Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 10384496)
I don't think (in)ability to identify a failed engine was a factor in the BA38 accident.
"Hey, I think both engines have flamed out" "IDENTIFY" " Both engines" *VERIFY" (pulls both throttles back to flight idle) "Yep, it's both of them" |
Sorry to be anal about this, but the BA38 engines didn't "fail" - they were both running above idle and producing thrust up to the point when they hit the ground. However the ice restriction in the fuel/oil heat exchanger meant that when they throttled up, the engines couldn't respond because the ice restriction wouldn't permit increased fuel flow.
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Originally Posted by tdracer
(Post 10385469)
Sorry to be anal about this, but the BA38 engines didn't "fail" - they were both running above idle and producing thrust up to the point when they hit the ground. However the ice restriction in the fuel/oil heat exchanger meant that when they throttled up, the engines couldn't respond because the ice restriction wouldn't permit increased fuel flow.
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Originally Posted by Shackeng
(Post 10385693)
Precisely why I suggest 'proving' engines while still at a safe height before the approach, under all conditions, after failure or not, is a sound idea. Of course this normally happens at busy airports anyway, but not always, and it may be very satisfying for a pilot to arrange their approach and landing such that the first application of power required after TOD is at the flare.
It really is a bad day out if it happens, and cool headed judgement, calm demeanour and logic are key to successful outcomes in many cases. Like nearly everyone else here, I just hope I don't get tested on this for real. A friend recently did and passed with honours. |
Originally Posted by Small cog
(Post 10385704)
Your not familiar with normal ops into an airport or stabilised approach requirements then? |
That was an Exapt, traveling as passenger that saved the day and not the crew of that flight.
Stand by for more detail as truth is surfacing. |
Dave,
There are a lot missing from this report. It was an Expat traveling as a passenger that see aircraft has lost its aerodynamic and falling from sky! He has written 4 to 5 pages of report from the time that he has gone to the cockpit and "saved the day". stand by for more detail of his reports and other issues that this company management taking this company down the tube. |
Originally Posted by climb350
(Post 10558347)
That was an Exapt, traveling as passenger that saved the day and not the crew of that flight.
Stand by for more detail as truth is surfacing. how did a dyslexic EXPAT save the day...please tell |
Originally Posted by tdracer
(Post 10385469)
Sorry to be anal about this, but the BA38 engines didn't "fail" - they were both running above idle and producing thrust up to the point when they hit the ground. However the ice restriction in the fuel/oil heat exchanger meant that when they throttled up, the engines couldn't respond because the ice restriction wouldn't permit increased fuel flow.
On GoAir Flight 338 DEL to BOM with VT-GOS. There is a lot missing from the truth. That was an Expat that was traveling as a passenger in that flight that saved the day. The truth is hidden but it is surfacing shortly. LOL There are so much info missing that you would say WOW. |
Originally Posted by Check Airman
(Post 10381931)
I like your idea, but this manufacturer isn't big on tactile feedback.
I'm just puzzled why they set the operating engine to idle in the attempt to restart the good engine. Keep digging for truth and eventually you will get it in this case. There are more truth to this incident that would of be defiant was accident with lost of one aircraft and 164 sole which turned around by an Expat who was a passenger in that flight and "saved the day". Note, Crew did two attempt to restart the Healthy Eng Number 1 Eng) but unsuccessful. It was the expat that restart the Eng number one(Healthy Eng) then the captain of the flight G8-338 requested and ask Expat " Okay I want to shut down number Two Eng now"? Expat by grading the center thrust lever and after pushing Captains hand away, advice him that "The only time he is going to allow him to shut down any Eng is on the Ground after parking brake set". |
Originally Posted by dixi188
(Post 9810557)
If an engine is not on fire and not shaking itself to pieces then why shut it down at all?
If it's giving elec. and hyd. power and can be kept below vibration rpm, keep it running. |
Originally Posted by AviatorDave
(Post 10558563)
And if the so treated engine decides to go really bust after a while (after all, there was some damage to the engine in the first place), you may end up in a much worse situation than if you had shut it down right away. There is quite a bit of historical experience to argue against this. Nobody is telling you what to do other than your operating manuals. But given that there is no nacelle fire warning bells I would advise you to take your time about turning off the the fuel to an engine. Sure pull it back to idle and then monitor the gages if you want. There are lots of in-service test points that say the worst you can do is melt the turbine blades and scrap out a compressor with no significant threat to continued safe flight.on the remaining engines |
Originally Posted by FlightDetent
(Post 9831598)
Picked an OEI technique some time ago in the SIM from a colleague. One was quite ashamed of not being trained to do so earlier, nor devising it on my own.
Rush is the ultimate killer. Tenerife, Spanair, Taipei, sadly many others. Drives me nuts in the sim when my partner slams the thrust lever for the "failed" engine closed. Even worse on Boeing types where PNF moves thrust levers and the manufacturer insists on dealing with serious engine malfunctions from memory. |
Just to clear my own mind. The incident happened at 115 kts, and the FO asked whether the Capt wanted to reject when the IAS was 129 kts. V1 was 146 kts, ASDA is 2813m. The Capt didn't reject because he wasn't certain he could stop in the remaining runway?
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Alpha Floor
Sorry for slight drift here but I’m astounded by the number of incidents of non-normal situations ending up in Aloha Floor on the Bus.
Airbus family FBW logic is great technology but it demonstrates the less than optimal use of automation/task fixation in these events. There-but by the grace of god do I.... |
This incident is very poor example of flying. The Capt had 12000 hrs on type. Thirty knots before V1 they had bird hit on the right engine. The rookie copilot suggested reject which the Capt decided to investigate in the air. The engine was vibrating badly. The No2 engine vibration monitor was showing excessive reading of N1,which the copilot read as NO1 engine. And the Capt of total 20000hrs didn't bother to check and shut down No.1. During restart at 2000ft thanks to Airbus they got alpha floor in Boeing they would be dead. Managed to restart asked for immediate Landing without much preparation. When vectored made a meal of it had to goround and landed safely if you can call that second time around. Some guardian angel who's duty time was not over must have taken mercy.
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Originally Posted by Herod
(Post 10558757)
Just to clear my own mind. The incident happened at 115 kts, and the FO asked whether the Capt wanted to reject when the IAS was 129 kts. V1 was 146 kts, ASDA is 2813m. The Capt didn't reject because he wasn't certain he could stop in the remaining runway?
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Originally Posted by Fursty Ferret
(Post 10558649)
Even worse on Boeing types where PNF moves thrust levers and the manufacturer insists on dealing with serious engine malfunctions from memory.
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Originally Posted by Consol
(Post 10381250)
The incident report goes on to tell that the crew managed to alpha floor the aircraft during the restart phase. Not a great day's work by any measure.
It was the Expat, who saved the day and not the crew of that flight. Expat was as a passenger. The crew of that flight fail to restart the Eng number one after two attempt. It was the Expat who came in, from that point full power the Eng number 2 and restart the Eng number one,...……. it will more news will surface as you dig more to the incident. The report is hidden a lot. Dig and you will get to truth, Keep looking into it and you will be surprise !!! |
Originally Posted by ManaAdaSystem
(Post 10559453)
Boeing SOP has the PF move the thrust lever after confirmation from PNF. The Crew of this flight was so behind, so behind and lost in the cockpit to what is going on. It was the Expat that has gone in and saved the day. Keep digging and try to question of this incident. They are not telling the truth. |
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