ReadW- You are wrong, I just plotted the coords from the email and it is SE of Ho Chi Minh City.

Seems plausible

Some ex airline pilot is on Sky at the moment with a therory that they depressurised, turned 180 degrees and then passed out before they got the masks on. He has them crashing in the middle of the Indian Ocean. He doesn't explain why the transponder went off or the lack of radar coverage however.

I don't understand how, in an area of fist and sabre waving and military might, including the use of various radar and spy satellites, an aircraft of any size can 'just' disappear !!


What ever happened on board, are we really expected to believe that not one world agency knows where that plane went.


Now l feel really 'safe' post 9/11

For those convinced that Malaysia is "hiding something", this following article gives a better idea of the inability of the Malaysian leadership - in all three areas - political, military, and aviation - to handle a crisis of this nature.

They have never had to deal with the world spotlight on them, and never had to deal with an issue as huge as this. They're floundering, but they're also trying to play local politics at the same time. They're out of their depth.

Failing to manage MH370 crisis exposes leadership limit | Malaysia | The Malay Mail Online

WangFunk
 

You said: "Landing back in KL with no primary electrical power would not be too much of an issue on standby instruments. Its only a small island with a coastal airport".

Where are you talking about? Certainly not KUL. Did you mean Penang?

Graphic of the search area produced by the NY Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/12/wo...t.html?hp&_r=0

The image above has an overlay which does not link. Thus, one needs to go to the NY Times site.

Image is part of a NY Times article with much discussion of the confusing, contradicting, and less than forthcoming statements of government authorities.


I've read an explanation that Malaysia does not have a protocol which assigns authority and responsibility to start and conduct an investigation to a specific government body. The result is what you see, --when nobody is in charge, everybody is in charge.

Putting aside the issue of whether Malaysia is "small", the last time I checked it definitely wasn't an island.

If thinking that KLIA is a coastal airport is indicative of the quality of "investigative journalism" on show here then I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that Pullitzer Prize......

Fishermen found a life raft bearing the word “Boarding” in Malacca strait.
 

I haven't seen this Radar coverage map posted yet, apologies if it already has been this thread has turned into a bit of a monster.


http://i58.tinypic.com/rs52ll.jpg




I shouldn't have to say it, but given the amount of uninformed postings on this thread I will :rolleyes:


The map reflects SSR range only.


Primary ranges are listed below.


This map was released by the Malaysian Department of Civil Aviation.


For obvious reasons it does not show the capabilities of Military radar in the area.








In the Kuala Lumpur and Kota Kinabalu FIRs, radar services are provided using the following civil/military ATC


Radars:


a) A 200 NM long range en-route SSR located at Bt. Chin Chin, Genting Highlands, 23 NM east of Subang -


Sultan Abdul Aziz Shah Airport;


b) A 60 NM Terminal Primary Approach Radar co-mounted with a 200 NM monopulse SSR located to the


west of Johor Bahru-Sultan Ismail Airport runway,


c) A 60 NM Primary Surveillance Radar (PSR) co-mounted with 200 NM monopulse SSR located on Bt.


Subang, 1 NM west of Subang-Sultan Abdul Aziz Shah Airport;


d) A Transportable Radar, 60 NM Primary Surveillance Radar (PSR) co-mounted with 200 NM monopulse


SSR located at KL International Airport;


e) KL International Airport Terminal Approach Radar - A 60 NM Primary Surveillance Radar (PSR) comounted


with 200 NM monopulse SSR located at KL International Airport,


f) A 60 NM Primary Surveillance Radar (PSR) co-mounted with 200 NM monopulse SSR located on Hill


Chengkuang 1.5 NM NE of Langkawi International Airport,


g) A 60 NM Terminal Primary Approach Radar co-mounted with a 200 NM monopulse SSR located to the


south of Kota Bharu-Sultan Ismail Petra Airport runway.


h) A 60 NM Primary Surveillance Radar (PSR) co-mounted with 200 NM monopulse SSR located on Bukit


Kepayang, 1 NM NE of Kota Kinabalu International Airport;


i) A 60 NM Primary Surveillance Radar (PSR) co-mounted with 200 NM monopulse SSR located in Kuching


International Airport;


j) A 60 NM Terminal Primary Approach Radar co-mounted with a 200 NM monopulse SSR located at Miri


Airport.


k) A 50 NM Terminal Approach Radar with co-mounted 250 NM conventional SSR located one each at


Butterworth, Labuan and Kuantan Air Forces Bases;

Don't be surprised at Malaysia's apparent incompetence
 

Everyone should be aware that Malaysia makes high level appointments on the grounds of race, not ability. That has been official policy for decades.

On top of that there's corruption, lots of it ....

If it hasn't already been mentioned, B773 the other night had a transponder fail and they did a air turn back

https://twitter.com/avherald/status/443644016056229888

Stormyknight, the NY Times image link doesn't have the text overlay, e.g., geographical names.

