US shuts down EU Carbon Tax for US Airlines
 

Senate votes to shield U.S. airlines from EU's carbon scheme | Reuters

(Reuters) - The Senate unanimously passed a bill on Saturday that would shield U.S. airlines from paying for their carbon emissions on European flights, pressuring the European Union to back down from applying its emissions law to foreign carriers.
The European Commission has been enforcing its law since January to make all airlines take part in its Emissions Trading Scheme to combat global warming, prompting threats of a trade fight.



This should get interesting as China is playing exactly same ball game. EU will be forced to examine whether it wants to saddle EU airlines with billions in taxes when competition refuse to pay for these Voodoo taxes.


Sanity at last.

Sanity at last.

We'll see, the US Senate? Democrats making sense? Pinch me, Ophelia, I am hallucinating.

It's a little early to declare a victory for sanity, I'm afraid. It's still got to get through the House of Representatives. Given that this is damn near the only bill in recent history with such strong bipartisan support, expect to see all manner of maddening riders and pet projects stapled onto it before it makes it's way to the president's desk.

When will it reach Congress? before or after the election?

No matter when, if it becomes apparant that it is being ridden to destruction with riders etc. Than I have a long enough memory to make sure I vote against the rep sponsoring the rider.

I realize that we have voices in Wash pushing such riders for and against but if it is going to hurt avaition, I at least can cast my single vote when the time comes as long as I stay informed.

Believe it or not, it is far more likely the Democrat Senate passed it knowing full well it will not survive the House, and conference committee report.

Obama will not sign, he has too much skin in the Carbon game. Europe is his "Base", not any American interest in Carbon relief.

Now if Romney wins, and the House stays Republican, the Senate Democrats are screwed; they have a minimum of two years to rehabilitate their reputation prior to the earliest re-election campaign.

As bad as both our economies are would it not be better to put this hug a tree effort on the back burner until things improve?
In reality who really cares how much emissions the planes put out.
It wont put food on your table or feed your family.
Now is not the time to be adding cost to anything.

You do not understand
The important thing is not that your family can eat
The important thing is to save the planet ... no matter if your family starves
It is what thought the green commandos and other ecologist sects :ugh:

Carbon Emission certificates are traded like stocks. So just learn to read the market and of course they can put food on your table, and get you said table plus the villa which houses the dining room if you trade high volumes of those certificates.

Anyway, although that trading scheme is nonsense as long as it isn't done worldwide, the Europeans are hell bent on expanding it into aviation. In the end it will depend only on them chaining down planes of those airlines that do not participate. If they don't it will fall apart, if they do they can recover the costs that way. Personally I doubt it will happen, there are too many limp handshake persons in Europe.

So FedEx and UPS will be shutting down in Europa? :hmm:

lomapaseo

"No matter when, if it becomes apparant that it is being ridden to destruction with riders etc. Than I have a long enough memory to make sure I vote against the rep sponsoring the rider."

I have been flooded with email from DC, they are terrified you might not vote for these politicians. Please reconsider...

One of the players in the carbon credits scheme is the "Inventor of the Internet", Al Gore. He is one of the principles in some carbon trading companies. There are some big players in this game.

Big players.
 

Yep, some very big players involved in the carbon credit game.
And they are only getting richer.

Well, a country which accepts massacres of innocent people year by year done by own citizens due to lax gun control will certainly not contribute to save our planet.

Lobbyism may be the answer.....

Gratuitous. Gun Control? Tyrants fear weapons, as do those who are not tyrants.

You may want to trade one fear for another, but a tyrant without fear will scare the liver outof you, then he will put you in chains.

Maybe you can apply for the chains lined with upholstery....Since you obviously would help the tyrant remove weapons, you may get dispensation. Certainly at least leniency...

Well, a country which accepts massacres of innocent people year by year done by own citizens due to lax gun control will certainly not contribute to save our planet.

Lobbyism may be the answer.....

What does Syria have to do with any of this?? :hmm:

Dont know about fedex but didnt ups bought tnt or dhl lately and wasnt fedex intersted in one of these outfits:confused:

anyhow the eu is putting its own carriers under pressure when the us india china etc dont play along is what my common sense tells me :rolleyes:

The European Union aka the den of thieves in Brussels are a parasitic outfit. Never, under any circumstances, give them money. It's a pity the cowering suits in the British government do not implement that policy. :=

I guess if India, China & now the US are saying "No" to this scheme then ultimately it is dead in the water. It not logical when you only end up having an emission scheme for only your own carriers. But where is logic & the EU? Ref the Euro situation. Its a political project so they wont loose face over it. Not only in Asia is there a "face" issue. Its very strong in Brussels!!!

