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Ryanair fender bender
Revealed on the link below, that in May 2011 a Ryanair B738, whilst taxying for departure 25L at Barcelona had a ground collision with a stationary aircraft. The crew of the other aircraft were unaware there was a collision, and both aircraft flew to destination without being examined.
Incident: Ryanair B738 and American B763 at Barcelona on May 27th 2011, both aircraft departed despite ground collision and passenger complaints |
Preliminary CIAIAC report (in Spanish only) here:
14-04-2011. EI-EKB. Boeing 737-8AS. Aeropuerto de Barcelona - 2011 - Investigación - CIAIAC - Órganos Colegiados - Ministerio de Fomento |
Another Ryanair tale
This is being discussed on avherald:
Accident: Ryanair B738 and American B763 at Barcelona on Apr 14th 2011, both aircraft departed despite ground collision and passenger complaints An American Airlines Boeing 767-300, registration N366AA performing flight AA-67 from Barcelona,SP (Spain) to New York JFK,NY (USA), had taxied to the holding point runway 25L and was holding short of the runway. A Ryanair Boeing 737-800, registration EI-EKB performing flight FR-8136 from Barcelona,SP (Spain) to Ibiza,SP (Spain) with 169 passengers and 6 crew, was taxiing along Barcelona's taxiway K for departure from runway 25L and was maneouvering to pass behind the Boeing 767-300. A number of passengers on board of the Boeing 737-800 observed the right hand wing of the aircraft contact the tailplane of the Boeing 767-300 and rose out of their seats attracting the attention of a flight attendant. A passenger told the flight attendant, that their aircraft had hit the aircraft besides them. The flight attendant contacted the purser, who instructed her to contact the flight deck, she contacted the flight deck and informed the captain that passengers had seen their aircraft had hit another aircraft. The captain responded however everything was fine and she continued with the takeoff about 2 minutes after the Boeing 767. |
1. How does Ryanair manage to 'cover up' all their incidents in that the media never appears to get hold of them. And yes htere si a long list.
2. I am lost for words that an airline captain should take off knowing there had been a coming together.Engineering inspection being a must surely? |
If I did that my company would fire me..... No questions asked
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2. I am lost for words that an airline captain should take off knowing there had been a coming together.Engineering inspection being a must surely? |
The most damning aspect of it is that (AFAIK) the "Captain" :yuk: is still employed, albeit in the other seat
I am further told that the crew of the 767 were unaware, and were not (of course, as it was all "OK" ) made aware by the FR crew, of the "possible" :hmm: collision. Given the "sue them for all they are worth" mentality on the West side of the pond, I would have thought some enterprising Lawyer could cobble up an excellent case for sueing the hell out of either Ms Capt &/or Ryanair. Never mind the risk to ones own aircraft, what a :mad: liberty to decide "sod it the other guy has to take the same chance I am taking" . Sorry, but that is criminal negligence, + endangering another aircraft, pure & simple. |
Out of interest from a helicopter pilot, what would any fixed wing crew members who were flying as passengers have done on witnessing the same or similar events on board a commercial airliner ?
If you were absolutely certain of what you had seen, would you take steps to make the aircraft return to the gate after the captain had decided otherwise. |
If they ignored my objections ? Walk to the front & open the exit thereby blowing the slide if I was 101% sure. . . .and no, not joking.
Really surprised the Eng didn't take it further, they are not normally "shy retiring" types :D |
Ryanair fender bender
As mentioned before, they not only knowingly departed without engineering inspection, they also failed to notify the AA 767 or ATC and let it depart too. What if the 767 had elevator damage? Disgraceful in all aspects if true.
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Hey C P S, I was told they demoted her so she left. I am defo with you on not just sitting there while they get airborne after that.
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Ryanair fender bender
Hey Captainplaystation. Don't forget your action of blowing the slide might get you banned from ever flying Ryanair again! That would be a real shame ;-)
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I agree with all that's been said, no excuses for the fr captain. If that had happened in a car for example and the offender had left the scene of the accident without swapping addresses, then that's a criminal offence??
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If it's true - then what is the point of the FO on that flight if they just sat there and potentially allowed the captain to make such a :mad: decision
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It does make you wonder, and I often do, what the reaction of cabin crew would actually be in an instance like this. It will be interesting to find out, as we surely will eventually, what conversations actually took place.
