Lufthansa Shuts Down Super Star Project – March 15, 2018
 

Well this takes the cake.

Lufthansa Board of Directors has decided to pull the plug on the Super Star (L1649A) project in Auburn, Maine. The restoration was begun in 2008 and, after spending a reported $200M on the project, the board has made the misguided decision to end the project, which was nearing completion.

Full article here.

Constellation News

$200 mio ? Wow that's quite a budget... Was there anything special about that specific airframe? I am pretty sure that one can get a fly worthy Connie for much less...

Just realized it was a L-1649A Starliner (the last evolution and indeed rare).

Still 200 mio...

Hope someone else takes it on.

Knowing Lufthansa, they will make sure it is prepared for storage properly so that the next person can continue where they left off but the cost of actually storing the plane would be high. Hopefully it doesn't get put outside when the rent-cheque doesn't come on time!

Anilv

Do you have a link to any official news?

I'm almost sure there's a Constellation in the Science Museum Wroughton outpost.

Yes, as I posted previously in the other LH Connie thread:

Lufthansa's reveals the cost of trying to restore their Lockheed Starliner
 

Sounded simple, buy three old Starliners ( Connies), use them to restore one and then fly it to Europe and operate it as a celebration of their Super Star airliners they once operated... Project started 2007...Project cancelled in 2018, dismantled and brought to Germany meaning it will never fly again..

Total cost all in for this failed restoration?

150 MILLION Euro's !!!!!!!!!

Admittedly not all of their money, but 150 MILLION ????

https://www.aerotelegraph.com/en/fai...-million-euros

Wow

Interesting, only on the English Site of aero not on the German Site.

Oh please, this is a professional pilots forum..

It's about ‘professional pilots’ exchanging news, comments and other such offerings that affect our professional life’s in what right now is a very nervous industry..

Or have I got it completely wrong?

Ad..

Might be better to use one of the existing threads on PPRuNe rather than start a new one:

Lufthansa pulls the plug on their Super Star

Lufthansa L-1649A "Super Star" Project Alive and Well

Lufthansa Shuts Down Super Star Project – March 15, 2018

1 x Engineer/Year = EUR 0.2M (Cost, not salary)
5 x Engineer /Year = EUR 1.0M
50 x Engineers, various hangers on/Year = EUR 10M
11 years x EUR 10M = EUR 110M
Buy some aircraft and spares = EUR 20M
Do some travel and schmoozing = EUR 20M

All made up of course, but it doesn't take much to get to a number of that magnitude.

The Idea was to use it for carrying fare paying passengers..

"Now Lufthansa CEO Carsten Spohr answered a question to the cost at the Group’s General Meeting on Tuesday (May, 5): «The total cost of the project from 2007 to 2019, after we have stopped the project and brought the aircraft back to Bremen, is 150 million euros.» A large part of this, however, had been borne by external donors and sponsors."

So where exactly is the problem .. ?

The fundamental problem is they tried to recreate a 1940’s design to meet 2010 certification standards. Everything was the gold plated over the top and over thought, like deciding that cabin doors had to have certified slides, which meant a huge amount of engineering and certification work to incorporate a system never envisioned for this class of aircraft

Also virtually every piece in was tested and tested until it failed some sort of inspection, and then since there are virtually no certified spares had to be manufactured from scratch at ridiculous cost. Everyone involved had never worked on anything that wasn’t factory new from Airbus and did not have a clue how to return a 75 year old big piston pounder to safe limited service.

They would have been far better to engage one of the well respected US restoration firms to do all the work. They would have spent much less and have an iconic flying aircraft......the whole thing is very sad.

Indeed very sad.

Am I correct that there are no more fly worthy Connies?

There are several airworthy Connies but the get by barely as money and knowledge are in short supply. Gooogle Constellation Survivors for a point of reference.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...QA37Dc0nWMt9-3

It did not help that the Lufty boys demended a gold plated replica of the 1649A

Columbine 11
 

By coincidence I’ve just been reading a US publication in which it details the ongoing restoration to flying condition of Lockheed VC-121 48-610 Columbine 11 owned by Karl Stoltzfus the founder of Dynamic Aviation, Bridgewater, Virginia. The aircraft was previously stored until 2016 at Marana Regional Airport, Az. and had been in danger of scrapping.

The completely new digital flightdeck must have absorbed a significant stack of cash as well. The plan looked fantastic, a shame that it didn't work out as it would have been great.

Like this for example.

From the interesting linked document

That glass cockpit was / is nothing short of incredible. To be honest it would seem that the project - however crazy - was well underway. What will they do with it ?

I don't know about the legal ramifications, but if I'd donated a big bag of money that was apparently squandered, I'd want the money back...
We're talking donors, not venture capital...

That's an interesting point...

Many moons ago when I worked at Lockheed Aircraft Service at JFK we serviced those Lufthansa L-1649's. Later we also worked them for Transatlantica Argentina which had bought them, I believe, from TWA. Air France had the parking spots right outside our line shack door at the International Arrivals Building (IAB) so I saw a lot of the L-1649's.
The "Super Star" was a magnificent looking aircraft with its slender 150-ft wing married to the graceful Constellation fuselage. It had a special model of the TC-18 engine with an increased reduction gear ratio but the engine installation and cowling were pretty much right out of the L-1049. Prop was wider chord and originally had hollow aluminum blades. These were changed to solid dural when one of the Air France planes came in with the welded leading edge seam split and stuffing hanging out.
Restoring the old bird was always going to be difficult. There were lots of L-1049's built in civil and military versions but only a few (44) of the Super Stars. Systems were completely different, It had a dual 3000 PSI hydraulic system for example in place of the 1700 PSI of all the other Connies. So even with two spare aircraft to rob from, parts were going to be near impossible to find. It is one thing to fabricate sheet metal parts but flight control components and the like would be like Hen's teeth. There must also have been a deal of difficulty in trying to shoe-horn a glass cockpits into that cramped Connie cockpit.
Still, it was a magnificent effort and I surely hope the aircraft will be reassembled for display if nothing else. The last efforts of Lockheed and Douglas in piston airliners were great looking aircraft and I am proud to have worked on them.

