The European head of Malaysia Airlines has announced nationalities of some of the passengers on board MH17, agencies report.

Among the other nationalities on board were 154 Dutch, 27 Australians, 23 Malaysians, 11 Indonesians, six Britons, four Germans, four Belgians, three from the Philippines and one Canadian.

Australia's Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade has established a hotline for anyone who believes a relative may have been on board: 1300 555 135

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 reportedly shot down near Ukraine-Russia border - World - CBC News

So, logically, if the rebels do have a BUK operating, it must be operated by Russians?

Also

It is the deletion of the gloating claim from the 'rebels' to have shot down a Ukrainian transport aircraft at the same time as the MH aircraft was shot down that is more telling. Anyone that wants more evidence is trying to avoid the facts.

Al Jazeera News MH17
 

Video footage of MH17 crash - CNN
 

Re closure of airspace
Who controls that airspace - The Ukraine so they are the only ones that could close it!!
Airlines can be advised by their governments to avoid that airspace but no other body has the power to close it!

Did surface-to-air missile take down MH17?
 

How come it was filmed
 

Does anyone else find it odd that someone was conveniently filming the plume of smoke, seemingly straight after the moment of impact? Wasn't as if the camera suddenly turned round to point to it, it already was, perhaps all the way down from FL330 though they haven't published that. Sad, bad day

Network Manager Eurocontrol confirms closure of Ukraine Airspace - "routes are now being rejected by Eurocontrol"

EUROCONTROL has been informed that MH 17 en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur has crashed in the eastern part of Ukraine.

Our thoughts are with the families and friends of those on board.

According to our information, the aircraft was flying at Flight Level 330 (approximately 10,000 metres/33,000 feet) when it disappeared from the radar. This route had been closed by the Ukrainian authorities from ground to flight level 320 but was open at the level at which the aircraft was flying.

Since the crash, the Ukrainian authorities have informed EUROCONTROL of the closure of routes from the ground to unlimited in Eastern Ukraine (Dnipropetrovsk Flight Information Region). All flight plans that are filed using these routes are now being rejected by EUROCONTROL. The routes will remain closed until further notice.

The European Aviation Crisis Coordination Cell is being activated to coordinate the response to the impact of the airspace closure.

MH17 passports of customs already being shown
 

I was just watching the UK news (I think ITV) when they showed passports of the customs. They all looked brand new and not like they'd just been in a crash only a few hours before?!

MH17 crash - fresh passports being shown as proof - YouTube

Per Stratfor (Geopolitical analysis and consulting -Austin TX)
The Security Service of Ukraine, has intercepts (unconfirmed) of 2 phone calls indicating a pro-Russian rebel group based in Chernukhino, Luhansk province shot down the plane. One is between Igor Bezler described by the Ukrainian report as a Russian military intelligence officer and leading commander of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic and someone the Security Service of Ukraine identifies as Vasili Geranin, a colonel in the main intelligence department of Russia's armed force at 4:40 p.m. local time, 20 minutes after the plane crashed.The second 40 minutes later between 2 militants codenamed "Major" and "Greek".

Transcript: (-The translation from Ukrainian to English was made by Stratfor and is unofficial.)
First call
Igor Bezler: We have just shot down a plane. Group Minera. It fell down beyond Yenakievo.
Vasili Geranin: Pilots. Where are the pilots?
IB: Gone to search for and photograph the plane. It's smoking.
VG: How many minutes ago?
IB: About 30 minutes ago.

Second call 40 minutes later
"Major": These are Chernukhin folks show down the plane. From the Chernukhin check point. Those cossacks who are based in Chernukhino.
"Greek": Yes, Major.
"Major": The plane fell apart in the air. In the area of Petropavlovskaya mine. The first "200" (code word for dead person). We have found the first "200." A Civilian.
"Greek": Well, what do you have there?
"Major": In short, it was 100 percent a passenger (civilian) aircraft.
"Greek": Are many people there?
"Major": Holy sh-t! The debris fell right into the yards (of homes).
"Greek": What kind of aircraft?
"Major": I haven't ascertained this. I haven't been to the main sight. I am only surveying the scene where the first bodies fell. There are the remains of internal brackets, seats and bodies.
"Greek": Is there anything left of the weapon?
"Major": Absolutely nothing
"Greek": Are there documents?
"Major": Yes

Reuters report
 

The Ukrainian government, condemning an act of "terrorism", released recordings it said were of Russian intelligence officers discussing the shooting down of a civilian airliner by rebels who may have mistaken it for a Ukrainian military plane.

Goodbye MAS
 

Malaysia Airlines needs radical change - CEO - World News | TVNZ

If those recordings/transcripts are accurate and true, then they are incredibly incriminating and will certainly lead to trouble.

Ukraine Air Force jet shot down by Russian plane today
 

Ukraine Air Force jet shot down by Russian plane

Ukraine Air Force jet shot down by Russian plane | Fox News

No, I don't find it odd that it was filmed. Because of an upcoming bicycle tour I am following the crisis on Twitter since the end of February. This is the first smartphone-documented conflict and from extremely funny to highly disturbing a lot was filmed and shared!