I know for certain that if I was sure something was wrong then I would be up out of my seat, and, not get back in it again until something was done. If the photos are correct the crew of the RYR must have surely have been able to see the damage to the AA. If they did and did nothing about it I find that incredible. |
So why isn't Spain making a bit more fuss about this, bearing in mind that AENA have now bowed to MOR's wishes with regard to the agreement at Alicante (El Altet) that Ryanair passengers may now walk to and from the aircraft? Could the answer be that Spain is desperate for tourist revenue?
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SunnyJohn, Aena s debt creditors are Irish. Why do you think RYRY gets away with so much??
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Flightmech
The 767 had substantial damage to the elevator section, see the link further up the page for pics.
This should see Ryanair and the Cpt, who failed to notify both ATC and the 767 crew of the damage, up on criminal negligence charges. How would Ryanair have reacted had the 767 elevators failed to perform upon take off. An absolutely shambolic situation. |
It will be interesting to find out, as we surely will eventually, what conversations actually took place. "The FA seems to have been unaware of the safety implications of the information she was providing. First, she rang only once, instead of the three times that, as stated by the flight crew, are procedurally required if a condition poses a threat to safety. As the captain noted, this predisposed her to not place too much importance on the report. Secondly, the FA began her report with "I'm sorry to bother you, I know I'm not supposed to ...", as she stated, or with "For your information only", according to the captain's statement. In any event, either expression indicates hesitation regarding whether or not she should have interrupted the pilots' activities with this report. Another indication of the poor communication is the fact that when recounting her conversation with the captain, the FA described the captain's explanation as involving "aviation terminology", which suggests that the FA was not familiar with the language used by the pilot. The fact that the captain believed only one passenger, and not several, had reported the collision is further proof of this miscommunication and proved critical to her assessment of the situation, as she herself stated." |
Oh the biscuit chuckers are to blame, coz they didn't do the correct procedure and didn't explain it properly. I love a happy ending.
I wonder if anyone was looking back out the right cockpit window to see there was clearance as it clattered the 767? I wonder what speed they were taxying at, and were they in a hurry? I wonder why nobody noticed the trashed winglet at Ibiza? I wonder if the 767 had crashed into the middle of the Atlantic killing all on board, and they parked the 738 at Barcelona overnight, they might have got away with it, the ramp bunnies could have carried the can for the winglet, smacked it with a truck they did, honest guv? :ugh: |
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 7329414)
According to the official report:
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is it feasible that the crew of the 767 didn't notice it?
Yes, feasible depending on the severity of impact. I remember an incident in MAN about 7 years ago with a similar mismatch in size, the crew of the larger aircraft (the moving one in this case) felt an shudder but it was not immediately obvious that there had been a collision. The stationary aircraft in that case were immediately aware of the impact. Link for AAIB Report. sr |
Is this a public document (and if so, is there a link?) or are you referring to a company-internal report? English translation P211 onwards. |
The AA 767 had an elavator sliced nearly in half by the winglet on the FR. The FR crew, if aware, should have charges brought against them.
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SunnyJohn, Aena s debt creditors are Irish. Why do you think RYRY gets away with so much?? |
Very interesting report.
