PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Rumours & News (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news-13/)
-   -   Russian B737 Crash at Kazan. (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/527997-russian-b737-crash-kazan.html)

MrSnuggles 27th Dec 2015 16:11

Does someone please have a link to the report if it is online?

AvHerald has a wealth of information but I would like the official report as well.

Edit: The link on avherald does not work for me...

Machinbird 27th Dec 2015 17:32


I doubt 2500 hours of multi-pilot flying (assuming he got command shortly before the accident, which may not be true) is enough to be captain on an aircraft of this size and complexity.
2500 hours of actual handling time is a lot.
2500 hours of monitoring an autopilot is cr@p.
Judging from how content the crew was to live with INS errors, they were just taking things as they came and were not being proactive in getting their aircraft ready for an approach.
Judging from the accident report, everyone at the airline had been taking things as they came and were not acting in a forward thinking mode.
That is how you get hurt in aviation.

sheppey 28th Dec 2015 11:03


Experience before type rating is not an issue, many airlines have been doing this for decades
On the other hand many airlines do see it as an issue and require candidates to have considerable previous experience before being hired. Which is the main reason why the FAA recently mandated a minimum of 1500 hours total time before crewing an airliner. Former military pilots are accepted with less total hours because of the high standard of their military experience.

The current situation where line flying in jet transports is biased towards almost total automation - apart from the take off and short final approach to landing - and manual flying actively discouraged to a ridiculous degree, good quality handling experience is a most desirable aim for recruiters. And that doesn't mean in a simulator; but hands on in command instrument flying skills in IMC.

Centaurus 28th Dec 2015 11:35


And that doesn't mean in a simulator; but hands on in command instrument flying skills in IMC.
Which is possibly why the early flying log books pre-war required pilots to log manual instrument flight time both in flight and ground training. In those days Link Trainers were used for ground instrument training.

Anvaldra 29th Dec 2015 06:32

Gentlemen, don't be so categorical. Too many dark stains in this accident. I wouldn't trust MAK at all after Irkutsk A310 investigation (clownery with sleeve of jacket)

JammedStab 29th Dec 2015 18:07


Originally Posted by Anvaldra (Post 9222689)
I wouldn't trust MAK at all after Irkutsk A310 investigation (clownery with sleeve of jacket)

I read that report. Something about a thrust lever being forward of idle and therefore no reverse, if I remember correctly. Do you have some more info about this accident.

PashaF 29th Dec 2015 18:26

14 pages document - "special opinion of rosaviation investigation member" exist. It published with final report.

Blaming mechanical problems

alainthailande 30th Dec 2015 12:06


Does someone please have a link to the report if it is online?

AvHerald has a wealth of information but I would like the official report as well.

Edit: The link on avherald does not work for me...
Can you read russian?
The link on AVHerald works OK for me so I'd be happy to reupload it for you but just want to make sure you realise it's in russian.

MrSnuggles 30th Dec 2015 12:15


Can you read russian?
I do have an understanding of Russian and with a dictionary will decipher most documents although it takes some time (they have sooo complicated grammar!) so I'll be happy to get the original Russian investigation link, yes please.

I concluded that the report on avherald is some sort of unofficial translation of (at least parts of) the Russian report and just wish to have a copy of the original also.

Thankyou very much in advance!

alainthailande 30th Dec 2015 16:34

@MrSnuggles: check your MPs in a moment.

Machinbird 17th Feb 2019 20:39

FDR Information
 
I have been trying to review this accident with regard to the use of pitch trim. Did MAK ever publish the FDR readout? If so, could someone point me to it please?
This accident, Flydubai 981, and Lionair JT 610, seem to share a common set of factors.
Tks,
Machinbird

vmandr 19th Feb 2019 22:05

Machinbird

EN report for 737-500 VQ-BBN

Machinbird 20th Feb 2019 04:16

vmandr, Thank you very much for the assistance. :ok:
It appears that MAK went to great lengths to validate the FDR data by running simulations of the flight using the recorded parameters.
As difficult as it is to imagine, the pilot actually seems to have pushed the yoke sufficiently to create significant negative g, thus indicating a complete scan breakdown and flight control solely by kinesthetic senses.
As such, this accident does not seem to match up with the Flydubai, and Lionair loss of control.

sandos 20th Feb 2019 09:29

The results from the simulalor tests scare me though. Seems no pilot was perfect (understandable) but a large percentage also did downright bad!

Timmy Tomkins 20th Feb 2019 16:05

The Jangling of spurs must have been deafening at Tartarstan. What a shambolic, lethal and corner cutting philosophy; no wonder accident rates in that part of the world are what they are. A go around should be second nature and always in your mind on an approach -stating the obvious sorry - but it seems the pilots tested in the sim found it stressful to the point of distress! I just hope I never find myself sitting behind pilots with that level of training, experience and ability.
There should be criminal charges for the airline management; those deaths were as a result of total negligence.


All times are GMT. The time now is 23:06.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.