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Airbubba: The audit I saw is not the one posted by the Kiwi. I don't know where that came from. The one I saw was the original one done by the Delta team. The document I linked to seems to be often bandied about as the real deal but some of us can see that it clearly was not written by Delta pilots or even Americans. I believe Alex Paterson may have posted it on his website years ago but it now seems to be removed. Some of the Ozmate AFAP alums were trying to convince me that these were the actual DL-KE audit findings but observations like "Captain over pattered [sic] the FO so much on the approach, the FO was having difficulty concentrating on the flying." and "Loosening of collar and tie reduces fatigue and should be encouraged." tells me that the author(s) weren't a bunch of good ole boys from Atlanta.:) And like I said, the Kiwi comments are not all bad, probably authentic but very subjective observations of an individual in response to a request for inputs. |
KAL history
the history the first audit was by a South African Pilot ( not Kiwi). It was filed for the benefit of the Delta reorganization (2000 I believe) The second diatribe was from a failed ex-Delta pilot who was also fired from Delta for fraud. He certainly had some valid points but was a real pain.
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The second diatribe was from a failed ex-Delta pilot who was also fired from Delta for fraud. He certainly had some valid points but was a real pain. "I couldn't do my own job without getting canned - pay me to show you how to run your operation!" Some of the folks who pop up with sound bites on CNN and the like after an aviation incident have very colorful employment histories. Anyway, the 'Delta Audit of Korean Airlines' has been sighted (and cited) more than Elvis but no one seems to really have a copy after all these years. |
I recall that he had no time on the 777 (767 time) and started by telling the Koreans how to fly the aircraft they operated for the last 10 years!
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Airbubba,
I think this may be what you are looking for... (not exactly sure) korean airlines internal audit safety report It came via B-HKD's post in the Tech Log. There are 43 items mentioned in the body of the report. But note the introduction, there is a caveat... Oh, you need to download the report, it is in pdf form, from the gray block towards the bottom of the blog. TD |
Just to give the readers some of the time lines of Korean Airline's checkered history. The audit was initiated after the crash of KAL 801 in 1997 in Guam. Lose your life but don't lose face. Much of the progress and change KAL made after Dave Greenberg was there has fallen by the wayside. From some of the incidents that have occurred over there it is a miracle they haven't had another Guam. It must be because of all of that foreign "riff-raff".
Korean Airlines Internal Audit Report – an airline waiting to happen October 1, 2009 The following internal safety audit report into Korean Airlines flying operations was conducted in September 1998 by an external New Zealand check and training pilot. The internal safety audit report was allegedly part of a wider program being overseen by Delta Airlines of America. It was never intended to be public. The report was allegedly required by the US Federal Aviation Authority (FAA) and insurance companies in the aftermath of the Korean Airlines B747 crash at Guam on 06/08/97 (Flight 801) as a precursor to the setting up of a proposed code sharing arrangement between KAL and Delta Airlines. Prior to any bilateral code share arrangement it is typical to have both organisations conduct mutual audits to satisfy their own internal management, insurance agencies and external legislating authorities. According to The Wall Street Journal story of 8th April 1999, KAL Executive Vice President Yi-Taek Shim has admitted that “the leaked audit was an internal report written by an expatriate KAL pilot who no longer works for the airline.” The audit reveals an endemic level of complacency, arrogance and incompetence pervading all sections of Korean Airlines flight operations and apparently was reportedly rejected by Korean Airlines management at that time. Since that time, however, the airline has welcomed Western operational influences and is slowly overhauling the dangerous culture of incompetence that plagues the crew. Between 1970 and 1999 Korean Air wrote off 16 aircraft in serious incidents and accidents, with the loss of over 700 lives. If safety is no accident, neither is their high accident record. This report demonstrates why. In 2000 – after acknowledging that they were an international disgrace – Korean Air recruited David Greenberg, a retired Delta Air Lines vice president, to run its operations. He was charged with the impossible task of rescuing the airline from destroying itself. He introduced merit based promotion and cracked down on the corrupt friendship based fast-track promotions for the inner circle of politically aligned pilots, he introduced a new and improved rigorous training program for pilots and made attempts at introducing a western style of cockpit resource management to enhance crew communications. On the surface KAL they seem to have been mildly successful; their last passenger fatal accident was the same one that inspired this report. Some say Korean are an accident waiting to happen. In the meantime, however, they seem to be an airline waiting to happen. Time will tell. This blog was originally published on flight.org in 2006. |
What about Asiana? What's it like working for them? Same thing or better?
