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Originally Posted by mickjoebill
(Post 10295230)
Another incident where emergency locator beacons did not operate. mjb |
Originally Posted by mickjoebill
(Post 10295230)
Another incident where emergency locator beacons did not operate. mjb |
It’s OK to offer a hypothesis!
To those of you admonishing your colleagues for tossing around first-impressions while “bodies are still warm,” THAT’S WHAT WE DO! WE’RE PILOTS! This thread is not a news organization, it’s a crowded pub. It’s OK to put your bets on the table about what happened before the investigation has even begun, much less ended. Maybe someone should start a different thread titled “Indonesia 737 Max crash: FACTS ONLY.” And stay there. And wait. |
Originally Posted by Birdstrike737
(Post 10295254)
To those of you admonishing your colleagues for tossing around first-impressions while “bodies are still warm,” THAT’S WHAT WE DO! WE’RE PILOTS! This thread is not a news organization, it’s a crowded pub. It’s OK to put your bets on the table about what happened before the investigation has even begun, much less ended. I don't disagree with you on the larger principle, that it's natural and reasonable to speculate on what might have been involved. I do however, object to the bigots who, on the basis virtually no information at all, beyond "airplane lost control and crashed" have immediately leaped to the conclusion that the crash is certainly the result of the incompetency of the aircrew, simply because of their assumed ethnicity. |
That drop at the end is fairly rapid. 30k ft per minute fall. After maintaining whilst a still fairly rough attempt at level flight, It’s like they lost the fin or something. Elevator/Fin related? |
Originally Posted by A Squared
(Post 10295259)
I don't disagree with you on the larger principle, that it's natural and reasonable to speculate on what might have been involved. I do however, object to the bigots who, on the basis virtually no information at all, beyond "airplane lost control and crashed" have immediately leaped to the conclusion that the crash is certainly the result of the incompetency of the aircrew, simply because of their assumed ethnicity.
One can fly from one end of the "known" UK to t'other in just over twice the length of the projected flight time for JT610. And with jolly fellows of the right ethnicity. Shall we drop into Cardiff or Manchester chaps, a bit of vibration. gg |
Originally Posted by Birdstrike737
(Post 10295254)
To those of you admonishing your colleagues for tossing around first-impressions while “bodies are still warm,” THAT’S WHAT WE DO! WE’RE PILOTS! This thread is not a news organization, it’s a crowded pub. It’s OK to put your bets on the table about what happened before the investigation has even begun, much less ended. Maybe someone should start a different thread titled “Indonesia 737 Max crash: FACTS ONLY.” And stay there. And wait. |
Lion and Malindo
Very sad and prayers and thoughts to families. But I am not surprised. Lion air and that other dreadful airline called Malindo should be investigated for safety issues.
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Just heard From a Indonesian pilot who is in the know, highly suspected it was unreliable airspeed and unusual attitude .... |
Originally Posted by Birdstrike737
(Post 10295254)
To those of you admonishing your colleagues for tossing around first-impressions while “bodies are still warm,” THAT’S WHAT WE DO! WE’RE PILOTS! This thread is not a news organization, it’s a crowded pub. It’s OK to put your bets on the table about what happened before the investigation has even begun, much less ended. Maybe someone should start a different thread titled “Indonesia 737 Max crash: FACTS ONLY.” And stay there. And wait. |
Pitot covers still installed? |
Hello Captain . . .
Originally Posted by A Squared
(Post 10295259)
I don't disagree with you on the larger principle, that it's natural and reasonable to speculate on what might have been involved. I do however, object to the bigots who, on the basis virtually no information at all, beyond "airplane lost control and crashed" have immediately leaped to the conclusion that the crash is certainly the result of the incompetency of the aircrew, simply because of their assumed ethnicity.
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Reader comment on Avherald says the aircraft had been snagged the day before for unreliable airspeed and alt disagree.
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The same aircraft apparently had an unreliable speed issue on the previous flight from Bali to Jakarta last night. This was reported by the pilots according to Bloomberg.
FR24 data from that flight shows the aircraft enters a descent after takeoff, with increasing speed, similar to the event which happened on this flight at approximately 2,000ft. However on the DPS-CGK flight it happened at around 5,500ft. 14:25:21 - 5,500ft - 282kt 14:25:48 - 4,625ft - 324kt 14:26:13 - 5,400ft - 303kt 14:26:25 - 6,300ft - 276kt 14:26:37 - 6,600ft - 265kt 14:26:49 - 7,400ft - 247kt https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....f805739212.jpg Suggests around 2,000fpm descent rate with 42kt speed gain, followed by 3,000fpm climb losing 77kt. That's not a normal climb profile so something went wrong here, assuming the ADS data is accurate. |
Originally Posted by StormyKnight
(Post 10295180)
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1bc9efc3a4.gif
Comparison of the flight the day before. Note the Different Aircraft registrations. Bottom Graph 27/10/2018 B738 PK-LPQTop Graph 28/10/2018 B738M PK-LQP Looks like a significant upset very shortly after take-off. Altitude dropped around the 2 minute mark with a subsequent increase in air speed. Source: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/f...jt610#1e5ff318 The Pilots appear to be struggling to maintain a steady altitude for the whole 10 minutes of the flight. What happened between 22.53. and 23.23. gg |
Is it possible the ADS data is corrupted by unreliable speed data - which source does it use.
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Originally Posted by Polska
(Post 10295304)
Pitot covers still installed? I wonder where the flightradar data transmitted from the plane comes from, i.e. which pitot tibe or which flight computer? Is it the one currently selected as the main by the pilots? If just on pitot was faulty, airspeed & stick shaker warnings will operate until it is determined which one needs to be disabled. This should leave two to work with. How quickly the faulty one can be determined is an interesting question. I hope the pilot in control was flying the plane rather than trying to diagnose the issue. |
Originally Posted by logansi
(Post 10295317)
Is it possible the ADS data is corrupted by unreliable speed data - which source does it use.
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Indonesia travel advice Monday, 29 October 2018 Latest update Following the fatal crash of a Lion Air plane on 29 October 2018, Australian government officials and contractors have been instructed not to fly on Lion Air. This decision will be reviewed when the findings of the crash investigation are clear (see Local travel). ....... |
The last line of this article in Japanese quotes Indonesian aviation sources saying that the pilot(s) requested a return to Jakarta before the aircraft disappeared.
189?????????????? ??????????????????20?????????AFPBB News 同機はレーダーから消える前に、ジャカルタへの帰還の許可を求めていたとしている。(c)AFP "This same aircraft was requesting permission to return to Jakarta before it disappeared from radar." |
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