Another omniscient poster. What are the causes of smoke? Among them could be a wheel well fire. And what might that impair? Perhaps the brakes? If Swissair 111 had headed direct for Halifax upon the smoke in the cabin, how do you think they might have landed? Given how quickly the fire progressed, it was not going to be pretty.

PAX are not briefed for a multitude of abnormal landing situations (assuming the crew could even know exactly what abnormal landing situation they were in). They are briefed for one, which is a call of BRACE. And how did that call harm things?

Worked a much worse scenario on a NWA A320 years ago at KSNA. Had a non-stop DTW flight loaded to the max with a takeoff on 19R. Shortly after rotation a large bird took out the right engine. Engine temp went to redline, a few blades missing.......pilot said it felt like they were going down a potholed road with the engine unbalanced. They kept the bad engine running because they needed all the help they could get. Circled out over the ocean and came back to 01L and the county waved them off to pick up parts and pieces off the runway. Superior airmanship was all that saved the day, as the wave off could have had dire consequences not imagined by the guys with brooms if you get the drift. Lined up on 01L and made a perfect approach and roll out..... no slides and almost unnoticed by the OC. All that made it to the media was a picture of the right side blowing fireballs out the back over the golf course. A VP called me and we towed it immediately to the boneyard. An engine was ordered up and about 3 days later we flew it out.

This shows the difference pre cell phone and media hysteria. A far more different and screwed up world today.

From my read and see it looks like the problem was the aftermath of the engine event with visible and acrid smelling smoke in the cabin upsetting the passengers and CC. Thus the puposedly dropped masks to ease the choking feeling.

Yes the "BRACE BRACE probably added to it and the cap was the bloke who opened an exit by himself.

Not sure how long it takes to clear a cabin of visible smoke from an engine internal fire. Seems too long in this case

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTqnTMPxKaY

Another video from a passenger with the smoke inside the cabin present, and the announcement of the CPT that they had a RHS engine failure and returning to Long Beach.
According to the Flightaware flight track the engine issue started approx. five minutes before touch down, or nine minutes after take off.
As a SCCM myself I can only say that there is not much that can be done more than a very quick exchange with the flightdeck to report the smoke in the cabin, and the particular smell, and getting a very short NITSA briefing, that I can forwad to the rest of the crew!
I am not sure why on of the FA's is 'strolling' down the aisle. I can't see the importance of realeasing o2 masks manually anyway. Besides that crewmember is NOT wearing a portable o2 bottle so I guess the dropped down o2 masks just add a bit of a drama!
However, I categorise the situation as serios from my point of view but the passengers seem to be rather relaxed, filming the whole landing phase and themselves, and they seem totally unaware of what the call-out "BRACE,BRACE" means.
I would welcome some pilot view of an engine overheat warning and/or engine failure and the amount of workload that comes along with it.
And, also, how long is the checklist you pilots have to work down in such an incident, with engine shut down, alert call to cabin crew ect after the complete stop of the aircraft?

Thank you for some input!

So they did not base their take off on single engine performance????

A single engine landing is not a crash landing. Why BRACE????
And who is Victor?

One issue is how modern tech is recording all we do, but it also records our not so glorious moments.
Not impressed.

Great to have all this instant feedback from "experts" available 24/7. They have wifi on JB, skipper should have logged on and asked for emergency evac tech support to aid in the decision making process.

smoke in cabin
 

In-cabin video on TV this am shows a whole lot more acrid(?) smoke than I'd want to be breathing anytime anywhere for any reason.

The if the "oxygen" from the masks has higher O2 than the cabin air, then I'd be breathing less smoke to get life sustaining O2.

Is there a way to open anything to ambient for a fast air exchange if the aircraft is at a low enough altitude that pressurization is not required?

seenitall

with more data that is available in the press you might change your view.

1. reports are the "SMOKE" was coming from the air vents, so it was a good bet that is air conditioning smoke, not a wheel well fire.

2. if you listen to the ATC tape as airbubba posted, you will hear the captain advising ATC that the evacuation is cancelled. You will then hear ATC telling the captain that people are already out the back slides.

3. Oxygen masks in the cabin are not designed to protect from smoke, they are solely to allow a cabin depressurization situation to be handled. (some medical situations too, but better handled with walk around bottles)

4. IF an evacuation is ordered and important to the safety of life, YOU DO NOT ALLOW PASSENGERS TO TAKE THEIR SUITCASES.


Sorry seenitall, this is textbook how NOT to handle a situation. And it doesn't take too much experience to know this was screwed up and LUCK had something to do with no one getting badly hurt.

