Toxic fumes have not been discussed
 

What does surprises me is that so far, by following the thread, the possibility of incapacitation due to toxic fumes on the flight deck hasn't been considered or discussed.
I am -only- cabin crew, but as such flying the skies for two decades, so I do have some insight.

Fact is this:

http://avherald.com/h?article=434e753b/0019

was an A319 though, but nevertheless a very serious incident!

Per French interior minister, Bernard Cazeneuve, the plane’s cockpit voice recorder has been recovered. The data recorder has yet to be recovered.

In the experience of one Olivier Ferrante, a former crash investigator for the French government who now advises the European Commission in Brussels the eight minute descent, if verified, would be inconsistent with a mid-air upset scenario (such as AF447).

While the crash occurred in a remote mountainous area unreachable by land the French had a helicopter overhead shortly after 11 a.m. (local time) and cable dropped onto the crash scene two officers from the specialized mountain police force and a doctor.

@Navcant, Lots of people have been on the ground at the site, lowered from helicopters. They certainly could have hauled up a recorder, just as they presumably hauled up the personnel on the ground.

Whether the orange box was the FDR or CVR is unclear, although some coverage has suggested it's the CVR.

If you are flying level you fly 4 miles to cover 4 miles of ground. In climb or descent you have to fly more than 4 miles to cover 4 miles of ground.

So if you ground speed is the same (ignoring wind) you have higher airspeed in the climb or descent to maintain the same ground speed

FL 380
 

I'm curious about the aircraft Take Off Weight. It seems to me that FL 380 is quite a high flight level for an initial climb.
Anybody knows the maximum altitude at ISA +20?

Apart from winches, helicopters have been known to hover perhaps with one wheel touching, they are amazingly versatile.

No news or hints of ECAM or other relevant ACARS messages so far. Would decompression not scream some alarm?

Heading change
 

I had another look at this data which was posted earlier:

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2015/03/rapid%20descent.jpg

It shows that the descent phase started immediately after the completion of a heading change. Also, there is a vertical speed anomaly in the data that coincides with the start of the heading change.

I have read that this turn to 26 degrees heading was part of the flight plan, is that correct? Seems like quite a coincidence that the chain of events would start at the exact same time as the turn. Can anyone speculate how they might be connected?

This is a paraglider video with an approach to Mt. Tromas (crash site) from South. Y

You may imagine the tragic last seconds of the flight and the cul-de-sac the aircraft entered too low.

from minute 3.35 on:

https://vimeo.com/32227267

Clearly from a non pilot.

Temperature, pressure and thus density altitude all have a big effect in the airspeed/groundspeed relationship. At typical flight angles (even quite large ones) the angular differential is negligible and the above answer does not accurately respond to the question.

As of 18:00 today, the temperature was ISA -4. With a short flying time and 30 empty seats FL380 doesn't seem unreasonable. And anyway, an upset due weight/alt/temp would not have lost more than, perhaps 10 000'.

For those who say that it should be possible for pilots to don their masks in less than 5 seconds... How about in the event of a windscreen failure? Now you're trying to get that mask on with a massive headwind hitting you, extreme cold, everything blowing around the cockpit, possibly things frosting up from the temperature change... Even assuming that the mask isn't ripped out of your hand by the decompression, I don't think that anyone is going to get one on in 5 seconds.

Here is the Flight Plan.
 

(FPL-GWI18G-IS
-A320/M-SDE2E3FIRWXYZ/H
-LEBL0835
-N0426F300 DALIN UN870 DIBER/N0434F340 UN870 SOSUR/N0441F360 UN870 MAXIR UN853 BLONA/N0448F380 UN853 DIK/N0408F270 UN853 ARCKY UT853 IBESA T853 NOR T857 BIKMU BIKMU1G
-EDDL0140 EDDG
-EET/LECB0011 LFFF0100 LIMM0045 LSAS0056 EBUR0126 EDUU0125 EDVV0129 EDGG0132 REG/DAIPX PBN/B3B4C4D4O4 SEL/HLJK OPR/GWI DAT/VM DOF/150324 RVR/075 RMK/ACFT CERTIFIED NOISE STAGE 4 TCAS)

http://i60.tinypic.com/344p1cp.jpg

http://i57.tinypic.com/1ok6f7.jpg

Lasjayhawk. If you don't fly, please don't post.