Three aircraft (AA, FR, AF) cleared to the holding point, without further specification. AA is first in line, and is cleared to G3. FR comes up behind, turns a touch, trying to squeeze around, probably hits the elevator (the report explicitly states that the collision could not be detected on the acceleration data from either aircraft), and (when the F/O tells her to stop) stops. Several passengers on the right side of the aircraft start speaking excitedly in Spanish. One tells the FA in English that there has been a collision. The FA goes to the Purser and asks what to do. Meanwhile, the Captain looks out the F/O's window to verify visually separation. ATC asks them to proceed to spot G1. The reply (no mention of whether F/O or Capt.), as transcribed: "Can we just stand by if you like in the aisle before to (garbled) start clearance... to after" The FA calls the Captain with a "Only for your information..."; the Captain gives the FA a response that it not understood. ATC calls again, asking them to move to G1, so that AF behind them can go to G2. They reply: "Could I wait and move forward if it fits... to make sure clearance" Thirty seconds later, AF calls and asks ATC to "Confirm that they are moving forward so that we can pass behind." AA, hearing this, moves 10-15 feet closer to the holding point. From the Ryanair crew's statement: After receiving clearance, they took off normally to their destination (Ibiza). There were no additional comments from the from any cabin crew members for the duration of the flight. Though they stated being certain that there had been no contact, the captain decided to do the pre-flight walk around personally once they were parked at the Ibiza airport. During the inspection she noticed that the paint on the right winglet was scratched. She regarded the defect as minor, one that did not justify any actions by maintenance personnel, especially as they would have had to fly from Barcelona, since the airline does not have mechanics in Ibiza. She also did not make an entry of the defect in the aircraft logbook. During the stopover at the Ibiza airport, there were no additional comments from the cabin crew regarding the passengers' reports of potential contact. After the return flight to Barcelona, as they were leaving the airplane, a cabin crew member informed the captain that several passengers had reported possible contact, which raised some concern during the flight to Ibiza. The captain was surprised to hear this since the FA who had called the cockpit, and who was very close to the cockpit, did not make any comments about it upon arriving in Ibiza. It was then that the captain called maintenance services who, after assessing the damage, opened a deferred maintenance item and dispatched the airplane. |
Winglet "scratched" and it did that amount of damage?
Must have been those mischievous leprechauns. :) |
The captain , being a contractor, is of course personally financially responsible for the damage.
Look forward to the tales of extradition and the american court system! |
At least they would be able to blow the hooter for an on time arrival in Ibiza.
Does anything else matter to the Dublin "management" ? |
There are NO contractor airline pilots flying scheduled ops. Within Ryanair or any other European airline.
All are employees according to the law, no matter what contract said pilots were obliged to sign. If they signed a " contractor" contract, the employER is guilty of false self employment and is liable to pay due social security and taxes . |
Icelanta - we're talking semantics here...
A large number of pilots working for FR and EZY are SELF-EMPLOYED. For practical purposes the are contractors as they are not paid directly by the airline they work for. |
Icelanta,
true or not, completely off topic, and the subject has been bloodmilked in countless threads here on pprune. Regarding the incident, it´s old news. I find it unfair to bring up something that happened what, 2 years ago, and say that Ryanair are always trying to cover up every incident they have, like any airline would advertise that they had a mishap. My point is basically, that people here on pprune are not very consistent when it comes to throwing stones. Ryanair hate-ing makes people pick anything they can just to get a shot at Ryanair. I´ve said this before, I´m no fan of RYR management, I think they´re fkrs and bullies and play a big part in making t&c´s for pilots in they state that they are now. Having said that, I think flying wise, they are as good as it gets, and I believe statistically has no worse incident record than other airlines - quite possibly better. Maintainance has so far been one of the best in the airline industry, sop´s are a great safety net (although some trainers are comepletely fixed on them, at the expense of airmanship), and the pilots are generally in good form due to amount of sectors, demanding airports etc. Oh yes, the incident... I think the captain actually thought that nothing happened, the collision might have been taken as a bump in the taxiway. The reaction; absolutely ridiculous! If there´s any doubt, there´s no doubt. If you have to ask the other a/c to move forward, and then having cabin crew saying that pax thought there was a collision... |
What's the problem guys? These ham-fisters beat on Boeings constantly. They are tough airplanes!
PLONK -drl |
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From the crew statement:
She regarded the defect as minor, one that did not justify any actions by maintenance personnel, especially as they would have had to fly from Barcelona, since the airline does not have mechanics in Ibiza. The seriousness with which defects are treated is inversely proportional to the distance of qualified repair staff. |
Another similar conflict at LHR here:
Air Accidents Investigation: Airbus 501130 I was pax on the 757 and definitely felt it. What the report doesn't say was that we were deplaned on to coaches without any break in departures on the nearby runway. Don't think the yellow jacket brigade would allow that today! |
Originally Posted by LME
The AA 767 had an elavator sliced nearly in half by the winglet on the FR. ...
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Very familiar with both thanks. Maybe you need a bit more OJT on flight control identification.:ok:
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That is what a corporate culture of fear and intimidation gets you. Is anyone surprised? No. Does the Irish regulator care? It seems not
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