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US shuts down EU Carbon Tax for US Airlines

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US shuts down EU Carbon Tax for US Airlines

Old 22nd Sep 2012, 21:38
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US shuts down EU Carbon Tax for US Airlines

Senate votes to shield U.S. airlines from EU's carbon scheme | Reuters

(Reuters) - The Senate unanimously passed a bill on Saturday that would shield U.S. airlines from paying for their carbon emissions on European flights, pressuring the European Union to back down from applying its emissions law to foreign carriers.
The European Commission has been enforcing its law since January to make all airlines take part in its Emissions Trading Scheme to combat global warming, prompting threats of a trade fight.



This should get interesting as China is playing exactly same ball game. EU will be forced to examine whether it wants to saddle EU airlines with billions in taxes when competition refuse to pay for these Voodoo taxes.


Sanity at last.
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Old 22nd Sep 2012, 23:09
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Sanity at last.

We'll see, the US Senate? Democrats making sense? Pinch me, Ophelia, I am hallucinating.
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Old 23rd Sep 2012, 02:15
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It's a little early to declare a victory for sanity, I'm afraid. It's still got to get through the House of Representatives. Given that this is damn near the only bill in recent history with such strong bipartisan support, expect to see all manner of maddening riders and pet projects stapled onto it before it makes it's way to the president's desk.
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Old 23rd Sep 2012, 02:21
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When will it reach Congress? before or after the election?

No matter when, if it becomes apparant that it is being ridden to destruction with riders etc. Than I have a long enough memory to make sure I vote against the rep sponsoring the rider.

I realize that we have voices in Wash pushing such riders for and against but if it is going to hurt avaition, I at least can cast my single vote when the time comes as long as I stay informed.
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Old 23rd Sep 2012, 02:30
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Believe it or not, it is far more likely the Democrat Senate passed it knowing full well it will not survive the House, and conference committee report.

Obama will not sign, he has too much skin in the Carbon game. Europe is his "Base", not any American interest in Carbon relief.

Now if Romney wins, and the House stays Republican, the Senate Democrats are screwed; they have a minimum of two years to rehabilitate their reputation prior to the earliest re-election campaign.
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Old 23rd Sep 2012, 03:21
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As bad as both our economies are would it not be better to put this hug a tree effort on the back burner until things improve?
In reality who really cares how much emissions the planes put out.
It wont put food on your table or feed your family.
Now is not the time to be adding cost to anything.
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Old 23rd Sep 2012, 06:30
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As bad as both our economies are would it not be better to put this hug a tree effort on the back burner until things improve?
In reality who really cares how much emissions the planes put out.
It wont put food on your table or feed your family.
Now is not the time to be adding cost to anything.
You do not understand
The important thing is not that your family can eat
The important thing is to save the planet ... no matter if your family starves
It is what thought the green commandos and other ecologist sects

Last edited by jcjeant; 23rd Sep 2012 at 06:30.
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Old 23rd Sep 2012, 06:48
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Carbon Emission certificates are traded like stocks. So just learn to read the market and of course they can put food on your table, and get you said table plus the villa which houses the dining room if you trade high volumes of those certificates.

Anyway, although that trading scheme is nonsense as long as it isn't done worldwide, the Europeans are hell bent on expanding it into aviation. In the end it will depend only on them chaining down planes of those airlines that do not participate. If they don't it will fall apart, if they do they can recover the costs that way. Personally I doubt it will happen, there are too many limp handshake persons in Europe.
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Old 23rd Sep 2012, 06:57
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So FedEx and UPS will be shutting down in Europa?
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Old 23rd Sep 2012, 15:38
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lomapaseo

"No matter when, if it becomes apparant that it is being ridden to destruction with riders etc. Than I have a long enough memory to make sure I vote against the rep sponsoring the rider."

I have been flooded with email from DC, they are terrified you might not vote for these politicians. Please reconsider...
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Old 23rd Sep 2012, 15:54
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Carbon Emission certificates are traded like stocks. So just learn to read the market and of course they can put food on your table, and get you said table plus the villa which houses the dining room if you trade high volumes of those certificates.

Anyway, although that trading scheme is nonsense as long as it isn't done worldwide, the Europeans are hell bent on expanding it into aviation. In the end it will depend only on them chaining down planes of those airlines that do not participate. If they don't it will fall apart, if they do they can recover the costs that way. Personally I doubt it will happen, there are too many limp handshake persons in Europe.
One of the players in the carbon credits scheme is the "Inventor of the Internet", Al Gore. He is one of the principles in some carbon trading companies. There are some big players in this game.
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Old 23rd Sep 2012, 16:14
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Big players.

