The NG has auto-relight protection, I doubt this was caused due to a flame out situation.
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Sorry, but AGAIN, I live on the spot in Bali and was here yesterday afternoon at the time of the accident. I live 4 miles to the East of the field and there was some low cloud and a few local rain showers but NO TS activity at the time. The winds were very light from the SE so, of course, conditions to the West of the field on approach MAY have been different, but unlikely in my experience of Bali weather conditions for over 30 years living in Bali because, with weather from the SE, that would have passed through here first. And it didn't.
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Auto Relight.
According to Mr Boeings book "whenever the EECs detect a flame-out".......
At less than 500' on the approach it's a bit late for the AUTOMATICS to start attempting to relight don'tya think? :ugh: |
In Indonesia, it takes a little time to find the right investigators who will produce the correct crash findings, for the right amount of money. One mustn't rush these things. I won't even mention the Will of Allah! |
On the NG you don't need to have the start switches in cont because the ignightors fire up automatically when the flap comes out.
So who is right, third hand Virgin Australia info or phil pat? |
Originally Posted by Transition Layer
(Post 7792938)
Someone mentions from one of the planefinder tracks that the Virgin aircraft is circling.
I know for a fact they went around due weather. They were number 2 behind the Lion Air aircraft. This comes direct from a mate in Virgin. So despite the METAR evidence, there was obviously some sort of weather phenomena affecting the approach path around about the time Lion Air made their approach. |
Embarrassment? Big words when we don't know anything yet.
Just had look at this thread. From the comments against P2F ( he wasn't solo you know) to the bloke that says flying below the notional 3 degree glide slope on a NPA is a good idea so you can level off early??? ( where the chuffing hell does he come from?) to the blame Indo Authority game. And the guy banging on about the RAF? Maybe he needs to revisit a certain Tristar incident at Brize a few years back. Plenty of examples of poor pilots across the pond too. Nobody here is infallible gents. Please can you give the guy the benefit of the doubt until we know. It could have been any number of things. 90% of the input here is utter rubbish. |
Auto-sparks.
Framer, ta for the tip re flap deployment activating the ignitors, can you please refer me to the relevant entry in OM B as I'm unable to locate any connection with flaps beyond EECs setting new idle settings?
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Originally Posted by philipat
(Post 7793053)
Sorry, but AGAIN, I live on the spot in Bali and was here yesterday afternoon at the time of the accident. I live 4 miles to the East of the field and there was some low cloud and a few local rain showers but NO TS activity at the time. The winds were very light from the SE so, of course, conditions to the West of the field on approach MAY have been different, but unlikely in my experience of Bali weather conditions for over 30 years living in Bali because, with weather from the SE, that would have passed through here first. And it didn't.
There is definitely some heavy showers in the background of one photo (looking West). If the weather does move in from the SE as you say, and given the time between the crash and the photo, there's a fair chance those showers were close to the threshold as Lion made their approach. Am I speculating about the weather? - YES Am I speculating on the actions of the crew? - NO :cool: |
Culture of safety compromise and corruption. How quickly people forget Adam Air Adam Air - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Hi Transition Layer, thanks for the info.
it was only my interruption as a SLF, the flightrack coverage seems poor there until the last final postions near the airport, so i thought they were circling after the lion went for a swim. |
http://i50.tinypic.com/20pf02.jpg
The Jakarta Post, Denpasar | Archipelago | Sun, April 14 2013, 4:44 PM An official said on Sunday that both the chief pilot and co-pilot of the Lion Air Boeing 737-800 aircraft that crashed on Bali on Saturday afternoon tested negative for narcotic and alcohol use. The Transportation Ministry’s director general of air transportation, Herry Bakti S.Gumay, said a medical examination had found no evidence that Capt. Mahlup Gozali or co-pilot, Chirag Carla, had any health problem that would have played a role in the accident. The tests found no presence of drugs or alcohol in their bodies. http://www.kedaiberita.com/images/re...on_320_230.jpg Jakarta Post, Jakarta | Archipelago | Sat, April 13 2013, 6:03 PM Lion Air general affairs director Edward Sirait has said that there were no weather problems when a Lion Air Boeing 737-800 aircraft crashed on landing at Ngurah Rai International Airport, Bali, on Saturday afternoon. He said the weather was quite good when the accident happened. |
Not as usual Pilipat
The winds were very light from the SE so, of course, conditions to the West of the field on approach MAY have been different, but unlikely in my experience of Bali weather conditions for over 30 years living in Bali because, with weather from the SE, that would have passed through here first. And it didn't. |
It's a limitation to put the start switches to cont for takeoff/landing. This gives flameout protection when N2 drops below a specific percent. I.e. the ignitors will kick in.
Given we've had a post containing info from the CP and as another poster kindly pointed out, it contains good info that's been ignored. It seems this could've been weather related.... |
Lion Air general affairs director Edward Sirait has said that there were no weather problems when a Lion Air Boeing 737-800 aircraft crashed on landing at Ngurah Rai International Airport, Bali, on Saturday afternoon. He said the weather was quite good when the accident happened. |
If you had the FDR, what is the first thing you would want to know???? |
@ IndoLion
Is it kind of official communication by the Airline ? By Cheif Chimp do you mean Chief Pilot ? @Capn Bloggs Thanks for the VOR DME 09 approach plate. Don't you know if there is a RNAV 09 as well ? |
Ignition and flaps
Automatic ignition is a option (ENGINE START Switche in AUTO):
provides automatic ignition to selected igniters when • engine is running and, • flaps are not up below 18000 feet altitude or, • engine anti-ice is selected to ON. |
I know for a fact they went around due weather. They were number 2 behind the Lion Air aircraft. This comes direct from a mate in Virgin. |
Let's try to summarise?:-
They ran out of fuel/engines flamed out because they didn't use ignition They did not appear to use reversers or spoilers during the ditching and had the gear down The weather was fine/thunderstorms/CBs/windshear/rain They undershot 09/overshot 09 or 27 They didn't fly the ILS properly/messed up the VOR approach/had the wrong altimeter setting The pilots were idiots/heroes/P2F and useless All good stuff! Have I missed anything? We should be able to get something out of that lot. |
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