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Yes, I stand corrected. Many of the South Africans obtained NZ and Aussie nationality. When the left SA the future was far some certain. I guess I always considered him South African. G
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I met a retired ex-pat captain who flew one of the heavy KAL tri-jets (I think) with a flight engineer. He said that every command given to his Korean FO was refererred back to the older flight engineer, by means of an anxious glance, for the "the nod". Apparently, by tradition the FE had automatic seniority because of his age.
He said the whole time he felt like he had "a saboteur on the flight deck." And someone else descibed an ex-pat Captain and local FO fighting with opposite yoke inputs on a take off - captain pulling up & FO pushing forward. Eventually smacked the nose down and wrote off the hull. Can anyone verify that caper? |
Having worked in Korea for 5 years, I can verify that the Korean culture has direct safety impacts on the flight. Whether you like or dislike the culture is a matter of personal opinion, but it definitely does not belong on a flight deck.
Some of the FO's and Captains I flew with were really nice, but the entire experience I had was one that made me really dislike going to work. The Korean work environment is one of hostility, stress and they constantly worry about everything. |
Having worked in Korea for 5 years, I can verify that the Korean culture has direct safety impacts on the flight. Whether you like or dislike the culture is a matter of personal opinion, but it definitely does not belong on a flight deck. |
411A RIP
You see, the foreign captain demonstrated poor CRM. That's the root
cause of this and most other problems.... Fly safe, PantLoad (I'm joking, of course!) |
A friend of mine spent two years there on a 744 command contract. He mentioned there were some 'testing' moments. For example, when he emerged from the bunk on cessation of his scheduled rest to find he was alone on the flight deck! After that incident, he always took his rest in the seat.
Two years was enough for him. |
Airbubba, I think this may be what you are looking for... (not exactly sure) korean airlines internal audit safety report |
Interesting thread.
Korea is no different than China, Japan or any other Asian country. If western pilots look for Jobs in Asia is because their options are scarse. Korean Air is not a bad place to work, one must realize that this is the best commuting contract right now. There are hundreds of pilots applying every month, but the failure rate are fairly high. Korean Air has reputation for being the worse place to work, but other airlines in Asia are worse than Korean Air, Been there Done that, not to mention airlines in Arab countries. So, If you want to join KAL, rest assured that you will get your days off as planned, your family will be seated in business class with confirmed space (Economy upgrade to Prestige class), and IF you are smart, you’ll remain quiet and do KAL procedures. Fly Safe. |
Zekeigo:
So, If you want to join KAL, rest assured that you will get your days off as planned, your family will be seated in business class with confirmed space (Economy upgrade to Prestige class), and IF you are smart, you’ll remain quiet and do KAL procedures. Fly Safe. |
you’ll remain quiet and do KAL procedures |
If western pilots look for Jobs in Asia is because their options are scarse. |
KAL
Korean Air is not a bad place to work, one must realize that this is the best commuting contract right now. There are hundreds of pilots applying every month, but the failure rate are fairly high. Korean Air has reputation for being the worse place to work, but other airlines in Asia are worse than Korean Air, Been there Done that, not to mention airlines in Arab countries. Yep. I tell guys that are thinking about coming to KAL it's what you make of it. You can be happy or unhappy, it's your choice. Nothing is perfect and that's why I ended up here, looking for something a little better than what I had. KAL is not perfect but it's much better than where I was before. So keep your head down, do the best you can with the procedures, and take your days off as planned. |
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