IATA concerned about increase in problem passengers
 

So when they say. Are they talking about the vast majority of 23%, or the vast majority of all cases?

So what's the other 77% then?

As an organisation we have suffered from only a few disruptive passengers. They vary from drunks in the cheap seats to bolshy individuals in the front. Alchohol has been a factor in most of the cases and the very worst are groups who have had too much. The remainder were "difficult" people, the sort who will not take no for an answer, especially from a girl. Others had personal problems and one or two had psychological problems. And the rest, who knows.

The strangest thing is that when (if) the troublesome muppets face the authorities, rarely they do they think they have done anything wrong. They think you are over-reacting and they tell you that they were only having a bit of fun. And I can see why. Over the past few years we have put with this type of behaviour. Only when it is made totally clear such behaviour is not acceptable will things change. And that will take at least one generation to fix. Until then, my company will bounce these people off in ones and twos and the charter/LoCos will chuck them off in 10s and 20s.

Solutions: The threat of fines and imprisonment appear not to work. So something else is required. A good start would be a mandatory fine and imprisonment. Then full recovery of costs. Then a permanent passport ban would top it off nicely. For foreign nationals a lifetime exclusion would be imposed when they leave prison.

Not very progressive or left-wing I know, but their methods have been shown to be useless.

It might help if carriers started life bans for these idiots. Pooling of information would prevent them repeating on other carriers.

Piltdown Man, I'm not convinced that your solution would work either. Most of these offenders come to terms with what plonkers they were once sobered up. Punishment after the event is not preventative with the exception maybe of that particular person. The greatest problem is people simply not knowing to what extent drink will affect them. If they're in a group some will find themselves drinking well in excess simply trying to keep up with their less affected peers. Once they've crossed the line they are no longer aware of what they're doing or saying. The solution is not punishment but education and thus prevention. Yes, I agree, easier said than done.

I am not sure IATA are correct - what do they base this claim on?

I've seen assorted press releases by the media trying to stir this up into an industry wide issue. Almost every time the airlines say that it is a small - even rare - event.

I am absolutely certain airline staff are encouraged to report bad passengers (drunk / abuse / violence) back to the company. Based on so little information, as these incidents are rare, how can this claim be made.

Lets be honest: there is no serious problem with lots and lots of drunk or abusive air passengers, so there must be some other agenda.

Someone said above that these 'idiots' should be banned.

How can an airline ban someone when the problem does not really exist?!!

The problem is, in 99 out of 100 cases, alcohol. Some people just can't handle it and, I'm sorry to say, but the LCC world of today has brought some less desirables into the cabin, who wouldn't have had the opportunity before. It is, as good as always, males in the age 18-50, who've had a drink or two before leaving home, then a couple more in the bar and a swig off the something in the plastic bag on the way out to the gate.

This is where my staff meet them, and they've got a very, very difficult job on their hands. We hire and train them for their friendly and serviceminded personality, whilst trying to dress them up for the odd idiot passing their way. But it's service and friendly we're mostly looking for, the exact same thing psychopaths are looking for in a victim. And, yes, we do have to serve psychopaths; no booking machine are yet to ask 'are you a complete moron or suffering from any disturbing psychological trauma?'

We do our best to keep them off the aircraft, sometime to the physical or verbal detriment of our staff. It is, you understand, entirely their fault the aircraft left on-time and you didn't make it, because there were Jägerbombs on sale in the bar. We see the worst kind of verbal abuse, and on very rare occasions also violence. It must be a big man indeed, punching a 60kg, 160cm, girl out because she was doing her job.

We've also had our female staff stalked, including one particularly nasty person sneaking up on her back as she was walking down the pier, promising to do the nastiest of things to her, attempting to grab and chasing her into a toilet where he stood outside and basically promised to rape and kill her. That girl, by the way, is still receiving psychological help and is unlikely to return to work. Because a drunken passenger couldn't behave himself and threatened other passengers in the departure lounge, upon which he was denied boarding.

How to stop it? Only by making the rest of us 'suffer' for the actions of a, relative, few: By banning the sale and consumption of alcohol in airports and onboard commercial aircraft. It was possible with smoking, surely it's possible with alcohol as well.

