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AMR will consider US Airways merger

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AMR will consider US Airways merger

Old 1st Sep 2012, 06:27
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AMR will consider US Airways merger

AMR, US Airways agree to consider merger - Market Day

American Airlines, which has resisted overtures from US Airways for months, has agreed to consider a potential merger, the two airlines said Friday.
A deal, which is still far from reality, would create an airline giant on par with the world's largest — United Continental Holdings Inc. and the slightly smaller Delta Air Lines.
USAirways CEO Doug Parker has been pushing for a merger since American's parent company, AMR Corp., entered Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection nine months ago.
Now the companies have taken a step toward that possibility, signing a non-disclosure agreement that allows them to share confidential information.
"It does not mean we are merging — it simply means we have agreed to work together to discuss and analyze a potential merger," Parker said in a letter to employees.
American Airlines CEO Tom Horton said in a note to managers that the airline is cutting expenses and "also now looking at other strategic options that could make the new American even stronger."
Horton and Parker, longtime friends who once worked together at AMR, met in Washington last month to discuss the potential combination, the Wall Street Journal reported at the time.
AMR has been under pressure to consider a merger from some bondholders, who have a major say in whether the airline can emerge from bankruptcy as an independent company.
"I think a transaction will occur," said airline industry analyst Robert Mann of R.W. Mann & Co. "The only question is whether it will be during or after the restructuring."
US Airways shares were up 2.5 percent to $10.66 and AMR was up 2.9 percent to 46.5 cents in morning trading.
Morningstar analyst Basili Alukos said it would be in the best interests of American and US Airways to combine, a tie-up that would create a company rivaling United Continental Holdings Inc and Delta Air Lines Inc in scope.
"You would have the international operations of AMR and the lower cost structure of US Airways," Alukos said.
When AT&T was divested in 1984, they were split into 7 separate companies. Since then, mergers and acquisitions have led to there being only 3 left - AT&T, Verizon and CenturyLink. Will we see a day soon when Americans will only choose between American Airways, Delta and United?
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Old 1st Sep 2012, 07:10
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It's a different business

More likely Southwest, JetBlue, and Virgin America?
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Old 1st Sep 2012, 15:37
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fortystripes:

When AT&T was divested in 1984, they were split into 7 separate companies. Since then, mergers and acquisitions have led to there being only 3 left - AT&T, Verizon and CenturyLink.
Verizon is unique in that it also gobbled up some independents, the biggest being GTE. Subsequently, they sold the former GTE Hawaii to the Carlyle Group, a bunch of bottom feeders.

No bottom feeders in the airline business, of course.
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Old 1st Sep 2012, 15:40
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I wonder how they'll merge seniority it will be bloody...not to mention customer service will improve immensely...
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Old 1st Sep 2012, 16:29
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Merge seniority? Simples, abolish it. Come on, it is only there to protect the guys who would have been canned a long time ago if it wasn't for seniority. Promote on skills and merit, how hard can it be.
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Old 1st Sep 2012, 17:25
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Here we go again


Promote on skills and merit,
That is exactly what happens. When your time comes, you do your command course and are "Promoted on skills and merit,"

How else would you determine a person was ready for his command course if you do not use seniority? Best at brown nosing management?

Last edited by beerdrinker; 1st Sep 2012 at 17:44.
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Old 1st Sep 2012, 18:29
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I might as well contribute to the thread drift.....

That is exactly what happens. When your time comes, you do your command course and are "Promoted on skills and merit,"

How else would you determine a person was ready for his command course if you do not use seniority? Best at brown nosing management?
There is no indication of mischief-making in the post so I'm assuming it's intended in all seriousness.

First, a disclaimer, I'm not a pilot - just a simple controller. We don't work in 'crews' but we do have supervisors.