In answer to the previous, once you are on an IAS descent (say from 30,000'), the TAS reduces with altitude.
At a steady 295 kt IAS, the TAS reduces from 460 kts at 30,000' down to 340 kts at 10,000'.
This reduction is (ground) speed is normal, and sort of indicates that the aircraft was following a normal Mach-then-IAS descent profile.

IAS .... indicated air speed
TAS ... true air speed (sort of a ground speed).

Reports that ATC had tried to make contact numerous times, and with no response had initiated the scrambling of a military jet to investigate

Question for Airbus pilots:

In a Boeing, a single big spin of the altitude window to initiate a descent from cruise altitude would never spin anywhere near 10000, let alone below. You end up needing to wind it down once established in your emergency descent.

Is this same for Airbus?

(Just thinking of the incapacitation issue)

You can select it to do 100ft per click or 1000ft per click.

In the Boeing you only have selections in hundreds of feet on the altitude select?
On the Airbus you can have hundreds OR thousands selected so a quick spin can do just that.

Well, the first thing which came into to my mind when I heard that the Airbus crashed after a high rate of descend from cruising altitude, was the crash of Air France Flight 447 back 2009, due to frozen pitot tubes/sensors. This seems to be still an issue, a Lufthansa crew reported a similar issue with an Airbus a few month ago. However since the crew was able to recover the aircraft and prevent a crash it wasn't reported on the mainstream media/news.

Air France Flight 447 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The A320 altitude selector has a toggle switch, that allows the pilot to select altitude in either 1000 feet or 100 feet amounts.

In most flight phases, it is positioned to 1000 foot selection mode.

GreyhoundMUC, you may have a point there. I agree that fumes intoxication could also be a cause for this crash, although with fumes and in a VHF environment, a mayday call would have been more probable.

Transsonic2000, the profiles are significantly dissimilar.
The AF 447 descended in a stall while this flight displays a ground track and speed indicating descent in forward flight nowhere near a stall airspeed.

Normally the altitude selector is set for 1000 ft scale over FL100 so once you turn and pull it it'll initiate a descent. The aircraft will go into Open Descent mode which basically means it'll keep a fixed IAS/Mach and descend with engines in idle.

The procedure calls for increasing speed and thus creating a high rate of descent and also using spd brakes if needed and if possible.

If they for some reason selected FL90 or similar and then became incapacitated they would have descended with a fairly fixed ROD to that level and afterwards the aircraft would have leveled off keeping the same speed...

Is the Airbus fitted with ADM ? in which case a descent would have been initiated

Let me correct my initial surmise that the initial impact was the rock face above. It looks more like the crest of the spur.

There seems little vegetation in large dark grey area where the spilled fuel was apparently consumed.

German news tonight reported that several Germanwings flights later cancelled because the crews refused to fly. Apparently they were not happy with the state of the aircraft. The plane that went down today is said to have been delayed due to a technical reason (not reported which) yesterday.

I think the hypothesis of an explosive decompression in witch the pilots did the first steps and somehow didn't put the masks or the masks didn't work is the more plausible.

The first rough procedures in case of emergency descend, after putting the masks on is:
- ALT turn (descend) and PULL
- HDG turn and PULL
- SPD PULL
(followed by speedbreaks and refinement of the knobs)

It would justify the steady descend and speed. But why didn't the heading change? And while the PF did this, the PNF should be setting 7700 and calling Mayday. Something more must've happened...

helicopter and landing
 

Uhhh ever hear of a harness and cable used for search and rescue ? works both ways :8

@Company_Man: see posts earlier. Just some minor issue it was grounded for. No need to speculate wildly.

