First picture of crash (unconfirmed) - Twitter
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Rescuers appear to have seen some movement in the debris.
Crash A320 : un possible survivant sur les lieux | La Provence |
Acc. to German news mag "Der Spiegel" the airframe had 58.300hrs/46.700 Landings.
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Plane disintegrated
Quote from above:
"Rescuers appear to have seen some movement in the debris. Crash A320 : un possible survivant sur les lieux | La Provence " If the plane has completely disintegrated as per twitter picture above, I do not see how anybody could have survived, maybe helicopter crew already on site as per official press release. |
It definitely hadn't just come off a C Check.
2015-03-24 4U9524 Dusseldorf (DUS) Barcelona (BCN) 06:45 AM CET 07:01 AM 08:55 AM CET Landed 08:57 AM 2015-03-23 2015-03-23 4U9515 Madrid (MAD) Dusseldorf (DUS) 20:05 PM CET 20:25 PM 22:30 PM CET Landed 22:28 PM 2015-03-23 4U9514 Dusseldorf (DUS) Madrid (MAD) 16:40 PM CET 16:51 PM 19:25 PM CET Landed 18:58 PM 2015-03-23 (GWI79H) 2015-03-22 4U9045 Berlin (TXL) Dusseldorf (DUS) 20:40 PM CET 20:57 PM 21:55 PM CET Landed 21:49 PM 2015-03-22 (GWI45X) 2015-03-22 4U9044 Dusseldorf (DUS) Berlin (TXL) 18:35 PM CET 19:02 PM 19:40 PM CET Landed 19:48 PM 2015-03-22 4U9465 London (LHR) Dusseldorf (DUS) 15:40 PM GMT 16:12 PM 18:00 PM CET Landed 18:03 PM |
Bodies have been observed...
A French deputy was on board an helicopter and made a testimony.
I hope that no precise pictures of what he has seen will be published. It was hard for him to speak and hard to hear. |
Last C Check in 2013
I do wish the Pres's and PM's would confine themselves to condolences and stay out of the "I am coordinating" grandstanding. They have experts already tasked for these incidents - let them do their jobs. Merkel is going to the site tomorrow to talk with the rescue teams. |
From Flightradar24.com - Live flight tracker! there is an ADS-B data file with 7909 data points available.
Final position is N44.234 E006.407 at 09:40:36Z, FL68, VS -3520 ft/min The data file needs to be filtered for several stations that deliver bad data etc. The best station is 1418 which sends consistent data which data is plotted below . There was no change of squawk (5512 all the time). FL380 was maintained for exactly 3 minutes before it was left again. The descent was initially shallow, it did not start abrupt. Here is a plot of Vertical rate and FL over Latitude. Track was 025° over the entire plot and GS was only slowly decreasing, therefore Latitude is almost proportional with time. Vertical speed is fluctuating quite significant. At the time of start of descent track changes 20 degrees to the left, but this seems to be in line with the flight path (same as day before). http://fs1.directupload.net/images/150324/yp6dhgdb.jpg |
Apparently, the crew was in contact with ATC during the decent up to FL60 when contact was lost. If that is the case, as reported by the Germanwings CEO, then the decent must have been in a control manner up to that level before a terrible event happened. Any info about the exchange with ATC?? |
I can't understand how an aircraft can decend so dramatically over 8 minutes with out ATC asking why or the pilot contacting ATC stating why.
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Daz211
..I would bet my last buck the controller WAS asking and ( if neccessary) moving other traffic out of the way. WHETHER the crew was able to respond is the more pertinent question. From what I have read here it would appear they weren't. |
I can't understand how an aircraft can decend so dramatically over 8 minutes with out ATC asking why or the pilot contacting ATC stating why. We do know that ATC put out a request for sightings to other aircraft in the area, which suggests there was no dialogue between ATC and the aircraft during the descent. |
Apologies; I have no charts for this area, but what is the MSA for the crash site? It would seem odd if it was a controlled descent to below MSA. Sorry if this has been asked & answered.
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No big parts on this and at photos from previous link (contrary to what was said at the first two pages).
and the Sukhoi crash @ Mount Salak. |
New Picture of fuselage on left hand side
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'Sixteen schoolchildren' on plane
Sixteen schoolchildren and two teachers are believed to have been on the aircraft, a spokeswoman for the German town of Haltern am See has said. "We don't have any official confirmation yet," she added. Local media reports (in German) that the children are from the Joseph Koenig school. It says the building has been closed and students sent home. |
Hard to imagine the debris field would be a wide as it shows in posts 203 and 205 if the flight tracker in post 197 is accurate.
Even with the rough terrain the VS suggests that there would be more big sections. |
John in YVR
If you hit a cliff, in a high energy situation it matters not what your VS is. With VS 0 it will stil lead to total destruction.
