JetBlue return, evac
 

BlueTales » JetBlue » Statement on Flight 1416 Long Beach ? Austin

JetBlue emergency landing in Long Beach: Cabin filled with smoke - LA Times

some really odd stuff here.


does jet blue have passenger oxygen masks that prevent smoke inhalation ( I doubt it)?

did the pilots tell the flight attendants to drop the masks?

did the cabin altitude ever exceed 8000'? 10,000', 12500', 14000'?

everyone seems hell bent for leather to evacuate down the slides. if the plane isn't on fire (and it sure looks like it doesn't have fire damage) why jump out and risk injury?

I looked up the smoke checklist for the A320 and NO WHERE does it say the passengers are to go on oxygen.

I hope we can all have a nice talk about this, and if anyone has REAL DATA about procedures that would be nice to include.

And to those who don't know (not you pilots) passenger oxygen is for supplemental breathing and you would suck smoke into the little mask if you used it.

PILOT oxygen masks of course are a very different type and would be used in the case of smoke.

Listening to the tower tape, JBU 1416 called on the ground, announced 'we will be evacuating', then another voice, presumably the captain, attempted to 'cancel the evac' when the tower said there was no smoke out of the right engine. The tower then said 'looks like people sliding out of the back already'.

Another day at the office, good job. :ok:

airbubba

do you have a link to the ATC tape? wondering, can't find it and the video seems to be gone now too.

was the front talking to the back? hmmm
I hope someone takes the time to figure this one out

Picture:

http://tribktla.files.wordpress.com/...9/jet-blue.jpg

Check out the end of the 1600Z recording for today at KLGB here:

ATC Audio Archives | LiveATC.net

Here is the track and track log from flightaware.com :

JetBlue (B6) #1416 ? 18-Sep-2014 ? KLGB - KLGB ? FlightAware

thanks airbubba

you are right, of course

wondering who was in charge that day?

Ironically today Jetblue announced that their embattled CEO will leaving to spend more time with 'family'. Some ex-BA guy, Robin Hayes, is his replacement.

Glen.... No one was in charge! How embarrassing for JB.

This is more than likely a result of the mass media sensationalism I.e. Most passengers think that any minor malfunction on an aircraft means scream for your life before almost certain terrifying death. Which couldn't be more wrong.

I don't envy any cabin crew trying to stop a stampede of media-frightened passengers from trying to access doors before any evacuation has been decided.

Look at the number of people in that picture holding their carry-on bags etc - how many got them out of the lockers first ?

One woman even has a huge black Samsonite - no wait, that could be a taxiway marker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbEi4hQMw78

Interesting insight of the landing with FA's shouting the "Brace, Brace' and the call out from CPT 'FA's at your stations' but then I hear something like 'easy vector, easy vector' whatever that means, followed by shouts from FA's 'release setbelts , come this way'!

Shouldn't there be a clear call out like 'EMERGENCY, EVACUATE, EVACUATE'?

Rather strange...

This event will probably end up in CRM training courses showing how NOT to manage the aftermath of an emergency landing

Ian W. Yes


EV may be code for evacuation at some airlines. Some may have evacuated bodily parts prior to evacuating the plane.

I just googled " easy victor" and it came back with this from another forum

Anyone now what the triple bongs are? Pretty sure our airbi don't do that.

It is as if easy victor is an instruction to evacuate. The crew make a Pa to say stay seated to await the captain's instruction. Then 'easy victor' is heard (we assume from the flight deck) and then the flight attendants start evacuation.

so, the engine was overheating so you use fire extinguisher? (something aint right here)

and some actor I have never heard of is gaining a great deal of publicity for his tweets.


I could say more, but you get the idea.

Total and utter mis-management of the crew from top to bottom. Absolutely no need at all for an evac. They should show the youTube footage of exactly how NOT to handle a 'possible' evac situation. I bet the passengers didn't know whether they were coming or going.

Embarrassing to watch......

This seems highly presumptuous unless you know exactly what the crew knew at the exactly the time all of this was going down. Just because in hindsight something turns out suboptimal does not mean that it was a suboptimal decision at the time it was made.

I hear the cabin crew calling BRACE. I hear the cabin crew calling STAY PUT. I hear the flight deck calling for an evacuation (if that is what Easy Victor means). And I hear the cabin crew calling for PAX to come this way. No CF seems to be occurring at all.

I am very sure that the captains of the Saudia plane in Jeddah or the Airtours plane in Manchester would like very much to reconsider their decisions not to order an immediate evac. Unless it turns out that the flight crew obviously knew there was no fire all along, I don't think anyone is going to second-guess this decision making.