Avitor - A UKIP supporter by any chance? 2 million jobs in the UK would go overnight if we left the EU. And because we told the rest of the Commonwealth to sod off when we joined under Maggie, olive branches may not be forthcoming.

Europe and the US are too different markets. In Europe, aviation is perceived (wrongly) to be the single worst polluter, and the industry in general is tarnished because of it. Continual rises in APD; albeit this tax is just a money making scheme rather than environmentally motivated. My recent plane ticket to the US cost £250 outbound and only $25 inbound in taxes alone!

In the US, there is still deep mistrust and suspicion over climate change. With respect, the American people, in my opinion, don't realise how much damage 4x4s and antiquated aircraft, flying pointless routes are doing to the environment.

The aviation industry must embrace and admit climate change - for the sake of the worldwide industry. Fortunately Boeing, Airbus et al are developing technologies to vastly reduce their carbon footprint as well as investing in alternative energies. One of the few industries that will meet its carbon targets.

In my opinion, the EU ETS was doomed to failure from the beginning, as it just gave non-EU airlines a huge advantage. Doesn't mean regulators should give up completely on something like this - their intentions were good.

Dream on, Danny Boy. :=

"In the US, there is still deep mistrust and suspicion over climate change."

NO, there is not. Climate would not be climate if it was forever stable, we live in a dynamic system.

There is rejection of the usual suspects attempts to link it to Transportation, and a fat payday for criminals who are out on bail.

That is for another thread. To hobble a struggling industry with a skim off the top for well clad thieves is insane.

Though entirely predictable given the morality of the usual suspects.

There is a tree to hug, Dannyboy.
 

Ahh, Dannyboy, an EU scaremongerer!

Justify your statement "2 million jobs in the UK would go overnight if we left the EU."

If the U.K left the EU, I believe that trade agreements would be left in place, as a condition of becoming a member of the EU in the first place.

On the other hand the U.K. would save +/- £35 million (net) per day and we would be governed by our own elected representatives.

Then OUR government would decide on any ETS scheme.

Anyone for a "British Spring"?

Whether in government or business, it is the rare case where consolidation and absorption benefit the client.

Eliminating one's own power over the immediate territory enriches the receiver, and ultimately bankrupts the donor.

The EU, if it were an honest endeavour, had a shot at some benefits for the citizens, though at great cost to their respective and local freedoms.

But the EU is corrupt, rotting from the inside. Good luck with that....

jcjeant . . .
 

...the late George Carlin reflected that our planet has been around 4.5 billion years; been through multiple ice ages, climate changes, bombarded with asteroids, subjected to cataclysmic volcanoes, tectonic shifts, floods, fires, earthquakes, reversal of the poles; ...and you think that our internal combustion engines and gas turbines are a threat to this planet?

Did you know that when Mount St. Helen's had blown its top in 1980, that it had spewed more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere than that of all the world's automobiles from day one?

To be sure, the planet doesn't need us to "save itself." :ooh:

I am sorry - I am no tree hugger, but when total nonsense is spouted it sometimes has to be challenged. It is certainly true that volcanoes emit Co2, but all the world's volcanoes put together emit fewer "greenhouse" gases anually than does cement production - never mind other human activities including vehicle emissions.

Conservative estimates, based on real science (not wishful thinking) put mankind's Co2 emissions at over 100 times that from all geological events combined on an annual basis. I have no idea whether this is having a marked effect on our climate, but lets stick to facts please.

Whole heartedly agreed! Well said Sir. Then there Mount Pinatubo, and its 1991 eruption. More sulphur dioxide in one day than we as humans have released in the last 200 years. Can someone remind me when the Industrial revolution began?
Retrosgone, Dude, you went to school yes? Get your facts straight mate.

Facts eh,
Volcanic Gases and Climate Change Overview

Yeah, debate because anyone with a geology degree will tell you that it is not Carbon Dioxide that is the danger, it is Sulphur Dioxide. Unfortunately, the truth as so often is pulled over our eyes in the quest for power and financial gain.