The Guardian reports:

UN secretary general Ban Ki-moon has called for a full international investigation of the crash, AFP reports.

"There is clearly a need for a full, transparent and international investigation," Ban told reporters. He offered condolences to the victims' families.

Britain has called for a UN-led investigation and is seeking an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council to discuss the crisis in eastern Ukraine.

One correction to translation

Line

Is there anything left of the weapon?

should be

Are there any weapons on board ?

Sanctions against Russia by the US to blame?
 

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/a...ns/503659.html

Today's downing of MH17 coincides with sanctions imposed by the US

"U.S. President Barack Obama said that in order to avoid sanctions Russia should have halted the flow of weapons and fighters into Ukraine, supported a cease-fire, urged pro-Russian insurgents to release hostages, pursued internationally mediated talks and invited monitors to the Russia-Ukraine border".

Malaysia PM
 

Friday, July 18, 04:15 AM SGT +0800 Statement by Prime Minister Najib Razak: Malaysian Airlines flight 17

Yesterday evening, I was informed of the terrible and deeply shocking news that a Malaysia Airlines jet went down in eastern Ukraine.

Malaysia Airlines has confirmed that the jet was Malaysia Airlines flight 17, which was on a scheduled flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.

The flight departed Amsterdam at 12.15pm, local time. It was scheduled to arrive in Kuala Lumpur at 6.10 am, local, Malaysian time.

The aircraft was a Boeing 777-200.

The aircraft’s flight route was declared safe by the International Civil Aviation Organisation.

And International Air Transportation Association has stated that the airspace the aircraft was traversing was not subject to restrictions.

Malaysia Airlines has confirmed that the aircraft did not make a distress call.

The flight was carrying a total number of 295 people – comprising 280 passengers and 15 crew members.

Malaysia Airlines is in the process of notifying the next-of-kin of the passengers and crew. All possible care will be provided to the next-of-kin.

The Government of Malaysia is dispatching a special flight to Kiev, carrying a Special Malaysia Disaster Assistance and Rescue Team, as well as a medical team.

According to information provided by Kiev Air Traffic Control, the location of the plane’s emergency locator beacon is 48 degrees 7 minutes and 23 seconds North; and 38 degrees 31 minutes and 33 seconds East.


The Ukrainian authorities believe that the plane was shot down.

At this early stage, however, Malaysia is unable to verify the cause of this tragedy.

But we must – and we will – find out precisely what happened to this flight.

No stone can be left unturned.

If it transpires that the plane was indeed shot down, we insist that the perpetrators must swiftly be brought to justice.

Emergency operations centres have been established. In the last few hours, Malaysian officials have been in constant contact with their counterparts in Ukraine and elsewhere.

And I will be speaking to a number of world leaders over the coming hours.

I have had several conversations with the Prime Minister of the Netherlands.

I have also spoken to the President of Ukraine. He has pledged that there will be a full, thorough and independent investigation, and Malaysian officials will be invited to take part.

The Ukrainian president also confirmed that his government will negotiate with rebels in the east of the country, in order to establish a humanitarian corridor to the crash site.

Just now, I received a call from President Obama.

He and I both agreed that the investigation must not be hindered in anyway.

An international team must have full access to the crash site.

And no one should interfere with the area, or move any debris, including the black box.



This is a tragic day, in what has already been a tragic year, for Malaysia.

As we work to understand what happened, our thoughts and prayers are with the family and friends of those onboard the flight.

I cannot imagine what they must be going through at this painful time.

The flight’s passengers and crew came from many different countries.

But today, regardless of nationality, we are all united in grief.

ENDS

Ok so the story appears to be the "rebels" used a captured Ukrainian military, Russian made, BUK missile launcher and shot the aircraft down.

They question I have to any military people out there is how hard would it be to use said launcher. Could they have just read the manual so to speak or would formal training be required and who would have trained them?

The Ukranian rebels could have had a complete launch crew as defectors. However, see my post on the previous page, the rebels have denied having such a crew.
Chances of a random group of rebels reading the manual and operating it without Russian help? Zero.

No chance.

Those SAM systems, especially the older ones (the Buk before the modernization program), are extremely difficult to operate. You need a full team of trained personnel to operate and maintain them, plus supply, command and control, radar etc...

It's not a point and shoot portable SAM like a Stinger or Strela, and even those require a fair amount of training.

Regards.

@ Mud Skipper

10 people with solid military training are needed to operate this kind of missile, according to an "undisclosed military expert working for Airbus Group" in this article (fr)

Le crash du Boeing de la Malaysia est «*un acte forcément volontaire »

BUK is an old system which is relatively easy to operate for someone who had operated similar system AND is provided instructions by someone else, rebels probably have such people and maybe even defectors from ukrainian army who operated BUK before

however identification of targets is something which requires experience and I'm not at all surprised with this seeing ukrainian authorities letting civilian aircrafts almost cross paths with military ones...it was bound to happen and they are first responsible for this, they certainly knew prorussians had BUK system(the whole Internet knew actually), drunk russian rebels just fired rocket on what they thought was a military aircraft

@ SLFplatine (post # 186)

The version of that transcript I've seen posted contained several additional lines at the end:


“Greek”: Are there documents?

