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AMR will consider US Airways merger
AMR, US Airways agree to consider merger - Market Day
American Airlines, which has resisted overtures from US Airways for months, has agreed to consider a potential merger, the two airlines said Friday. A deal, which is still far from reality, would create an airline giant on par with the world's largest — United Continental Holdings Inc. and the slightly smaller Delta Air Lines. USAirways CEO Doug Parker has been pushing for a merger since American's parent company, AMR Corp., entered Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection nine months ago. Now the companies have taken a step toward that possibility, signing a non-disclosure agreement that allows them to share confidential information. "It does not mean we are merging — it simply means we have agreed to work together to discuss and analyze a potential merger," Parker said in a letter to employees. American Airlines CEO Tom Horton said in a note to managers that the airline is cutting expenses and "also now looking at other strategic options that could make the new American even stronger." Horton and Parker, longtime friends who once worked together at AMR, met in Washington last month to discuss the potential combination, the Wall Street Journal reported at the time. AMR has been under pressure to consider a merger from some bondholders, who have a major say in whether the airline can emerge from bankruptcy as an independent company. "I think a transaction will occur," said airline industry analyst Robert Mann of R.W. Mann & Co. "The only question is whether it will be during or after the restructuring." US Airways shares were up 2.5 percent to $10.66 and AMR was up 2.9 percent to 46.5 cents in morning trading. Morningstar analyst Basili Alukos said it would be in the best interests of American and US Airways to combine, a tie-up that would create a company rivaling United Continental Holdings Inc and Delta Air Lines Inc in scope. "You would have the international operations of AMR and the lower cost structure of US Airways," Alukos said. |
It's a different business
More likely Southwest, JetBlue, and Virgin America?
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fortystripes:
When AT&T was divested in 1984, they were split into 7 separate companies. Since then, mergers and acquisitions have led to there being only 3 left - AT&T, Verizon and CenturyLink. No bottom feeders in the airline business, of course. :) |
I wonder how they'll merge seniority it will be bloody...not to mention customer service will improve immensely...:\:\:\
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Merge seniority? Simples, abolish it. Come on, it is only there to protect the guys who would have been canned a long time ago if it wasn't for seniority. Promote on skills and merit, how hard can it be.
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Here we go again
Promote on skills and merit, How else would you determine a person was ready for his command course if you do not use seniority? Best at brown nosing management? |
I might as well contribute to the thread drift.....
That is exactly what happens. When your time comes, you do your command course and are "Promoted on skills and merit," How else would you determine a person was ready for his command course if you do not use seniority? Best at brown nosing management? First, a disclaimer, I'm not a pilot - just a simple controller. We don't work in 'crews' but we do have supervisors. I have worked with some excellent supervisors, and more average to appalling supervisors. The less able individuals were, without exception, given the job on the basis of seniority - they were next in line. In these more enlightened days (in some parts anyway) supervisors are generally selected on the basis of their knowledge, skills and potential. One of the best supervisors I ever worked with was a young 'un (I'm now old enough to look around me and see many "youngsters") who had relatively little operational experience and did not particularly distinguish himself as an operational controller but did all the supervisory stuff superbly. Now I'm not trying to say that the role of aircraft commander and ATC supervisor are the same but there undoubtedly some comparable elements. But I am trying to say that seniority systems based on years in service do not necessarily produce the best results and can be rather easily abused for unrelated reasons. |
Spitoon with the inevitable human follies and foibles both systems have merit and drawback...both can be abused or misused...both can be very unfair...but AA and USAir aren't giving up their seniority systems no time soon..hence there will be blood on the floor IMHO
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That is exactly what happens. When your time comes, you do your command course and are "Promoted on skills and merit," |
but on the flipside the brown noser who can't fly either can also be promoted unfairly in the 'merit system'
There's no way too root out human muppetry...many have tried...impossible!!! := |
Some pilots and I were discussing the reason for seniority. It's common sense that given the opportunity, lackeyism will take root in organizations. While the seniority system sometimes results in the "unworthy" being promoted, at least it has some fairness to its design. The promotion of friends and butt-kissers that would inevitably come to a large organization (like an airline) without a definitive system like seniority would neither promote skilled individuals nor promote company loyalty. It may sometimes get it right, but as seen in politics it would eventually devolve into "my buddy will be your captain" no matter how inept my buddy is.
It was just taking the better of the two options. |
Seniority
Seniority serves you up on a plate to be dissected at the time when you are to be considered for command (in, quite naturally, seniority order). There then follows a complex and extremely thorough programme of establishing whether or not you are fit for the transition. Some make it, some don’t. (Well, all this happens in ‘proper’ airlines but I cannot speak for ‘improper’ ones.) Those who have shown exceptional ability whilst in the right hand seat should have no trouble. However, to pluck them out of the F/O list out of order, whether it be because of a demonstration of that ability, or on a whim or because of brown-nosing would soon bring that airline to its knees – or, more likely, a sudden stop.
Prober |
cldrvr:
Merge seniority? Simples, abolish it. Come on, it is only there to protect the guys who would have been canned a long time ago if it wasn't for seniority. Promote on skills and merit, how hard can it be. |
It's already been announced that American, and therefore OneWorld, would be the surviving airline.
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I really get a kick out of those posting about seniority...these folks don't know anything about being an airline pilot.
IF it was truly by merit and ability... would be the number one at my airline. But who is to judge? Kissing up to management would certainly take place....even out and out bribes. And who would judge the chief pilot So, its seniority and passing a check ride. and it should be date of hire... |
The seniority will be integrated and all all will be fine. Not to worry. We did this with AA in 87 and it was very fair. Flew their 727s soon after with big pay raise. This will be interesting.