Envelope Protection
 

Allow me a moments speculation with a purpose: Crew incapacitation after depressurization.
Airbus hypothesis of the late '70s was that machinery was able to provide 'protections' that would help avoid aerodynamic stalls and other 'edge of the envelope' flight conditions. These protections have undoubtedly contributed to the industry wide massive increase in safety we've enjoyed.
Today the Aircraft (a bunch of related, communicating systems) 'knows' the cabin is rapidly climbing, the crew hasn't touched anything on the MCP for many seconds, perhaps the Master Warning hasn't been acknowledged.
It also knows where the Terrain is, what the MSA is, and the direction to lower terrain. It's capable of maintaining a safe flying speed if thrust is set to idle (spoilers.. not yet in the FBW logic?)
My point is, extending the established protections this year we could create a "Hypoxia" protection where the aircraft could fly itself if necessary with an unconscious crew to a safe altitude, equalize the cabin and fly away from terrain conflicts. All without having to reach up and kill 2 ADIRUs..

Although I am not in the know, the answer seems fairly obvious - it slammed into the mountain at high velocity, according to various graphs posted in this thread which show a severe drop in altitude but almost no drop in speed.

Those aircraft broke up in flight which results in low speed impact with the ground. This aircraft impacted in one piece at high speed.

Ahem... all of them, really?
16 crashes over the last 13 months as per AVH.
7 events initiated during cruise (including one A/C shot down)
9 events initiated during T/O, Climb, Approach or Landing

Re crew unhappy with state of the aircraft - I heard this reported on the main news programme (Tagesschau), not Spiegel Online.

I've said it on page 4 and I'll say it again:-

Normal electrical power appears to have been working as the transponder and associated ADSB was on
No emergency 7700 set
No Mayday call
374 kts GS at impact suggests around 330 Kts IAS
3,500 fpm descent indicates an open descent with speedbrakes.

So, a decompression event occurred at FL380, the crew started the Aircraft down but then somehow ( Oxy system failed, injured etc ) became incapacitated and the Aircraft continued until it flew into the ground.

At a time when more flights are flown than ever before I don't see any increase in hypoxia related airline incidents. We've had Helios and Payne Stewart. That's about it. Kalitta had a near hit with a 747 a good few years back. Hypoxia is still the cause of very few accidents.

Direct track
 

The FPL published by Heathrowairport is consistent with the track on FR24.
It is interesting to observe the track on FR24 when the aircraft reaches the French coast. At that time the traffic is not important and I believe that the ATC gave a direct course as a shortcut. A classical way of control. The plane was on the UN870 between ROTIS and MAXIR at 380 and has likely received a direct course to OKTET or IRMAR (44.80 6.79 ). This is the latest waypoint of the French FIR. The direct course is a 25 degree course. If you draw a line from the position where the aircraft initiated a left turn you can easily see that. This track is exactly the one that brought the aircraft to the crash site. Shortly after initiating this left turn the aircraft started to descent but kept its initial heading until the end of the flight.

hypoxia
 

@INeedTheFull90 in the US we've had several high profile GA accidents attributed to Hypoxia in the last 12 months. It's getting attention from the FAA. GA manufacturers are implementing Hypoxia/Auto Descent modes..

AoA ?
 

A double AoA blocked probes ? OEB RED in place at the moment on this ...

I have not seen this mentioned before, so I'll just throw it out here

in 2010 there was an incident involving airbus 319, germanwings airlines.

On 19 December 2010 the Airbus A319 coming from Vienna, Austria, was on
approach to Köln/Bonn Airport, Germany. Turning on to the base leg the two pilots
noticed an abnormal smell. A short time later during intercept of the extended centre
line, both pilots noticed an adverse effect on their physical and cognitive
performance. They donned their oxygen masks and declared emergency. The Pilot in
Command (PIC) remained able to steer the airplane. The co-pilot felt he could no
longer perform his tasks in the cockpit without restrictions. After the landing and
having reached the parking position, both pilots sought medical treatment. Whereas
the PIC could resume his duties after four days, the co-pilot remained unfit to fly until
10 July 2011. The technical inspection of the aircraft did not reveal any indication of a
technical malfunction.

http://www.bfu-web.de/EN/Publication...ublicationFile