As for duty-free booze: Can only be bought on arrival and never brought onboard an aircraft as carry-on.

SMT Member:

In the case of smoking the issue was second hand smoke, not disruptive passengers. That ban came in stages: first, the smoking and non-smoking sections, followed a few years later by a total ban.

Alcohol normally does not affect other passengers either medically or otherwise. The airlines, at least as a group, will not ban alcoholic beverages. It simply won't happen.

Just imaging the scene on first Long Haul airline to do it makes me wince......I guess would be fine for a hour or two and then ......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxvDCx-ILhk

I won't bore you with the detail, but I, and my fellow pax, endured a hen party going berserk at 36000 feet. EZY. Malaga to Glasgow. Emergency descent into Brest, at 10.30 at night. June this year. three carted off, eventually, by firemen and police. Not reported, as are a huge number of these incidents. A number of kids on the flight witnessing - One of our customers has taken unwell with a medical problem......-. It was truly disgraceful. You place the great unwashed into an aeroplane, get them drunk pre flight in the shopping malls, and what do you expect. This lot cannot behave out in the street on a Friday night, let alone travel....sorry. This is an ever growing issue, and it is NOT the airlines fault.

Don't know about you, but getting knocked out or requiring psychological help would certainly qualify as having been affected in my book, medically and otherwise.

The airlines, as a group, will do whatever their regulator tells them to do. Just like some airlines were never going to voluntarily ban smoking, but regulations eventually made them.

SMT Member:

That's exactly why I said "normally."

SMT Member has it right - remove alcohol from airports and aircraft. It's only there to subsidise airlines (and their passengers) who aren't prepared to pay "the going rate".

It has no place in safety conscious environment - and don't forget, "the safety of our passengers is our first priority". :ugh:

alcohol and altitude
 

Since increased altitude increases the effects of alcohol consumption I wonder if the pressure altitude inside modern airliners is different from previous generations of airliners?

I've been enjoying a glass of wine when I fly for almost two decades. I'd hate to see that privilege taken away because some people can't control themselves.

Dear oh Dear what's new here. Knackers and drink..........

I was on a Ryanair flight recently during which this guy (about 25) spent most of his time doing some kind of mad dance in the aisle punctuated by the occasional bit of loud "singing". He also hammered on the toilet door a couple of times "for a laugh". The FAs sidled past him and asked him to move aside for the trolley when they needed to pass him, and he complied readily enough, apart from that they and everyone else completely ignored him. Lunatic behavior completely normalised.

.......eventually he calmed down, stopped dancing and returned to the flightdeck.

Seriously though, an airport must be the only place you can get served a pint or two at 6am in the morning. And there in lies the problem.

"Alcohol normally does not affect other passengers either medically or otherwise. The airlines, at least as a group, will not ban alcoholic beverages. It simply won't happen."
So says Aterpster.
What if the inebriated Mr. ,Ms.or Mrs. attacks another passenger who ends up requiring hospital treatment. Would that not be classified as "affecting medically". What if the sozzled vomiting all over another passenger, would that not be classified as "no effect otherwise". Is it normal or abnormal for alcohol not to have an effect. I would say it would be abnormal for it not to have an effect. Some who have an enormous tolerance to its effects would just consume vast quantities to achieve its effects. Until of course they attain the ultimate goal of alcoholism.
Airlines will not ban alcohol, it will not happen ! Are you really so certain. What do you think the outcome will be when and not if, an airliner is downed as a result, direct or contributory, of drunk passenger(s). Should we wait and see until it happens, then sit back with a glass of wine in our hand and listen to the retinue of shrinks and chat about human factors and similar nonsense afterwards.

My nephew got a part time job at Weatherspoons, EGPF. His busiest shift? Early morning, 5-9. Extra staff required then. Who in their right mind, tanks up for a 7.00a.m flight? Plenty by the sounds of it. For what it's worth, my EZY story above. The prime culprit, the others all 14 of them, spent the entire flight, throwing up into sick bags, and threatening other passengers, was trying to kick the windows out. After full hyperventilation, she was administered oxygen, at my request, although frankly I would have hit her over the head with the canister, calmed down for ten minutes, then headbutted a cabin crew member. That's when we headed to Brest. No, sorry, it is just totally unacceptable. Oh, and had I decided to wade in, guess who's fault it would have been? Certainly not the customer with the medical problem.

