You can shut down anything if you take its power source, sure you could disconnect ACARS if you know what C/B's to pull.

Since the Lauda crash it is standard to double down on the Rev Isol valves.

So we are still scratching our heads:confused:

Exactly!

If this was indeed caused by an explosive device it was definitely no shoe or underpants bomb. Anyone with the capability to smuggle a real bomb on board and detonate it in flight, would not be traveling on a 2 year old stolen passport.

False Passport Conundrum
 

It has been confidently started in this thread that it would be very difficult indeed to get through an airport using a stolen passport.

It has been confidently stated in this thread that a significant minority of any passenger manifest may be expected typically be travelling on such documentation.

Undoubtedly one of the above is overconfident.

I don't recall past incident passenger manifests triggering such reports of bogus documentation, and if I were investigating this I'd be very curious indeed as to who was travelling on those passports: such as how, when and where they bought their tickets.

Incidentally, I wouldn't regard the FR24 track as definitive, but I would regard it as evidential. I doubt the plane crashed during the time it was tracked as being in flight. I'd regard just beyond the end of that track as a place I'd be very interested to look at: which is not to say I'd be certain of finding anything there.

Two stolen passports pax both ticketed on China Southern Airlines
 

"A posting on Airliners.net saying that this was a code share flight with China Southern Airlines, and that only 7 pax were ticketed by them, including the 'Italian' and the 'Austrian'"

Well I do not believe in coincidences of this magnitude. We just need to see if they were travelling together, seat nrs, form of payment used for both tickets...this time they clearly did not choose to kill rail travellers at stations. They probably did not fully understand the difference between being ticketed on China Southern Airlines and actually flying on their aircraft. Still a plane full of Chinese pax heading to Beijing. Ideal target for Chinese Islamic separatists.

All seems to indicate a massive explosion that instantly disintegrated this aircraft, typically compatible with a terrorist attack (e.g. bomb), if this is not terrorism we are left with a missile attack or rare collision. Nothing else logically possible.:mad:

:ooh: For a passport to be stolen and picked up by Customs, it has to be REPORTED AS STOLEN first. The Italian one was, but maybe the others weren't reported stolen.

Imagine all the ones travelling the world now, with people not noticing their passport is stolen as they do not travel much.

Sudden ATC signal lost & no contact seems strange, but maybe it had a mid-air collision with a military exercise? It all seems very strange.

Snowfalcon2, nice effort, but "the capital Ho Chi Minh" ? :(

speed of sound

"A bomb--would have to have been a good one and well placed."

Would it? We are talking a pressurized hull here. A fistful of plastic would be more than enough, anywhere within the hull

Long time lurker, first time poster here.

Just thinking - if it was a bomb, wouldn't the debris be scattered all over the place, especially if it detonated @ FL350?

Whilst the 2 (possibly 3) people travelling on stolen passports are an obvious line of enquiry, it's just as likely that those travelling on them could've been doing so for other reasons such as drug smuggling, illegal immigration etc.

BEIJING: U.S. officials said on Saturday they are investigating terrorism concerns after two people listed as passengers on the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 turned out not to be on the plane and had reported their passports stolen, according to NBCnews.com

"We are aware of the reporting on the two stolen passports," one senior official said.

"We have not determined a nexus to terrorism yet, although it's still very early, and that’s by no means definitive.”

U.S. officials said they were checking into passenger manifests and going back through intelligence.

No Italian was on board the missing flight, the Italian Foreign Ministry said on Saturday, despite an Italian citizen being included on the passenger list.

The passenger list provided by the company includes Luigi Maraldi, 37, an Italian citizen.

Newspaper Corriere Della Sera reported that Maraldi's passport was stolen in Thailand last August. The Italian Interior Ministry was unable to immediately comment on the report.

Austrian Foreign Ministry says the Austrian citizen reported to be on the flight is safe. The passport was stolen. – ANN/China Daily

Bomb issue
 

I would think that a bomb would leave a lot of surface debris, and a fireball that many would have been reporting on by now.

It was a clear night with other planes in the sky.

A fist full of plastic would have to be of very good quality and placed pretty well.

Aloha landed with 20 feet of the fuselage blown away from fatigue failure. I know, not the same differential.

Not saying it isn't possible.

Again....no one taking credit it for it ....yet.

That makes 160000 square kilometers to search for small floating debris such as seat cushions. This is not an easy task and it could take a long time.

Sop_Monkey
 

That is right, and given that sourcing a fistful of plastic explosives, getting it on board an aircraft in the right location and detonating it in flight is a hell of a lot harder and much more expensive than getting hold of a fake passport why would anyone risk all that effort by using a stolen passport which has in all likelihood been reported to the authorities?

