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Sooo, You Want to Fly for Korean Airlines Do You?

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Sooo, You Want to Fly for Korean Airlines Do You?

Old 30th Mar 2012, 22:53
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Sooo, You Want to Fly for Korean Airlines Do You?

Just talking with a fellow aviator who flies for Korean Airlines. He was telling me about an incident which occurred back on December 1, 2011. Seems an expat captain on a B777-300ER from ICN-BKK was assaulted by a Korean engineer in Bangkok.
As the story goes, after landing in Bangkok the captain chose to shutdown an engine during taxi to the gate as the aircraft was rather light weight and was requiring constant braking to maintain a safe taxi speed because of the residual thrust of the GE90 engines. (If you haven't flown this aircraft the GE engines put out a lot of thrust even at idle) Supposedly, KAL like many airlines has advisory pages on each airport (called K-pages, how original). The advisory for BKK "recommends"(not mandatory, not procedure) leaving both engines running taxiing to the gate as there is a slight upslope and to prevent jet blast damage. This is normal if you are flying some of the 777's with the less powerful Pratt & Whitney engines. The aircraft was taxied to the gate and parked with the remaining engine at idle.
After the passengers had disembarked, the engineer came on the aircraft and started yelling at the first officer in Korean. The captain was standing in the cockpit doorway watching this situation going on in first class. Finally, he asked what was going on and the engineer came up to him and started yelling at him in poor, broken English "you violate procedure, you violate Jeppesen, you shutdown engine". The captain told him to get out of his face and stop yelling. Then the engineer, put his hands on the captain and told him to get out of his way. The captain told him to back off and reached for the engineer's ID attached to his pocket. The engineer then shoved the captain and he fell back into the cockpit. In the ensuing struggle, the engineer grabbed the captain from behind and grabbed his left arm and pulled him around. As a result of this, the captain has a shoulder injury and has been unable to return to work for two months. He is undergoing medical treatment. KAL has stopped his pay. As of this posting, no punishment for the engineer. Probably has been promoted and given a pay raise for assaulting a foreigner.
According to my contact, the disrespect toward foreigners by the korean employees continues to escalate. First officers tell captains they don't have to do what they ask them to do because they are foreigners. Cabin crew and Pursers disregard captain's authority. Etc. etc. Meanwhile KAL continues to have incident after incident from ATC violations to nearly running aircraft out of gas, and that is what we know about.
Up until this point the abuse has been mostly verbal. This is a whole new escalation. He told me this attitude permeates Korean Airlines from the top management all the way to the lowest level. The system is totally dysfunctional. You have to need a job awfully bad to put up with this unprofessional garbage. Buyer beware.

Last edited by Keylime; 30th Mar 2012 at 23:13.
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 00:51
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What a load of crock!

The arrogant thought he could bully and push a puny Oriental around. So when the tables were turned, all sorts of baseless and inciendary accusation came about. Typical fork tongue syndrome!

This is just deserts for the sort of riff raffs that seek fortune in the Orient, all the time crying foul to be seen to be on the high lofty road. Human dregs hoisted well above their stations!
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 01:23
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By his post I think haejankuk has given us a valuable insight into Korean thinking, whether or not the OPs story is accurate or not.

I went to Seoul for the whole KAL charade (silly 8 hour medical) and went through the process, got the job offer, but after observing things and meeting a few expats in a bar for quiet discussion, decided to stay away.
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 01:54
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That post adds credence to the op's story.
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 02:07
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haenjangkuk

That is why a expat is required to flights to the USA. With you'r thinking you will never advance.
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 02:29
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Haenjangkuk has also just had a go at Westerners on the Fragrant Harbour forum.

He seems to like trolling on both Korean and Hong Kong matters. Don't feed him.
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 02:41
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Post # 2 more or less confirms something I heard a long time ago... that every national/racial group in this world secretly considers that their national/racial group is superior to every other national/racial group, whereas the Koreans KNOW that theirs is.

I know quite a few people who have worked in Korea (and some who are still working there). I think it would be true to say that very, very few (if any) wax lyrical about the experience.
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 03:51
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Their history was so insular and they never had to learn to get along with another people unless you count the Japanese colonisation and post war US bases.

Now their economy and wealth has far outpaced their cultural and emotional ability to get on with other nationalities in stressful situations.

That said they are nice and polite but I'd shy from working for a Korean company since the way people respond to you is determined by status and some haven't worked out where you stand.