Yep, some very big players involved in the carbon credit game.
And they are only getting richer.
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Old 23rd Sep 2012, 16:14
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Well, a country which accepts massacres of innocent people year by year done by own citizens due to lax gun control will certainly not contribute to save our planet.

Lobbyism may be the answer.....
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Old 23rd Sep 2012, 16:41
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Gratuitous. Gun Control? Tyrants fear weapons, as do those who are not tyrants.

You may want to trade one fear for another, but a tyrant without fear will scare the liver outof you, then he will put you in chains.

Maybe you can apply for the chains lined with upholstery....Since you obviously would help the tyrant remove weapons, you may get dispensation. Certainly at least leniency...

Last edited by Lyman; 23rd Sep 2012 at 16:43.
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Old 23rd Sep 2012, 16:53
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Well, a country which accepts massacres of innocent people year by year done by own citizens due to lax gun control will certainly not contribute to save our planet.

Lobbyism may be the answer.....


What does Syria have to do with any of this??
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Old 23rd Sep 2012, 17:03
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Dont know about fedex but didnt ups bought tnt or dhl lately and wasnt fedex intersted in one of these outfits

anyhow the eu is putting its own carriers under pressure when the us india china etc dont play along is what my common sense tells me
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Old 23rd Sep 2012, 17:30
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The European Union aka the den of thieves in Brussels are a parasitic outfit. Never, under any circumstances, give them money. It's a pity the cowering suits in the British government do not implement that policy.
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Old 23rd Sep 2012, 17:44
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I guess if India, China & now the US are saying "No" to this scheme then ultimately it is dead in the water. It not logical when you only end up having an emission scheme for only your own carriers. But where is logic & the EU? Ref the Euro situation. Its a political project so they wont loose face over it. Not only in Asia is there a "face" issue. Its very strong in Brussels!!!
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Old 23rd Sep 2012, 17:56
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Avitor - A UKIP supporter by any chance? 2 million jobs in the UK would go overnight if we left the EU. And because we told the rest of the Commonwealth to sod off when we joined under Maggie, olive branches may not be forthcoming.

Europe and the US are too different markets. In Europe, aviation is perceived (wrongly) to be the single worst polluter, and the industry in general is tarnished because of it. Continual rises in APD; albeit this tax is just a money making scheme rather than environmentally motivated. My recent plane ticket to the US cost 250 outbound and only $25 inbound in taxes alone!

In the US, there is still deep mistrust and suspicion over climate change. With respect, the American people, in my opinion, don't realise how much damage 4x4s and antiquated aircraft, flying pointless routes are doing to the environment.

The aviation industry must embrace and admit climate change - for the sake of the worldwide industry. Fortunately Boeing, Airbus et al are developing technologies to vastly reduce their carbon footprint as well as investing in alternative energies. One of the few industries that will meet its carbon targets.

In my opinion, the EU ETS was doomed to failure from the beginning, as it just gave non-EU airlines a huge advantage. Doesn't mean regulators should give up completely on something like this - their intentions were good.

Last edited by Dannyboy39; 23rd Sep 2012 at 17:57.
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Old 23rd Sep 2012, 18:04
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Originally Posted by Dannyboy39
Avitor - A UKIP supporter by any chance? 2 million jobs in the UK would go overnight if we left the EU. And because we told the rest of the Commonwealth to sod off when we joined under Maggie, olive branches may not be forthcoming.

Europe and the US are too different markets. In Europe, aviation is perceived (wrongly) to be the single worst polluter, and the industry in general is tarnished because of it. Continual rises in APD; albeit this tax is just a money making scheme rather than environmentally motivated. My recent plane ticket to the US cost 250 outbound and only $25 inbound in taxes alone!

In the US, there is still deep mistrust and suspicion over climate change. With respect, the American people, in my opinion, don't realise how much damage 4x4s and antiquated aircraft, flying pointless routes are doing to the environment.

The aviation industry must embrace and admit climate change - for the sake of the worldwide industry. Fortunately Boeing, Airbus et al are developing technologies to vastly reduce their carbon footprint as well as investing in alternative energies. One of the few industries that will meet its carbon targets.

In my opinion, the EU ETS was doomed to failure from the beginning, as it just gave non-EU airlines a huge advantage. Doesn't mean regulators should give up completely on something like this - their intentions were good.
Dream on, Danny Boy.
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