Rachcollins, Thai and/or Indonesian primary radars ought to be able to detect a plane flying over the Andaman Sea. Nothing has been said on whether they saw any sign of the plane.

Body Found off Sumatra
 

This link is in Indonesian but Google Translate indicates this to be a genuine report. Whether connected to MH370 or not is a matter of speculation of course, but that's nothing new here.

http://www.merdeka.com/peristiwa/may...an-mh-370.html

Alastair Rosenchine, ex BA pilot, on Sky putting forward the 'Helios' theory. His view is it could have flown on with incapacitated pilots for around 3000 miles ending up in the vastness of the Indian Ocean.

I'm surprised that if there was a total electrical failure the crew made no attempt to use their mobile phone.

During the 2004 Tsunami my son was in the Maldives and although the mobile phone signals were too weak for voice communication, TXT messages got through with the added advantage that they were held by the phone until a signal was received.

Yes sorry , just realised that, they are getting tricky with their graphics!

Much delayed press conference just starting now, everyone.

Well that told us nothing, except they have just realised that it might be a good idea to analise radar data! But they actually have said nothing. So either they know nothing or they are running hard at covering something up.

They just said last radar contact at 02.15 local time. Is that a new time? Now they are saying a turn back might be possible. They were asked about ACARS data, but waffled on about radar. Either they don't know about ACARS or again they are hiding something. Either way they appear to be total amatures. They are even condraticting each other in their non answers.

And I ask again, why are they avoiding questions about ACARS data??

This relates back to post 2155

This article

Now, if they dropped that piece of potential evidence in the sea that is bloody awful. Anyone know if this is an actual aircraft life raft?

Any links to the presser or live blog ?

FAA Notice May 10 2013 Electrical Fire and Smoke
 

[Federal Register Volume 78, Number 91 (Friday, May 10, 2013)]
[Proposed Rules]
[Pages 27310-27313]
From the Federal Register Online via the Government Printing Office [www.gpo.gov]
[FR Doc No: 2013-11063]
Federal Register, Volume 78 Issue 91 (Friday, May 10, 2013)
This proposed AD was prompted by reports
[[Page 27311]]
of smoke or flames in the passenger cabin of various transport category
airplanes related to the wiring for the passenger cabin in-flight
entertainment (IFE) system, cabin lighting, and passenger seats. This
proposed AD would require installing wiring and changing certain
electrical load management system (ELMS) panels and other concurrent
requirements to ensure the flightcrew is able to turn off electrical
power to the IFE systems and other non-essential electrical systems
through a switch in the flight compartment in the event of smoke or
flames. In the event of smoke or flames in the airplane flight deck or
passenger cabin, the flightcrew's inability to turn off electrical
power to the IFE system and other non-essential electrical systems
could result in the inability to control smoke or flames in the
airplane flight deck or passenger cabin during a non-normal or
emergency situation, and consequent loss of control of the airplane.



Electrical fire was discovered aboard a B777-200 during cruise
Electrical fire was discovered aboard a B777-200 during cruise. Source was identified as a speaker c... - NASA ASRS


FAA: Some Boeing 777s need fixes in case of fires
Without the changes, the FAA says, pilots could lose control of the planes if smoke or fire should break out.
The Federal Aviation Administration says unsafe wiring conditions on some Boeing 777 jetliners need to be fixed to prevent the possibility of
a crash from an in-flight entertainment system fire.
FAA: Some Boeing 777s need fixes in case of fires



EgyptAir 777 fire probe inconclusive but short-circuit suspected
EgyptAir 777 fire probe inconclusive but short-circuit suspected - 11/30/2012 - Flight Global


Massive electrical shorting, fire, and smoke explain a lot of what has been observed so far. Lack of communication by the crew, garbled transmission as reported by another pilot and smoke filled cabin perhaps makes this another version of the Swissair Flight 111. Pilots were barely able to control the aircraft in a smoke filled cabin, and because Indians have not yet so far confirmed spotting this aircraft on their radars in the heavily protected Andaman sea, this aircraft perhaps never made it past northern Sumatra even if headed off in that direction.

saw the pix of the raft....got to say after lots of years in the industry I do not remember black aircraft rafts...they were bright orange top to bottom for visibility during aerial searches. :hmm:

Last Military Radar plot was is now being reported as being 200NM NW of Penang.

Just reported by the Military at the press conference.

They seemed to confirm they have found several radar returns after reviewing the radar recordings from the night in question

The life rafts on board are equipped with electronic tracking devices that are automatically triggered on contact with water. Given the size of a B 777, I would imagine there are quite a few on board. That 1 hasn't gone off is quite puzzling. ( there may be someone here that can tell us how many would be required on board)

Media just questioned the officials regarding the body supposedly found in the life jacket, this was immediately discredited.