YOU don't evacuate just for fun, someone will get hurt in an evacuation. YOu evacuate because lives depend upon it and this situation DID NOT WARRANT AN EVACUATION.

Mana, sorry have to disagree with you there. Depending on carrier-specific training, the crew are taught that in an unprepped emergency, Brace should be called prior to touchdown.

If the engine let go and then resulted in heavy smoke/vibration, the CC have no way to know if there is other structural/cpntrol damage. Of course time permitting the NITS briefing would take care of that, but if that was not done then better to assume controllabilty issue requiring Brace postion than to not do it.

Not like it's going to panic the pax any more than a cabin full of smoke.

Agree- pax o2 just looked weird...

Pax- turn off your silly phones, geez!

Can't stream the video at the mo, but depending on what kind of triple bongs you guys are referring to, it could also be the lav smoke alarm (Airbus has triple lo chimes in the inital, and repeating thereafter. A one-off triple hi-lo is, as mentioned, emergency call from cockpit)

ecamsurprise


I guess you didn't read the part about the captain cancelling the evacuation and ATC telling him it had already started. That IS why I question the evac and don't you question an EVAC that allows people to bring suitcases? sheesh

I would say it's not so much about 'allowing' pax to bring it, but having to make the call between wasting time arguing with them at the top of the slide to chuck the bag away or to let them down with it and keep them going out the door...

In some parts of the world you will be lucky to be standing holding on the assist handle without being shoved out by the pax and their oversized bags!

If it means I can get my arse out quicker, I'm not going to waste more than a second yelling 'Throw it aside!' before deciding if it'll be quicker to just let them get off with it....

Don't be too quick to condemn the CC....

so many are defending actions that are clearly wrong. if anyone has data indicating jetblue passenger oxygen masks are designed to protect from smoke, let me know and I will say I am sorry.

As the normal passenger doesn't know anything about the O-2 masks and wether it would help against the smoke, I would judge the deployment of the masks as a positive effect to calm the people. At least they think it would help against the smoke and have something to hold on.
Or do you think it would be better to explain to coughing passengers that the masks (some sure will ask for those) are of no use at all?

What is the negative effect of deploying the masks in a situation like that other than some costs?

Concerning the evacuation, as a passenger with no information at all as to the cause, intensity and lethality of the smoke in the cabin I would prefer some bruises during an evacuation against waiting long minutes for some stairs to arrive.

But as others said, I was not there, neither as crew nor as passenger, just expressing my feelings.

Correct me if I recall incorrectly but am sure the Boeing non normal checklists specifically advise against deploying pax oxygen in the event of smoke in the cabin?

Evacuation - another observation
 

It would appear in the photo posted previously that all slides were deployed during the evacuation, including those next to the #2 (failed/damaged) engine. I can't imagine either flight or cabin crew would intentionally direct passengers to evacuate via the overwing exit next to the damaged engine, or even on that side of the aircraft at all. Perhaps another sign of an uncontrolled passenger-initiated evacuation?

oxygen masks
 

Concern for deploying O2 masks would be feeding a fire? Do they flow continuously? Or only when drawn upon by inhaling? (If the latter: Is the control valve in the mask, so that if the tube was melted or otherwise ruptured the O2 would flow steadily?)

The American way
 

The monotone and loud screaming BRACE BRACE BRACE is the American way of doing things. Like the police screaming GET DOWN GET DOWN GET DOWN over and over at people who may have committed a minor offense. And look at the TSA security area in the US: Loud and monotone and continuous instructions to "take off your belts, take off your shoes, laptops out" etc.. etc.... In all other countries this is done silently and without loud instructions, and it works just as well, if not better.

retired F4

doing the wrong thing is simply wrong.

Dogs, depends on the unit fitted. Most newer/smaller aircraft have chemical units which when started will run until the chemical reaction generated by pulling the mask stops... ergo no (correct) pull on the mask, no oxy...

Gaseous systems (many 747, and A380) normally only run during a depressurisation, and can be stopped by reinserting a pin into the unit...

FAA to Investigate If Piece of JetBlue Airplane Flew Off During Emergency Landing in Long Beach | KTLA


The words stenciled on the object (in English and Spanish) say 'latch access panel' plus "Caution - Close and Latch C-Duct Before Deploying Reverser". It appears to be blue. Anyone know that this object is?

http://tribktla.files.wordpress.com/...blue-piece.jpg