'Normally' shouldn't really have any place in this industry, when the consequences could be dire.

What's the longest journey it's possible to make with the airlines? 36 hours all in? Shouldn't it be possible to go without a drink for such a, relatively, short time? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a glass of bubbly and a nice red with what passes for food on board, but it's a privilege which should merit serious consideration in this day and age.

Non-alcoholic wine?

I know that when I first tried it in the 1970s it was 'rubbish'.

Has it improved? (to the extent of being 'acceptable'?

I agree with prohibiting carry-on of 'duty free'.
The amount of flammable spirit being carried both ways surely constitutes a hazard?

Change the regulations to permit purchase after the flight (maybe with vouchers if necessary).
Allowing pax access to their own duty-free alcohol is madness IMO.

"duty free"...
 

Most of the destinations that cause us the most trouble, IBZ, PMI, ALC are within the EU, and so it is not duty free. In many cases it is more expensive than in your local shop. It is the mindset that says you need to buy a bottle of vodka for a 2 1/2 hour flight...

And out of 200+ pax, only a few will be a problem - why should the other 95% be denied a drink to start the holiday they may have been saving all year for?

Stronger penalties, the sale of only true duty-free, and the banning of airport shops selling miniatures - why would they do that? The airports and airport shops hold more responsibility here than the airlines...

HT - You are right, education has to be the answer. But how long do we have to wait? I'm sure there are cabin crew have sweats as soon as they see they are going to do a Friday night Corfu, Alicante, Ibiza etc. I'd hate to be in their position and I don't see why they or their fellow passengers should have to put up with the behaviour that we know will be exhibited on such flights.

A very public hard in-your-face reaction, imprisonment and a grotesque fine and subsequent destruction of that person's life will be a good lesson to others. We are not trying to educate the perpetrator; they are now a lost cause. We are trying to educate those who might misbehave in aircraft in the future.

they will just "pre-drink" at or before arriving at the airport. making airports and aircraft "dry" achieves nothing apart from making air travel more miserable than it already is.

standard routine: handcuffs, police, large fine, no fly list.

On the subject of 'no fly' listing, I wonder how the chap who was refused access to a flight from one of the Balearic Islands has got on (or off . . . )?

My experiences are from the "good old days," when I was flight crew on TWA 1964-90. Company policy was for the cabin crew to "pour generously" in First Class, but coach was purchase, limited to two little bottles, plus one wine at meal time. On International the boozed flowed in first class especially, and even in business class, but not in coach.

Never heard of a problem in those days, although I suppose there were some.

Since retirement, I have flown as a passenger a whole lot until perhaps 4 years ago. Again, I didn't see issues like described.

Personally, when I was on first class from JFK to MAD, or wherever, the fantastic meal service would have been dreadful without at least the generous pourings of fine wines.

I'm not so sure about that. If someone is already obviously drunk and/or obnoxious, they can be denied at checkin or security. You wouldn't be removing the problem, but you get to keep it on the ground. In the airport you have ready access to security and/or police - no more need to deal with it in the confined environment of an aircraft.

Australians are probably the worst, I've kicked of more Aussie's in the last 12 months than I ever did whilst in the U.K for 10 years. It's not just the drinking either, usually smoking and a new trend is mid flight fights.

Why don't airlines chase these clowns for costs? Had a idiot the other week who was on the verge of being kicked off, I reminded him that should I return back to the airport engineering will pass the bill on for overweight landing damage. He never said another word all flight. :ok:

SLF point of view. I'd want to buy before flying, but if it had to be retained by airport/airline staff for transport in the hold then perfect. One less thing to carry!

The airports are a big part of the problem. Barmen in the departure lounge bars are failing in their duty under licensing regulations to stop serving alcohol to people who've had enough. In theory they can lose their alcohol license on the spot. There's plenty of cops around, they must surely spot transgressions.

We have the laws necessary for dealing with the problem, they just need to be applied. New rules aren't going to help.