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Bubbers44 I'm glad to hear that then best of luck...:ok:
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I think AA and USAir will merge because all the other majors did. We might be the largest again. We will see. I started out with the greatest airline in the world and ended up with a job.
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By the way the great job was not AA, it was Aircal.
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Well, while you pilot chappies whinge about seniority you might consider whether you'll have a job at all. Personally as an ex AA and US customer, I don't care if they merge or not. Both now provide well below par service to their customers and neither deserve to be in business. I for one avoid them like the plague. However, in the interest of fairness, I have to say that United and Delta are no better.
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Seniority AA style.
The merger of seniority will be very easy this time. American Airlines has always made the merger of pilot groups a simple task. The airline that is "bought" is merely stapled to the bottom of the list. The American pilots prefered this method with the purchase of Reno Air, and TWA. This will make for both a happy and healthy airline. AA pilots keep their tried and tested seniority integration model, and US Airways pilots all become wide-body pilots. Any furloughs will be On the AA side. Just like TWA, they would have lost their jobs anyways. It worked before for AA, why not again!:ok:
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Yea, BA and Air France are really great :confused:
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Can someone please tell who now owns who in the U.S.
We have Delta or is it Continental etc etc etc.... They all seem to be squabbling and none have a world class product for the passenger eg ancient 757s with drop down movie screens being used on transatlantic services, how very soviet era! Charging for drinks in coach and surly crews. I remember AA 1st class when you had a caviar trolley, roast garlic lamb, and even got your nuts warmed if you were lucky. Surely it's a time to get your act together or get out. |
Witty comeback Spooky 2. Who mentioned BA or AF ???
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I remember AA 1st class when you had a caviar trolley, roast garlic lamb, and even got your nuts warmed if you were lucky. Have not seen caviar trolleys lately, but I usually ride AA business class rather than first, warm nuts either way. |
I thought that up all by my self. :) Believe with a few notable exceptions the rest of the worlds airlines are little different than what we see here in the uS. The good news is that they are getting better, but still not likely to be as great as some here may be thinking of. The fact is you can get a lousy ride on ANY airline if you travel enough, which mens of course, your already screwed before you get on the airplane. :mad:
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Reno Airlines was a staple because the last part of the list was going to be out of work.
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Spooky2
Have you flown EK, SQ, or CX? Vastly better than US carriers for international service. bubbers44 I take it a "staple" for AA pilots is OK because they're going out of business? DOH is the ONLY sane system, that's why it is called a seniority list. |
Can you read? I noted the exceptions. US carriers will never achieve these levels off service since they are under the various gubberment mandates as how they treat their employees. I have had service that sucked on all of the airlines none the less. I assume you work for one of these airlines?
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Quote:
I remember AA 1st class when you had a caviar trolley, roast garlic lamb, and even got your nuts warmed if you were lucky. AA will still warm yer nuts, no changes there. Have not seen caviar trolleys lately, but I usually ride AA business class rather than first, warm nuts either way. Tower Dog: I think he had something else in mind....;) |
Spooky2
You assume wrong. SLF to meet my assigned plane. |
I think he had something else in mind.... |
Well I was going back to the Crandall days when you had more choice of whiskey than a 5* hotel ;)
However it must be getting confusing for the punter as to who is who these days. That cannot be doing much good in the long run. |
warm nuts
I remember the good old days of passenger flying...what happened is simply this:
MONEY...the cut rate airlines won and the other airlines have to lower themselves to the ways of the worst. American Airlines has been less than proper in seniority integration...so has every airline I can think of. |
It is a Walmart world in the airline business today. Nobody wants to admit to shopping there but the prices are usually good. The good old days of everybody dressed to the hilt to fly are long gone. I remember back in the 80's when we were flying passengers from Burbank to San Francisco for the same price as a Greyhound bus ticket. Yup, they looked like Greyhound bus people exactly.
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I hate wal mart....but it carries one or two products that I can't get elsewhere...so I go once in awhile.
but I wish someone would start an airline that had a strict dress code, and charged enough to keep the riff raff off the planes by virtue o being too expensive. |
American Airlines has always made the merger of pilot groups a simple task. The airline that is "bought" is merely stapled to the bottom of the list. Needless to say, you don't hear many complaints from the TWA guys who ended up as wide body AA captains instead of saying: "Would you like fries with that Sir?" Get your facts straight before you post next time joejet := |
Facts straight?
Dog,
Get your facts straight! := 2/3 of the entire TWA seniority list was stapled behind an April 2001 new hire! Those that got w/b or n/b captain ONLY got it because they were forced to remain in the STL ghetto. If they left to any other base, they would be relegated to their APA/AA modified seniority number. Can you imagine a 1985 TWA hire Captain suddenly getting bumped to F/O then the street on furlough, while the other natives underneath him/her kept flying? Please don't distort the facts! |
Get your facts straight! |
I did hate one year when I had to pack a suit and tie on our 34 ft Searay to the Bahamas because I had to go to LAX for my daughters college graduation. By the time I got back to the Island leaving my wife in a safe port I looked like a total dork wearing long pants, black shoes carrying my coat and tie to the bar. By then my wife had made a lot of friends so explained how we had to non rev back then.
It is fun seeing how the celeb's dressed in the 40's and 50's. Nick Nolte now wears pajamas on his first class all nighters on AA. |
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