With all the bells, lights, and whistles on a modern flight deck, there is a lot of information that needs to be processed by the brain before some complex non-normals can be accurately diagnosed. As a result, it is relatively easy to miss a benign change in the "normal" aircraft status/systems whilst the flight crew are otherwise dealing with what may be a confusing information overload.
This is a human failing you see again and again in sim - essentially a failure to effectively monitor. At night, with a lack of visual cues from the cockpit windows, it isn't that hard to imagine the aircraft heading off in the "wrong" direction (unnoticed by the flight crew) following some hasty and erroneous input to the FMC.
I would dearly like to know what the military policies are in that part of the world in dealing with an unresponsive seemingly rogue aircraft that may appear to be headed straight toward an area that is either heavily populated and/or militarily very sensitive.

5 Passengers Found
 

According to the news conference underway, five passengers were no-shows at the airport and replaced with four standby passengers, consequently no baggage was off-loaded. This contrasts with the statement a few days ago that five passengers who had checked in failed to board and their baggage was off-loaded.

And their signals are not going to be heard after hard contact with water and the shallow sea bed.

If after a diligent search, no sign is found, then I think it inevitably points to a fast, steep impact with the sea. If the sonar signalers from the data recorders are buried in the mud in the tail, then the wreckage may not be found. Perhaps a trawler will eventually unearth something.

Boy these guys are unbelievable!!

- So we have SSR that disappears (for reasons unknown), then it would appear from that point we have a primary radar trace that shows 'something' leaving that position and moving west.

- Reports today that the Vietnamese passed on information to the Malays, during the event, that an aircraft had deviated from its flightpath and was heading west.

- Despite this evidence the entire search operation was based on where the SSR stopped and it took an unofficial 'leak' of the above information 5 days into the search to move some resources to the point the Primary radar trace disappeared.

- The Malay Government came out today and said there was NO radar information showing the jet moving west yet they continued to search in the new area.

- Now they come out and say there is infact a primary radar trace that shows 'something' moving west but say they dismissed this initially due to the fact that the trace had no identifying features as would be found with SSR.

I hate to say it but the guys running this are absolute muppetts who seem to be letting their own 'face saving' worries and incompetence reduce the effectiveness of the entire search operation, for god sake there could have been wreckage / bodies / a complete aircraft etc etc floating around for 5 days in an area they should have been searching from day one.

I just feel so so sorry for the relatives and friends of all those onboard, it must be devastating to be face with smirking and smiling idiots who change the story at every press conference. :ugh:

<<RMAF chief: unidentified plot on primary radar at FL295, >>

How do they determine altitude from primary radar?

Where has been ATC in all these live Media Releases??

Life Raft
 

Hiflyer1757,

It is indeed a life raft, the picture shows mostly the bottom half. But I would guess by its size that it fell off from a boat. This pic shows a similar model.

http://www.rfd.co.nz/media/73277/lif...sb-500x300.jpg

Regards.

HD: air defense radar

News conference

the last rmaf radar plot of an unidentified aircraft was at 02.15 am 200 nm north west of penang.

The PC I just watched.
Reporter asked about ACARS but the DCA man evaded the question and answered about Radar. Intentional or just clueless.??????
ACARS sends aircraft systems report down real time.

Conference
 

Some points picked up so far from conference:

Reports of a body discovered with life jacket dismissed

Military representative reiterates there was no live tracking of this aircraft, a review of the data for this aircraft was reviewed and a potential indication of a turnaround.

Admission more international help is arriving today to help review their current findings.

Poorly handled press breifing and utter lack of disciplined control on press, was a free for all. The military rep looked like he was going to break down in tears.

These press conferences are way too short and should be held for one hour, twice daily.

It's almost like they can't wait to leave and don't want to be there either.

"What was in the information from the engines that was sent to Rolls Royce?"

"It is imperative to find the aircraft and its black box so that we can put that information into perspective".


Hmmm. Strange reply if all was normal in those data.

When I looked at the press conference, especially the parts about expanding the search to Malacca straits and the military radar, I thought it was very consistent and logical.

The initial search was last known position. That's the most logical place to look. When that proved inconclusive, the military ran analysis of recorded military radar over a wider area and noted an unidentified aircraft flying over the Malacca Straits at around the right time.

They had no idea if it was the missing aircraft as it was unidentified. They decided to search the Malacca Straits area as a secondary search based on the possibility.

Pretty straight forward and logical to me.

Re the press conference. Don't get too hung up on the smiling - it may seem insensitive to us but in S.E. Asian cultures it's often an expression of emotional pain or embarrassment. Plenty of reason for both.

Easy.

I was Swiss Air Force Air Defense Radar operator

Easy thing. I have on my screen the unidentified echo with altitude, speed, heading and intercept course in order to scramble the planes ;-)