No doubt there are happy stories around too
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 04:31
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Ouch, ouch, ouch! Haejangkuk, you sure rock; these fellas never learn, always trying to shit around where they eat and sometimes into what they eat too! Tsk, tsk, tsk.
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 05:25
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Perhaps the Delta report needs dusting off and a reread???
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 05:28
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Perhaps the Delta report needs dusting off and a reread???

I have seen it. It is quite a read. It is pretty thick.
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 05:52
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Perhaps the Delta report needs dusting off and a reread???
That's ancient history by now and the Deltoids are not in a position to tell anybody else how to run an airline, they went bankrupt and gave up their pensions and pay in 2005. Copilots on cargo airlines make more than Delta captains these days.

Maybe they will contract KE as consultants on how to make a profit in the flying business.

There is some bogus Delta 'report' done by a sacked KE Kiwi on the 'net that floats around with typical wacko expat stuff about how to fasten shoulder harnesses and when to lower the armrests and other wisdom. It is not all bad but certainly wasn't written by a Delta pilot.

See: korean airlines internal audit safety report

Korean used to be the FedEx of Asia with their frequent hull losses, it does seem that they have cleaned up their act.

Last edited by Airbubba; 31st Mar 2012 at 06:17.
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 07:21
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Close friend and former colleague of mine did a stint there, advised against it, and "saw many reasons why the US should vacate the DMZ and leave them to their own devices"...
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 08:01
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please provide a source for this rumour

1st hand, 2nd hand, 3rd hand?

news link, etc.

Lots of folks are getting wound up already, canceling trips, turning in their badges etc.
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 12:37
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Loma paseo:

After I heard this story from my buddy, I had him put me in touch with the expat who was assaulted. This guy is a very highly qualified pilot. Prior linecheck experience with a major. 15 years training experience. Talked to the guy for about 30 minutes. You can't make this stuff up.
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 12:45
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That's ancient history by now and the Deltoids are not in a position to tell anybody else how to run an airline, they went bankrupt and gave up their pensions and pay in 2005. Copilots on cargo airlines make more than Delta captains these days.

Maybe they will contract KE as consultants on how to make a profit in the flying business.

There is some bogus Delta 'report' done by a sacked KE Kiwi on the 'net that floats around with typical wacko expat stuff about how to fasten shoulder harnesses and when to lower the armrests and other wisdom. It is not all bad but certainly wasn't written by a Delta pilot.

See: korean airlines internal audit safety report

Korean used to be the FedEx of Asia with their frequent hull losses, it does seem that they have cleaned up their act.

Airbubba:

The audit I saw is not the one posted by the Kiwi. I don't know where that came from. The one I saw was the original one done by the Delta team.
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 15:27
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Oh, no! He didn't follow the K Pagee?

For those of you unfamiliar, any "suggested" is mandatory. The earliest you should do something is when you must do something - if not earlier.

Thou shalt not have grey areas.

For example, if the minimum alt for autopilot engagement is 400', then that means its mandatory, to think you could it later would create a grey area or an option.

That also means that on an approach, if the minimums are 200', you don't look for the runway until you get to 200'. Seriously.
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 17:29
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I find this a very interesting thread. I have a friend who was on an MD-11 contract with KAL when he had a serious heart problem in Korea. He was whisked into hospital and received excellent treatment. When he was well enough, he was casevaced back to Europe where he made an excellent recovery.

All bills were taken care of by KAL and they continued to pay him for a whole year after his problem occured.

Things have obviously changed?
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 17:45
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Airbubba:

The audit I saw is not the one posted by the Kiwi. I don't know where that came from. The one I saw was the original one done by the Delta team.
Do you know if the actual audit document is online somewhere? Was the real Delta audit of Korean publicly released, or, if not, how did you run across it?

The document I linked to seems to be often bandied about as the real deal but some of us can see that it clearly was not written by Delta pilots or even Americans. I believe Alex Paterson may have posted it on his website years ago but it now seems to be removed.

Some of the Ozmate AFAP alums were trying to convince me that these were the actual DL-KE audit findings but observations like "Captain over pattered [sic] the FO so much on the approach, the FO was having difficulty concentrating on the flying." and "Loosening of collar and tie reduces fatigue and should be encouraged." tells me that the author(s) weren't a bunch of good ole boys from Atlanta.

And like I said, the Kiwi comments are not all bad, probably authentic but very subjective observations of an individual in response to a request for inputs.
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 19:22
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KAL history

the history the first audit was by a South African Pilot ( not Kiwi). It was filed for the benefit of the Delta reorganization (2000 I believe) The second diatribe was from a failed ex-Delta pilot who was also fired from Delta for fraud. He certainly had some valid points but was a real pain.
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