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Originally Posted by andrasz
(Post 8914405)
Nope. My understanding is that French AF C-135FR-s have a C&C capability, at least I have witnessed them being used for that role in Chad with same tactics, the C-135 circling above target area at 320-350 while the smaller fry go in to do the job.
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Curious about those phugoid oscillations. Shame we don't have a speed trace to compare.
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Bob Viking
The lower slopes of the Alps are clear of snow in many locations. It looks perfectly feasible and consistent with the topography of the area. It looks like an airliner or sorts and I can see the distinctive GWI maroon colour. I think it is fair to say it is genuine.
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RAT 5
It would seem odd if it was a controlled descent to below MSA. Instead of explosive decompression, it may have been a failure or partial failure to pressurise on the way up to FL380. If both pilots were already starting to suffer the effects of hypoxia before the TOC it may explain the 'gut reaction' to just get down rather than point the aircraft somewhere other than a fast approaching mountain range. :( |
Local paper Le Dauphine is the source of the emerging photos. They suggest the wreckage is in a dry valley below the snow line.
Haute-Provence | Un A320 s'écrase près de Barcelonnette : 150 morts |
Decompression theory
It will be pretty quick to find out if it lost pressure due to the position of the O2 mask compartments in cabin. Most failures will still have the cabin descent with the aircraft but it can be done manually too.
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The regional paper 'LeDauphine' reports they already found one blackbox.
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decompression?
Hmm so you think they had decompression issues and tried to get down, which would answer my initial question: If they were unconscious would the plane not continue to fly straight for hours, under autopilot (like in Greece incident some years ago?)
But if they were conscious enough to start a descent, that might be an explanation. However, if they were conscious enough to start the descent, then they were conscious enough to contact ATC/declare Mayday/at the very least squawk 77000 which does not even require them to speak (if too weak to do so) thy did none of that, so i am not convinced by the pressurisation idea. |
Approximate crash site
According to what I have seen on the picture the crash site would be at:
N 44.280 E 6.439 This is le Vallon de Galèbre The nearest village is Le Vernet (Département 04 Alpes-de-Haute-Provence) |
Originally Posted by AirScotia
(Post 8914501)
Local paper Le Dauphine is the source of the emerging photos. They suggest the wreckage is in a dry valley below the snow line.
Haute-Provence | Un A320 s'écrase près de Barcelonnette : 150 morts http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17...1.jpg~original http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17...2.jpg~original http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17...3.jpg~original This looks to be the Google Earth position in the photo above... http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17...4.jpg~original |
Curious about those phugoid oscillations. Shame we don't have a speed trace to compare. As you say, seeing the IAS values might backup, or disprove, that... |
Military Excercise
Just for info - no fingerpointing meant: In the Marseille Area (LFMM) there seems to be quite a lot of military activity going on. An exercise called MALAY FREEDOM 01-2015 will be active tomorrow near the projected flightpath of the doomed flight and the LF-138 Restricted Area of Camp de Canjuers goes up to FL530. The latter is a very large military camp and a place where there is rocket firing too. And then, just about where the flight crossed the coast, there's Toulon, the main French naval base, prohibited area LF-P62 up to FL195.
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Decompression and hypoxia
Decompression, hypoxia: it seems most credible scenario. Too early to say, true, but 8 minutes of descending without any radio communication would confirm some degree of incapacitation.:{ We have seen it before. If we then combine the hypoxia theory with the very busy military area just 25 miles before crash site, "friendly fire" is not an entirely an impossible theory. Damaged fuselage, decompression, hypoxia.
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Or perhaps their crew oxygen didn't work? Decompression. Started descent, then incapacitated. No calls. No turns or level off at FL140/FL100. Hate to think about it!
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No, they would not be trying to reach the Barcelonette Airfield runway as it is only 2,600 ft long. |
In reality, it is possible that they started the initial emergency descent with a simple spin down of the Alt selector and a pull to get it into open descent. With no other inputs the rate of descent of c3000fpm would be normal, although over high ground you'd normally select the msa.
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Keithpenny
It means if there are 200+ O2 masks laying loose then it's a good chance it was a decompression. If most of the intact PSUs still have the O2 mask door close then there's a good chance cabin pressure never exceeded 14000msl. Quite simple really.
It is highly unlikely that any primary failure would cause the masks to deploy as a secondary failure and few failures that will result in a loss of cabin pressure. What I am saying is it will be very easy to rule a loss of cabin pressure in, or out. |
I know very little of the Airbus, just know that situations like this are sadly more frequent. |
In a 'quick spin down' of the altitude selector, what are you likely to get? 20K? 5k?
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However, if they were conscious enough to start the descent, then they were conscious enough to contact ATC/declare Mayday/at the very least squawk 77000 which does not even require them to speak (if too weak to do so) |
In a 'quick spin down' of the altitude selector, what are you likely to get? 20K? 5k? What bugs me with the hypoxia hypothesis, is that the first actions are to put your masks on and establish comms, and only then do you start the descent... |
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