“Major”: Yes, of one Indonesian student. From a university in Thompson.

Militant: Regarding the plane shot down in the area of Snizhne-Torez. It’s a civilian one. Fell down near Grabove. There are lots of corpses of women and children. The Cossacks are out there looking at all this.

They say on TV it’s AN-26 transport plane, but they say it’s written Malaysia Airlines on the plane. What was it doing on Ukraine’s territory?

[Cossack commander] Nikolay Kozitsin: That means they were carrying spies. They shouldn’t be f…cking flying. There is a war going on.

SBU intercepts phone conversations of separatists admitting downing a civilian plane (FULL TRANSCRIPT; VIDEO)


[Though in hindsight I question if they could have seen enough of the plane intact to know that it was "written Malaysia Airlines on the plane".

The reference to "They say on TV it's an AN-26 transport plane" also seems a bit suspicious. And would Russian separatists have referred to the location as "Ukraine's territory?" Perhaps that is why it was not included in the transcript version posted by SLFplatine.]

It is premature to conclude that this plane was hit by a missle.

US NOTAM prohibit since April 2014
 

Here is the link for the US FAA prohibiting flights into Ukraine FIR since April 23rd 2014.

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/ifim/us_restrictions/media/2014_0214_04-29_FINAL_FDC_NOTAM4-7667_UKRAINE_SFAR.pdf

System Usage
 

A missile system of this type would require training. Fairly extensive training, more than reading a manual. The Crew of the aircraft would not have a clue so the recorders will be useless. Only the actual wreckage will provide any information. This is from my personal experience with missile systems.

So is it possible to just use the SA-11 TELAR or do they also possess the Snow Drift search radar which is an entirely separate vehicle?

Is it possible to just point the launchers Fire Dome radar at a contrail and launch a missile?

slide photos
 

Malaysia plane crash in Ukraine | Reuters.com

Note slide # 13 and interesting hole . . .

No. You need to have a valid track on the target then get a lock. The missile does the rest.

New York Times reporting that missile was detected by military satellite: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/wo...=top-news&_r=0

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/ifim/us_restrictions/media/2014_0214_04-
 

Not sure about this restriction in respect to geography - this means, that all US airlines were not allowed to fly over the area also above FL260 while all other airlines were only restricted below FL260 but ok higher up until today?

Flight plan details MAS17/17JUL
 

MAS 17 flight plan details:
Take-off 1031 EET 680 minutes ETA 2151
SUVOX 1047 FL253 , MOBSA 1053 FL310 , POVEL 1104 SUI 1120 BAREP 1125 KELOD 1126 OBOLA 1128 CZE 1130 BADUP 1134 MASIV 1136 INDIG 1136 UTOLU 1141 SUBAX FL325 1142 DERAM FL330 1142 LDZ 1144 SOMOX 1158 TOLPA 1203 OKROT 1221 CH 1228 SLV 1233 BEMBI 1235 EDIMI 1244 PEKIT 1254 TAGAN 1308 GANRA 1312 TAMAK 1324...

The infrared satellite data that showed the missile launch and the explosion that caused the 777 to crash, will also be able to pinpoint the actual launch site.

Why that data is not being released is anyone's guess, but I guess President Obama has his reasons.

Missiles of this type have what is called (at least by the US) a continuous rod warhead. This type of warhead is basically several layers of hardened steel rods wrapped in a special configuration. When the explosive charge goes off just imagine a giant buzz saw blade (multiples) flying through the air in close proximity to the target. When the rods expand to maximum diamater they break apart and turn into individual buzz saws. End result the target is shredded.

The only common-sense recipient of the FDR and CVR should, in this instance, be Boeing, the manufacturer.
After the debacle of the Malaysian loss earlier this year MH themselves cannot be trusted to disseminate the truth.
The Russians and Ukrainians (both sides) have axes to grind.

'The aircraft was deliberately brought down' likely true - that's how Semi Active Radar SAMs work. I strongly suspect that the SAM operators thought it was a Ukranian military aircraft however. So the sentence 'The Malaysian airliner was deliberately brought down' is likely untrue.
As you suggest Capetonian, I expect there was very little reasoning done here. Shoot first, ask questions later.There are likely to be a lot more questions than they would have wished for this time however, and the SAM operators won't be the ones asking them.

Is it lacking in common sense for commercial flights to venture into a hot war zone with active SAMs, recent taking downs. One can only imagine what announcement the captain/airline prepared for passengers if they observe an Antonov being taken down on the port side? Surely planning this contingency would ring some alarm bells. Loss of pressurization at FL330 -> descend into war zone.