If it was a huge explosion that scattered the debris far and wide then there surely wouldn't be an oil slick? Fuel would have burnt in the explosion or scattered into droplets? It could of course have been a smaller explosion that made the aircraft uncontrollable but more or less intact.

On three occasions I've filmed the detonation of 500ml of home made liquid terror in an airframe, these were demonstrations on unpressurized hulls which were not traveling at 500mph.

Was a "liquid ban" in force at the first security point on this flight?

Search area
 

160000 square kilometers is certainly a wide area.
But it's only a first guess as a more detailed analysis of radar data will surely guide SAR activities on a much more limited area.
What is important is water depth : investigators won't need to go 4 kilometers underwater once the crash side is identified.

Could this be a possibility?
 

I don't have much experience on the triple seven, mainly the older B707 and A310's etc but in spite of the much stricter security on entry to the cockpit these days, just hypothetically, IF a couple of guys did access the flight deck (behind a Hostess maybe?) would it be possible to simply take over (disable the crew) and drive the aircraft straight into the water without any flight data etc. being transmitted back to the MAS base?

After 9/11 there can be no doubt that terrorists would be very familiar how to shut down transponders, radio comms and maybe ACARS if fitted etc.etc.

Apologies if this has been addressed already but just too many posts on this tragedy to vet them all to see if this has been raised before .........

I would still think that even with the slackness of security at many of the Asian airports, it would have to be a decent size bomb to bring the aircraft down without any attempt to put out some sort of a radio call ..........?

God forbid, could it be the "first" of the much talked about undetectable mini bombs that are virtually impossible to pick up on (questionable) security checks on passengers?

I know we are all just going in circles now and rehashing the same subjects over and over again hoping for an answer but the "sudden disappearance" of this piece of equipment without a trace has to make one think outside of the box and this is what seems to destroy many of the feasible scenarios to date!

Basic question.
Do jetliners communicate much with each other during long flights or is the protocol to remain silent unless reporting unusual conditions?
It seems that MH370 had plenty of company in the area, so wondering if there is any insight to be gathered from communications with these other flights.

Benign weather conditions
Two (maybe more) passengers travelling under false pretences.
A political motive.
Timing of incident during flight
An airline, crew and aeroplane with outstanding safety record.

Means. Motive. Opportunity.

The odds on an act of terrorism have shortened dramatically.

I'm not sure what kind of screening happens to bags internally post checkin but I know from 30-40 of my own flights within Malaysia and KLIA outbound (internationally) that typically checked in luggage is pre-screened by MAHB upon entering the check in area. This is typically a larger carry on style scanning machine (rapidscan) and on exit the bags receive a sticker from MAHB indicating the bag has been scanned. Carry on luggage does not need to go through this scanning. Upon checking in the bag while getting a boarding pass the airline agent will look for this sticker and if not found will require the passenger to go get it scanned at the entrance again. Now if the checked in bags are not rescanned post-checkin then there are serious holes here as the stickers are easy to manipulate such that they could be transferred from one bag to another, or the scanned bag reopened and "resealed." Additionally it's not difficult to get an unscanned bag into the checkin area (although this varies by airport, but commonly just enter via the exit) and then transfer a sticker. The ticketing agents aren't exactly checking the stickers in detail either. However, all of this hinges on checked in bags not being rescanned yet another time before being loaded onto the plane. Based on the number of glaring holes apparent it would seem they most likely are scanned post-conveyor and the pre-screening gates are mostly superfluous/feel-good.

That being said, my gut feeling is some kind of catastrophic event in-flight and I'm not so sure how much I believe terrorism/bombing is behind it. I only throw out the bag details because one never knows these days.

Talking to other jets
 

Pretty rarely, it is certainly not the norm as the only frequency "available" is 121.5 MHz, being an emergency channel and chatter is not encouraged on it!

Other VHF and HF channels are maybe used to pass on a position report or at the request of ATC, but to answer your question, 99% NOT DONE,

Mickjoebill asked It is some time since I last flew through KLIA, but when I used a domestic MAS service there was screening before boarding, and, again before immigration. However, it doesn't preclude someone from another location coming in. I guess they'll be checking the tickets to the stolen passports.

On a side note, I have twice had my credit card 'cloned' in that region, and both times the card was used to purchase flights.

Al Jazeera?
 

Can you post a link to that story. I don't see it on Al Jazeera.

