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-   -   Indonesian aircraft missing off Jakarta (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/614857-indonesian-aircraft-missing-off-jakarta.html)

YeahYeah 14th Jan 2019 04:56

When I first read the above article, it was mentioned that it was recovered 8 metres below the seafloor. Huh? I thought something was lost in translation. How could it have ever been found under the sea bed. I just read the Associated Press account, and indeed, it was recovered under 8 metres of sea bed mud.
Congratulations indeed to the Navy divers, working in these conditions!

rog747 14th Jan 2019 06:40

one bit of good news in a very sad story

atakacs 14th Jan 2019 07:03


Originally Posted by Back door (Post 10359991)
I am hoping the long salt water immersion didn't ruin the recording(s) and we get to see the transcripts in a timely manner.
Certainly think this will put the spotlight on the failing(s) in this devastating and sad accident.

Although we know that the Indonesian inquiry is pretty "leaky" there is no reason why transcripts should be put into the public in a "timely manner".
Congrats to the divers for what seems to be a fairly complex recovery. Details would be indeed most interesting.

Volume 15th Jan 2019 06:52


there is no reason why transcripts should be put into the public in a "timely manner".
ICAO Annex 13 might be a good reason... The next intermediate report should at least contain the main aspects of the CVR recordings, if not a transcript of the most important conversation.
It is not unusual to publish the raw transscript pretty quickly, often minus the famous last words which do no longer contribute to understanding the accident.

Derfred 15th Jan 2019 09:40



A KNKT source, speaking on condition of anonymity, told Reuters the team will have seven days using the ship KRI Spica to find the CVR..."

The National Transportation Safety Committee (NTSC) collaborates with the Navy's Hydrographic and Oceanographic Center (Pushidrosal) to return to search for cockpit voice recorders Lion Air JT-610 PK-LQP (CVR) which crashed in Tanjung Karawang waters some time ago.

Pushidrosal deployed KRI Spica-934 which departed from the Jakarta International Container Terminal (JICT) Pier 2, Tanjung Priok Port, Tuesday (1/8).
Wow, that’s amazing. They’ve been searching for nearly 3 months and this mob found it in a week! Well done!

Luc Lion 15th Jan 2019 10:24

Apologies if this has already been posted above ; I found nothing through a quick search.
Here is the report on a Falcon 7X serious incident in May 2011.
https://www.bea.aero/uploads/tx_elyd...0525.en_01.pdf

I think that the serious incident of HB-JFN shares several commonalities with the Lion Air accident:
1. In both cases, an uncommanded movement of the THS has led to a catastrophic situation.
2. In both cases, the uncommanded movement has been caused by the failure of a single element in an automation system controlling the THS.
3. In both cases, the automation system was a new design or a redesign.

The report does a good job of showing that the combination of 14 CFR 25.671 and 14 CFR 25.1309 implies that an automation system that has the potential of commanding a THS runaway should be designed as fail-safe, which implies immunity to single element failure, or should provide appropriate warning to alert the crew of the unsafe operating situation. The warnings must be designed to minimize crew errors which could create additional hazards.
That was not adhered to by the Falcon 7X at the time of the serious incident and, obviously, also by the B737 Max at present time.

The report does also a good job of showing that the non-compliance to certification specifications was partially caused by a botched risk analysis process and that the risk analysis failure has systemic causes.
I wouldn't be surprised if similar risk analysis failures would be found at Boeing in the context of the Lion Air accident investigation.

Another thing I noticed in the HB-JFN incident report is that one of the first reactions of Dassault had been to add a button in the cockpit that disables the auto-trim system and enables the electric trim push buttons available to the pilots.

Luc

VH DSJ 20th Jan 2019 01:16

Lion Air JT610 PK-LQP CVR has been successfully downloaded
 
Avherald is reporting that the Indonesian NTSC (KNKT) has successfully downloaded the CVR with over 2 hours of audio in good condition. It is currently being transcribed. Hopefully it will soon be made public or be leaked out on social or mainstream media.

(Note to mods: I can't post on the previous thread of this accident because it is locked.)

TowerDog 20th Jan 2019 02:50


Originally Posted by VH DSJ (Post 10365286)
Avherald is reporting that the Indonesian NTSC (KNKT) has successfully downloaded the CVR with over 2 hours of audio in good condition. It is currently being transcribed. Hopefully it will soon be made public or be leaked out on social or mainstream media.

(Note to mods: I can't post on the previous thread of this accident because it is locked.)

Hopefully it will soon be made public? :sad:

aterpster 27th Jan 2019 13:57

Lion Air CVR Not Until Final Report
 
We'll have to wait until the final report:

https://tinyurl.com/yb66gajt

Asturias56 27th Jan 2019 15:54

Sounds like sense for once - it'll save 70000 posts on here

Machinbird 27th Jan 2019 16:55


Originally Posted by Reuters
The recording needs to be filtered first due to “background sounds” hindering the transcription, said Soerjanto Tjahjono, the chief of the transportation safety committee (KNKT).“It might take one or two weeks because it was noisy inside (the cockpit),” he told Reuters.

Those stick shakers can be rather noisy.:{ It was likely very hard to communicate in that cockpit as well.

Octane 3rd Feb 2019 14:16

Lion Air accident - New York Times
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/03/w...gtype=Homepage

lomapaseo 3rd Feb 2019 15:18

yet another speculation to capture readership.

jimtx 3rd Feb 2019 15:28

It would be interesting to know how Brazilian carrier Goa trains it's pilots on MCAS. I seem to recall it being a low level item requiring CBT or something like that.

Roger_Murdock 3rd Feb 2019 15:57


Originally Posted by lomapaseo (Post 10379135)
yet another speculation to capture readership.

What exactly do you take issue with in the article? It seems to be a good factual summary for a general public audience of the part of the investigation focusing on MCAS. It does not assign blame or make final conclusions about the accident.

Carbon Bootprint 3rd Feb 2019 16:02


Originally Posted by lomapaseo (Post 10379135)
yet another speculation to capture readership.

If it was the New York Post, I might agree without further question. But why do you say this?

I seldom agree with the Times on politics, but when they want to do some serious reporting they're generally amongst the best. Is there anything here that hasn't already been mentioned and/or supported in the main LionAir crash thread? If so, can you enlighten us?

(OK, I see Mr. Murdock has similar concerns but managed to slip in ahead of me.)

Carbon Bootprint 3rd Feb 2019 16:08


Originally Posted by jimtx (Post 10379145)
It would be interesting to know how Brazilian carrier Goa trains it's pilots on MCAS. I seem to recall it being a low level item requiring CBT or something like that.

Are you talking about GOL? Goa is a Portuguese enclave in India, but I'm not familiar with them as a Brazilian operator.

jimtx 3rd Feb 2019 16:09


Originally Posted by Carbon Bootprint (Post 10379177)
Are you talking about GOL? Goa is a Portuguese enclave in India, but I'm not familiar with them as a Brazilian operator.

Yep, GOL, brainfart.

Super VC-10 25th Oct 2019 14:27

Lion Air Flight 610 - Final Report published
 
The original thread is closed.

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/...f-jakarta.html

The KNKT have released their final report into the accident.

http://knkt.dephub.go.id/knkt/ntsc_a...l%20Report.pdf

shimin 25th Oct 2019 14:38

Scare factor should be taken into account in future system design and evaluation。


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