Drink. FLY. BEHAVE.
 

I enjoy a drink. I fly a lot. I behave. Had one bad experience with a bunch of golfers new orleans-Orlando. Swearing, consuming booze they brought with them. Disgusting.

Set a limit - say 35mg (same as driving limit).

If you test positive, you don't board and get a £500 fixed penalty and a 3 month passport ban, If you cause trouble onboard and test positive on arrival, you get a fixed penalty £500 and 3 month passport ban plus any additional charges.

It'll never happen because the profit made on alcohol sales outweighs the perceived risks, agree with station_calling, airport alcohol sales in the EU are often more expensive than supermarkets - What's the point?

Agree with Piltdown, you're not trying to educate the perpetrators, you're making anyone who follows think twice before getting on a plane pi$$ed.

Divert and ban the drunken brawlers - don't make everyone suffer because a few cheap women behave like boozed-up sluts. They can take the boat or train back to whichever hovel whence they came.

Alcohol on an empty stomach won't help - I see that ba are ditching free economy class food on flights of less than 5 hours from next year. Their solution is to sell you an expensive M&S sandwich - but they won't accept cash, unlike other low cost airlines. For that's what they've become now.

Come on guys, get with it.

Your typical hen/stag party starts off in the road transport to the airport. Beers, shots, bubbly.....and then they arrive at the airport. Somehow they keep it sensible through security, and then straight into the bar for another half a dozen before boarding.

Some of these parties are literally 'hammered' when walking up the steps.
Some friends of mine recently stayed up all night and THEN traveled to the airport for the flight. They all flew.......

This isn't an airline issue, it's a cultural issue that is not regulated while transiting through the airport. I honestly think banning alcohol on board would see a couple of extra 'downed' in the airport in readiness for the 1 hour hop to Prague.......

Tougher regulation at airports.......simple!

I don't believe that's the root problem. Although 99% of troublemakers may have been taking alcohol, that's always been there. What has changed in recent years is the ban on smoking, which can upset the addicts. Maybe they resort to alcohol in lieu, maybe they do so every day, but their bodies are unused to extended periods without smoking, and this is why the rise in trouble has coincided with the smoking ban. It would be good to know what proportion of troublemakers are smokers who are being prevented from having one for extended periods.

Seriously, are you surprised that some Muslims despise us?
That our "civilisation" only has fun when it's pissed,
As a lifelong drinker but never troublesome...
We should stop looking down on others.
To be honest, our way is repulsive...
Let's stop treating it as normal.

Whilst we have been discussing the semantics of alcohol fuelled passengers, yet another serious incident was about to take place. It happened yesterday on Ryan Air Flight Edinburgh to Alicante. During the altercation a 10 year old child was struck in the head by a flying bottle of wine.
The full article may be accessed at:

Drunken passengers arrested in Spain after causing mayhem in Ryanair jet - Travelandtourworld.comTravelandtourworld.com

On this occasion a child was hit in the head, just imagine what could have happened to this child. When will those in authority say enough is enough and ban alcohol before boarding and during flight.

Chronus

In my experience the vast vast majority of passengers on most flights behave themselves perfectly well despite having access to alcohol before and during the flight....

Before resorting to a blanket ban it might be better to look at which airlines are having these seemingly recurrent problems and why. Frankly if you deliberately aim to make money off the stag party market and similar demographic you'd be darned silly not to expect problems these days.

Reportedly a brawl involving two separate stag party groups, members of whom were "absolutely hammered" by the time they boarded.

Major fail by whoever handles RYR at EDI.

Cronus
 

I am in no way way condoning this behaviour - if they had been on my flight I would have been considering a divert and offload.

However, 1) I don't agree with blanket bans as 95% of the travelling public are decent people capable of making their own decisions and controlling their behaviour, and 2) again, I'm not belittling the incident", but a flying bottle of wine" gives rise to thoughts of a big glass bottle flying through the air - in this instance it would be a small 187ml plastic bottle. Still capable of causing injury I'm sure, but not quite worthy of the headline.

It is a select few few who need dealing with - why do want to legislate against the other 95% of human beings who are decent people?