Experts talk on Yahoo Malaysia
 

Yahoo Malaysia quotes Todd Curtis, former Boeing's safety engineer and 777 expert:

Read the full article here:
Why Malaysia Airlines jet might have disappeared

A comment on disabling avionics:
 

In the scenario of a flight deck invasion, why would a perpetrator bent on plunging an aircraft into the sea care about transponders/acars/radio? There's nothing that any ground agency could do about it, nor would disabling change the facts nor would it hide the act. So why? Who would benefit?

It would be astonishing if the passport thing turns out to be a red herring. With regard to the number of passengers flying under false pretenses: what happened in the innocent 80's is hardly a template for what should be common today, especially post-9/11.

Anti Ski On: Last year when my credit card number was stolen, it was used to pay for two flights between western Europe and the Caucasus. I raised it with my credit card company, who were uninterested. I decided to the info to the airline myself, and the information they sent me included the fact that the passengers had apparent Middle Eastern names. No idea whether there was anything sinister involved, but it seemed wise to at least pass on the info to the airline in the apparent absence of any other channel. It did make me wonder whether surveillance & intelligence can possibly keep up, though.

Can you post a link to that story. I don't see it on Al Jazeera. I had a look and could not find anything.


I saw it on the rolling text not on a news item.

No liquid ban or not enforced as far as I am aware. Wife and I transited KL a few months back. I was surprised when she was able to board unchallenged with a 750ml bottle of water.

Airlines usually have a company frequency that we use to communicate with flight operations and with other pilots in range. There's also a common 'unoffical' frequency that pilots use to contact other pilots from different companies. Sometimes, operational information is shared, like weather ahead if it's known that another aircraft is in the vicinity of where you're heading.

After the MH370 lost contact, there were other MAS aircraft in the air trying to contact MH370 on various frequencies..

I think terrorism can almost be ruled out, because no one has come forward to claim. What would the point of the attack be, if there has been no stated motive, or further threats?

They definitely check for liquids pre-boarding and as recently as a week ago I found myself having to finish a bottle of water at the pre-boarding screening area as a result of this (KLIA). It would also be interesting to know if the "questionable" passengers had checked in bags. All in all though I'd rate bag screening security in Malaysian airports to be noticeably less hassle than the US - and this would mean it's more prone to manipulation. Of course bags and luggage may have nothing to do with the final outcome as well.

Being in that I was just there a week ago for a decent time period and have MY-side family as well (although none on that flight thankfully) I feel a deep sense of sadness for those affected. MAS is a safe and professional airline and I have serious doubts as to the crew contributing to any kind of catastrophic error.

Definitely not what I've observed. It's a matter of if they detect it or not. You'll notice a stack of bottles at the post-scanner screening desk because these are bottles which have been "caught." That being said it doesn't seem to be strictly enforced or as high priority as some may think it would be.

And bin Laden claimed responsibility for 9/11 when exactly?

Nothing can be ruled out at this stage

Truthinbeer
 

Were you in transit, or, did you pass through security with it? Water can be purchased in most airport transit lounges which are air side

Has this picture from a 2012 incident been posted yet?

http://cdn.feeyo.com/pic/20120810/20...0951017177.jpg

llagonne66, the point of the photo of the Brazilian general is that they first searched along the track, and subsequently ran their grids to the right of the track.

Several days later, they finally ran a grid to the left of the track and the LNP, and they found the debris field. By that time, five days in, the currents had scattered the field, which led to two years of frustration, trying to backtrack on the supposed drift to determine the origin point.

Lesson learned, if you don't find it right away, be systematic in your grids, rather than looking where you think it might be.

Recovery of the boxes should be much easier in this instance. Apprehension about ever recovering AF447's recorders was because of the bottom, full of crevices, canyons, and cliffs.

Oil slicks seen near where plane vanished | News.com.au

They seem to show the "Oil Slicks" here, I'm no expert, but in my current part of the world we see slicks like this all the time, except they aren't slicks. I've been told they're stuff that washes off Coral, like an algae or spores or some such, we get them everywhere around here. Is it possible these "Oil slicks" are a red herring?

*EDIT*

Coral Spawn Slicks they are, just remembered that, not algae or spores! They look exactly like what is in that photo.

Boarded flight KUL-SYD after a stay in KL. Water was carried from our hotel.

Can you post a link to that story. I don't see it on Al Jazeera. I had a look and could not find anything.

I saw it on the rolling text not on a news item.

My original posting was deleted I know not why.
Al Jazeera have just repeated on their midnight London time News
The location near the Tho Chu islands ( my corrected spelling) is where the Vietnamese Navy are searching.


In a live report from their correspondent in the region stated that there is a press conference scheduled in 45mins time so more information may be disclosed.

Ixixly.

The oil sheen I think is the faint smear part top right of that pic. The orange appears to be coral spawn.