I have worked with some excellent supervisors, and more average to appalling supervisors. The less able individuals were, without exception, given the job on the basis of seniority - they were next in line. In these more enlightened days (in some parts anyway) supervisors are generally selected on the basis of their knowledge, skills and potential. One of the best supervisors I ever worked with was a young 'un (I'm now old enough to look around me and see many "youngsters") who had relatively little operational experience and did not particularly distinguish himself as an operational controller but did all the supervisory stuff superbly.

Now I'm not trying to say that the role of aircraft commander and ATC supervisor are the same but there undoubtedly some comparable elements. But I am trying to say that seniority systems based on years in service do not necessarily produce the best results and can be rather easily abused for unrelated reasons.
 
Old 1st Sep 2012, 18:37
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Spitoon with the inevitable human follies and foibles both systems have merit and drawback...both can be abused or misused...both can be very unfair...but AA and USAir aren't giving up their seniority systems no time soon..hence there will be blood on the floor IMHO
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Old 1st Sep 2012, 19:34
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That is exactly what happens. When your time comes, you do your command course and are "Promoted on skills and merit,"
And that is your issue in a nutshell, way too many muppets upgraded to the left seat who shouldn't even have been in the right one.
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Old 1st Sep 2012, 19:38
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but on the flipside the brown noser who can't fly either can also be promoted unfairly in the 'merit system'

There's no way too root out human muppetry...many have tried...impossible!!!


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Old 1st Sep 2012, 19:59
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Some pilots and I were discussing the reason for seniority. It's common sense that given the opportunity, lackeyism will take root in organizations. While the seniority system sometimes results in the "unworthy" being promoted, at least it has some fairness to its design. The promotion of friends and butt-kissers that would inevitably come to a large organization (like an airline) without a definitive system like seniority would neither promote skilled individuals nor promote company loyalty. It may sometimes get it right, but as seen in politics it would eventually devolve into "my buddy will be your captain" no matter how inept my buddy is.

It was just taking the better of the two options.
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Old 1st Sep 2012, 21:15
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Seniority

Seniority serves you up on a plate to be dissected at the time when you are to be considered for command (in, quite naturally, seniority order). There then follows a complex and extremely thorough programme of establishing whether or not you are fit for the transition. Some make it, some don’t. (Well, all this happens in ‘proper’ airlines but I cannot speak for ‘improper’ ones.) Those who have shown exceptional ability whilst in the right hand seat should have no trouble. However, to pluck them out of the F/O list out of order, whether it be because of a demonstration of that ability, or on a whim or because of brown-nosing would soon bring that airline to its knees – or, more likely, a sudden stop.
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Old 1st Sep 2012, 21:40
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cldrvr:

Merge seniority? Simples, abolish it. Come on, it is only there to protect the guys who would have been canned a long time ago if it wasn't for seniority. Promote on skills and merit, how hard can it be.
You aren't or have not been in the business I trust and hope.
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 00:20
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It's already been announced that American, and therefore OneWorld, would be the surviving airline.
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 00:49
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I really get a kick out of those posting about seniority...these folks don't know anything about being an airline pilot.

IF it was truly by merit and ability... would be the number one at my airline. But who is to judge? Kissing up to management would certainly take place....even out and out bribes. And who would judge the chief pilot

So, its seniority and passing a check ride.

and it should be date of hire...
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 01:00
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The seniority will be integrated and all all will be fine. Not to worry. We did this with AA in 87 and it was very fair. Flew their 727s soon after with big pay raise. This will be interesting.
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 01:04
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Bubbers44 I'm glad to hear that then best of luck...
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 01:15
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I think AA and USAir will merge because all the other majors did. We might be the largest again. We will see. I started out with the greatest airline in the world and ended up with a job.
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 01:23
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By the way the great job was not AA, it was Aircal.
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 06:48
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Well, while you pilot chappies whinge about seniority you might consider whether you'll have a job at all. Personally as an ex AA and US customer, I don't care if they merge or not. Both now provide well below par service to their customers and neither deserve to be in business. I for one avoid them like the plague. However, in the interest of fairness, I have to say that United and Delta are no better.
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