There's a similar example in Australia restored to airworthy condition - I've seen it fly at an air show - by the Historical Aircraft Restoration Society: https://hars.org.au/lockheed-c-121c-...constellation/
Maybe Lufthansa should give HARS theirs to fix?

The HARS Connie was in the air yesterday as the first aircraft to take off and land on the newly resurfaced main runway of Shellharbour Airport. ( Home base).

Lufthansa's problem was that they were far from completion and the FAA had signaled to not just rubber stamp the new glass cockpit and modifications. And the concept how to operate that airplane later on was not clear. Going transatlantic commercial IFR with some VIP cabin and bar? For what reason? It had to be stopped. They should have rebuilt their Ju 52 instead.

Hmmm, confuses me a bit as the LH JU 52 has been operational under the Berlin Stiftung for decades and flying around.

Had the pleasure of taking a JU 52 flight with my wife and friends a few years back and see it flying around my neighbourhood frequently in the summer.

It had been grounded since the swiss Ju accident in Switzerland with engine mount fatigue or similar and needs some major structural overhaul itself it seems. Funding has been put on hold as well.

In addition the props used synchro phase much like the L188 to reduce the harmonics and make for a quieter cabin.

Correct, has been grounded since January 2019 and will go in a museum.
I was not aware.

Thank you for the correction @less hair. .

With 100LL prices close to 7 Euro a gallon I can not see how to operate that 4 engine piston plane anywhere in Europe. Transatlantik fuel cost for a Concorde would be cheaper than for that bird. Certification of a 737 MAX would be a breeze compared to a new Cert. of a Connie.

There was a major difference between the Berlin Stiftung JU52 and the Connie project . the JU 52 ops was run by volunteers ( LH employees and crews on their free time ) ,operated for sightseeing , VFR only .
The aircraft was also not an original Ju42 as those flown in Switzerland or South Africa. It had a new modern cockpit and P& W engines .
While the Swiss JU52 accident precipitated the fate of the Ju52 ,it was not the only reason they stopped it as was explained to the staff at the time , although the full reasons were never mentioned.

The Connie project on the other hand was aimed at running commercial ops IFR across the Atlantic and therefore modifying the aircraft to modern safety standards.
The modernization was part of the plan. The complications , delays and costs that arose in doing it were not ,

In any case if they had continued, this Corona crisis would have most probably ended the project as well.

Thanks for that document, I knew that the cockpit was partially funded by the Honeywell donation but would still incur large costs in installation and implementation. This makes it a lot clearer.
I think that somehow the Ju52 accident in Switzerland will have had a significant impact on this project. It certainly showed that there is a risk in flying in an old aircraft and it wouldn't surprise me that the public perception of this will have impacted the viability of a project such as the Starliner. If the aircraft ends up in a museum, there will still be a very nice Starliner preserved for us to drool over. That's better than the airframe sitting outside somewhere, rotting away.
There is also the Breitling Constallation, that has been sold to a German foundation which plans to get it flying again.

For my comment I might be tared and feathered by some, but these old aircraft belong, nicely preserved, to a museum. You can not bring back the atmoshere and the spirit of the 50´s ( or even earlier ). In my younger years I travelled on all Douglas Props, except for DC 1,2, and 5 ), on Super Constellations and on the Convair Twins, flying, i.e. air travel in these days was a completely different experience. I have seen D-AQUI very frequently, also had a ride on " Tante Ju ", the " shell " being Junkers, but otherwise it was a high tech aircraft, the interior brand new with leather seats, etc.. I have spent a great deal of my life travelling by air, and worked in the airline business much of my working life, I always felt that an aircraft has had its life when taken out of service, and that, very often, for good reasons. My love for aviation is still great, but for the sake of air safety, museums are the best option.

I agree. They have to be modified too much in order to keep them airworthy. Fur current needs newly built airplanes like those US made Me 262 or the Swiss made Junkers F 13 will do. Plus maybe a Basler BT-67 or two for scenic tourist flights and similar. Even Mustangs and Stearmans can be made new.

The originals are too precious and belong under some roof. No offense but I'd even put the Lancaster into some museum to keep and protect this original forever. The days of expendable cheapo war surplus WW II planes are long gone.

WARNING-unpopular opinion to follow:

It's approaching heresy to put modern cockpit technology in a rare classic airplane like this one. It should be restored to original cockpit instrumentation ( or as closely as parts availability allows). If newer tech is needed to get it from Pt. A to Pt. B, some add-on/plug-ins can be used to get there. It won't be in regular service shooting Cat 3 approaches. :*

Not unpopular with me, I agree totally.

I agree with your unpopular opinion, provided that the planned operation supports it. As Lufthansa was planning to operate this Starliner as an airliner I can see why they went for the flightdeck upgrade. Have a look at the two Martin Mars at Sproat Lake, one of them has had a significant flight deck upgrade which is definitively not in keeping with the age of the type, but it did enable the aircraft to be operated for its purpose as a firebomber and probably made it somewhat safer to operate as well.