We shouldn't get too hot under the collar on this one as it seems that the estimates come from papers that make gross assumptions about specific volcanic emissions from a very limited sample source. That being so, then as far as volcanic emission estimates are concerned, facts are arguably very thin on the ground. Unverified estimates aplenty though. :8

Utter :mad:

St Helens contributed 0.1Gt in 1980. In 1980 the US alone contributed 4.7Gt total CO2 from burning fossil fuel and making cement.

20.8t per capita x 226.5million = 4.7Gt CO2

Volcanic Gases and Climate Change Overview

CO2 emissions (metric tons per capita) | Data | Table

http://www2.census.gov/prod2/statcom...ts/1981-02.pdf

Can't find figures for 1980, but for 1990 the US emitted 0.97Gt CO2 from "motor gasoline". Ten times the amount emitted by St Helens.

Table 10: EIA - Emissions of Greenhouse Gases in the U.S. 2008-Carbon Dioxide Emissions

Absolutely. Just that your descendants likely won't enjoy the pleasant climate you do. The planet doesn't give a toss and can do very well without us.

The sad thing is that even though I've clearly demonstrated he is so very, very wrong he'll keep quoting such bull**** without questioning. That, my friends, is faith without reason.

As are human CO2 & SO2 estimates. Simple truth is, we have gone through many many changes in our atmosphere, and we will continue to do so. I am without doubt an advocate for change on our behalf. But to blame ourselves is foolhardy to the maximum. BBC just said that the northern Ice limit is the lowest since record. Records started 200 years ago. Yet we know that the north passage was open some 1500 years ago. What caused that? CO2 levels are known to have been toxic to humans during the Jurassic period. What caused that. I live near a mountain, it has sea bed fossils, excluding uplift - which we know the amount - was still several hundred feet higher that we are now. How high was the water level then?

If we want facts, then according to the IPCC

"Humans produce about 6% of all CO2 emissions and just under 0.3% of all green house gas emissions"

green granite, you need to look a little deeper than that. The 6% is annual and roughly 60% of that 6% stays in the atmosphere. Add that up year on year.....

H20 is the major greenhouse gas but it isn't a driver - the amount is dependent on atmospheric conditions driven by other greenhouse gases. It is removed from the atmosphere too rapidly to be a driver. Throw a lot more water in the atmosphere and it precipitates out rapidly. Throw more CO2 in the atmosphere and it takes on the order of 100 years to be removed.

More CO2 means more H2O means more warming. H2O amplifies the effect of other greenhouse gases, but doesn't drive things.

This thread was about US Govt refusing to allow EU carbon tax on US airlines.
The debate is now about climate change which is not related.

Think this needs to be JBed

Quite right. Back on subject. Will this affect Airbus's move to construct A320 in the USA?

I dont pretend to know enough about the science to argue on the internet about it, but I know with absolute certainty that if we're all going to burn then there's nothing the EU or anybody else can do about it. China, India, rest of the developing world don't even pretend to care. Arabs wish to encourage fossil fuels for obvious reasons. Americans say they care, but have no political will to change (and they still think a 3 litre V6 is a small car).

The only ones who are interested in change are the Europeans and some of their former colonies ie Australia and NZ, and even if they turned the lights out completely tomorrow in all those countries it would barely even slow down let alone stop the climate change apocalypse thing.

It int about Carbon. It is about the fear of Carbon. Without Carbon, life stops, everywhere.

Not even the Carbon brokers spend their time propping up the 'science' any longer. This is about how the small circle of friends gets over on the rest of us.

And Chicken Little, or naked emperors, whatever fairy tale floats your boat.

Gore's ability to keep a straight face is un-matched. Anywhere.

This is getting embarrassing...

Saving The Planet . . .
 

Pprune's Climate change debate is here (http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/471031-climate-change-debate.html).

Believers be warned, best be prepared to be turned in to sceptics in pretty short order :E

When will people realize that oil is a finite resource, and that "climate change" is a code word for "use less oil"?????

I hope the USA, China and India do boycott the ETS!!! It's a total scam! OK... so we pay billions in green taxes..... how the hell does that "save the planet"?

* yawn * 6% is 6%, whether it is anually or over 100 years. I see the dumbing down of the education system is working.