"Fun" to watch how a poorly trained cockpit crew can screw up a situation.
"BRACE" is a call when you expect a possible crash landing, not when you have an abnormal situation just before landing.
Smoke is not a crash landing, and BTW where is the smoke?
Masks? Hahaha, total lack of knowledge!

Another omniscient poster. What are the causes of smoke? Among them could be a wheel well fire. And what might that impair? Perhaps the brakes? If Swissair 111 had headed direct for Halifax upon the smoke in the cabin, how do you think they might have landed? Given how quickly the fire progressed, it was not going to be pretty.

PAX are not briefed for a multitude of abnormal landing situations (assuming the crew could even know exactly what abnormal landing situation they were in). They are briefed for one, which is a call of BRACE. And how did that call harm things?

Worked a much worse scenario on a NWA A320 years ago at KSNA. Had a non-stop DTW flight loaded to the max with a takeoff on 19R. Shortly after rotation a large bird took out the right engine. Engine temp went to redline, a few blades missing.......pilot said it felt like they were going down a potholed road with the engine unbalanced. They kept the bad engine running because they needed all the help they could get. Circled out over the ocean and came back to 01L and the county waved them off to pick up parts and pieces off the runway. Superior airmanship was all that saved the day, as the wave off could have had dire consequences not imagined by the guys with brooms if you get the drift. Lined up on 01L and made a perfect approach and roll out..... no slides and almost unnoticed by the OC. All that made it to the media was a picture of the right side blowing fireballs out the back over the golf course. A VP called me and we towed it immediately to the boneyard. An engine was ordered up and about 3 days later we flew it out.

This shows the difference pre cell phone and media hysteria. A far more different and screwed up world today.

From my read and see it looks like the problem was the aftermath of the engine event with visible and acrid smelling smoke in the cabin upsetting the passengers and CC. Thus the puposedly dropped masks to ease the choking feeling.

Yes the "BRACE BRACE probably added to it and the cap was the bloke who opened an exit by himself.

Not sure how long it takes to clear a cabin of visible smoke from an engine internal fire. Seems too long in this case

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTqnTMPxKaY

Another video from a passenger with the smoke inside the cabin present, and the announcement of the CPT that they had a RHS engine failure and returning to Long Beach.
According to the Flightaware flight track the engine issue started approx. five minutes before touch down, or nine minutes after take off.
As a SCCM myself I can only say that there is not much that can be done more than a very quick exchange with the flightdeck to report the smoke in the cabin, and the particular smell, and getting a very short NITSA briefing, that I can forwad to the rest of the crew!
I am not sure why on of the FA's is 'strolling' down the aisle. I can't see the importance of realeasing o2 masks manually anyway. Besides that crewmember is NOT wearing a portable o2 bottle so I guess the dropped down o2 masks just add a bit of a drama!
However, I categorise the situation as serios from my point of view but the passengers seem to be rather relaxed, filming the whole landing phase and themselves, and they seem totally unaware of what the call-out "BRACE,BRACE" means.
I would welcome some pilot view of an engine overheat warning and/or engine failure and the amount of workload that comes along with it.
And, also, how long is the checklist you pilots have to work down in such an incident, with engine shut down, alert call to cabin crew ect after the complete stop of the aircraft?

Thank you for some input!

So they did not base their take off on single engine performance????

A single engine landing is not a crash landing. Why BRACE????
And who is Victor?

One issue is how modern tech is recording all we do, but it also records our not so glorious moments.
Not impressed.

Great to have all this instant feedback from "experts" available 24/7. They have wifi on JB, skipper should have logged on and asked for emergency evac tech support to aid in the decision making process.

smoke in cabin
 

In-cabin video on TV this am shows a whole lot more acrid(?) smoke than I'd want to be breathing anytime anywhere for any reason.

The if the "oxygen" from the masks has higher O2 than the cabin air, then I'd be breathing less smoke to get life sustaining O2.

Is there a way to open anything to ambient for a fast air exchange if the aircraft is at a low enough altitude that pressurization is not required?

seenitall

with more data that is available in the press you might change your view.

1. reports are the "SMOKE" was coming from the air vents, so it was a good bet that is air conditioning smoke, not a wheel well fire.

2. if you listen to the ATC tape as airbubba posted, you will hear the captain advising ATC that the evacuation is cancelled. You will then hear ATC telling the captain that people are already out the back slides.

3. Oxygen masks in the cabin are not designed to protect from smoke, they are solely to allow a cabin depressurization situation to be handled. (some medical situations too, but better handled with walk around bottles)

4. IF an evacuation is ordered and important to the safety of life, YOU DO NOT ALLOW PASSENGERS TO TAKE THEIR SUITCASES.


Sorry seenitall, this is textbook how NOT to handle a situation. And it doesn't take too much experience to know this was screwed up and LUCK had something to do with no one getting badly hurt.

YOU don't evacuate just for fun, someone will get hurt in an evacuation. YOu evacuate because lives depend upon it and this situation DID NOT WARRANT AN EVACUATION.

Mana, sorry have to disagree with you there. Depending on carrier-specific training, the crew are taught that in an unprepped emergency, Brace should be called prior to touchdown.

If the engine let go and then resulted in heavy smoke/vibration, the CC have no way to know if there is other structural/cpntrol damage. Of course time permitting the NITS briefing would take care of that, but if that was not done then better to assume controllabilty issue requiring Brace postion than to not do it.

Not like it's going to panic the pax any more than a cabin full of smoke.

Agree- pax o2 just looked weird...

Pax- turn off your silly phones, geez!

Can't stream the video at the mo, but depending on what kind of triple bongs you guys are referring to, it could also be the lav smoke alarm (Airbus has triple lo chimes in the inital, and repeating thereafter. A one-off triple hi-lo is, as mentioned, emergency call from cockpit)

ecamsurprise


I guess you didn't read the part about the captain cancelling the evacuation and ATC telling him it had already started. That IS why I question the evac and don't you question an EVAC that allows people to bring suitcases? sheesh

I would say it's not so much about 'allowing' pax to bring it, but having to make the call between wasting time arguing with them at the top of the slide to chuck the bag away or to let them down with it and keep them going out the door...

In some parts of the world you will be lucky to be standing holding on the assist handle without being shoved out by the pax and their oversized bags!

If it means I can get my arse out quicker, I'm not going to waste more than a second yelling 'Throw it aside!' before deciding if it'll be quicker to just let them get off with it....

Don't be too quick to condemn the CC....

so many are defending actions that are clearly wrong. if anyone has data indicating jetblue passenger oxygen masks are designed to protect from smoke, let me know and I will say I am sorry.

As the normal passenger doesn't know anything about the O-2 masks and wether it would help against the smoke, I would judge the deployment of the masks as a positive effect to calm the people. At least they think it would help against the smoke and have something to hold on.
Or do you think it would be better to explain to coughing passengers that the masks (some sure will ask for those) are of no use at all?

What is the negative effect of deploying the masks in a situation like that other than some costs?

Concerning the evacuation, as a passenger with no information at all as to the cause, intensity and lethality of the smoke in the cabin I would prefer some bruises during an evacuation against waiting long minutes for some stairs to arrive.

But as others said, I was not there, neither as crew nor as passenger, just expressing my feelings.

Correct me if I recall incorrectly but am sure the Boeing non normal checklists specifically advise against deploying pax oxygen in the event of smoke in the cabin?

Evacuation - another observation
 

It would appear in the photo posted previously that all slides were deployed during the evacuation, including those next to the #2 (failed/damaged) engine. I can't imagine either flight or cabin crew would intentionally direct passengers to evacuate via the overwing exit next to the damaged engine, or even on that side of the aircraft at all. Perhaps another sign of an uncontrolled passenger-initiated evacuation?

oxygen masks
 

Concern for deploying O2 masks would be feeding a fire? Do they flow continuously? Or only when drawn upon by inhaling? (If the latter: Is the control valve in the mask, so that if the tube was melted or otherwise ruptured the O2 would flow steadily?)

The American way
 

The monotone and loud screaming BRACE BRACE BRACE is the American way of doing things. Like the police screaming GET DOWN GET DOWN GET DOWN over and over at people who may have committed a minor offense. And look at the TSA security area in the US: Loud and monotone and continuous instructions to "take off your belts, take off your shoes, laptops out" etc.. etc.... In all other countries this is done silently and without loud instructions, and it works just as well, if not better.

retired F4

doing the wrong thing is simply wrong.

Dogs, depends on the unit fitted. Most newer/smaller aircraft have chemical units which when started will run until the chemical reaction generated by pulling the mask stops... ergo no (correct) pull on the mask, no oxy...

Gaseous systems (many 747, and A380) normally only run during a depressurisation, and can be stopped by reinserting a pin into the unit...

FAA to Investigate If Piece of JetBlue Airplane Flew Off During Emergency Landing in Long Beach | KTLA


The words stenciled on the object (in English and Spanish) say 'latch access panel' plus "Caution - Close and Latch C-Duct Before Deploying Reverser". It appears to be blue. Anyone know that this object is?

http://tribktla.files.wordpress.com/...blue-piece.jpg