Polish Government Tu154M crash
 

Sky News - Breaking news that his A/c has crashed on approach in Russia. No further details yet.

Tu154? :(

BBC News saying 87 people killed in the crash, no official report though.

Not good!

BBC Update
 

BBC report as follows -
Russian media reported that 87 people were killed in the crash, but it is not yet known if anyone survived.
The plane was reportedly heading to an airport in the western city of Smolensk when it crashed

It looks that they crashed 1,5km from the runway... :( many highly ranked polish politics were on board... witness said that the A/C had hit trees with left wing during go-around... press say that 87 are dead

Just this brief so far in the U.S - but it is still wee hours here.

Polish president's plane crashes in Russia: official - Europe- msnbc.com

No, scratch that - Google's robots just woke up. A couple of dozen links in the past 5 minutes, include this PPRUNE thread.
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102 - Poland - Air Force Tupolev Tu-154 Aircraft - Brno - Tu?any Photo @ Airplane-Pictures.net

Polish TV
 

The Polish TV informs it was on final in thick fog, then tried a go-around and hit the trees.

The TV reporter in the airport says the visibility was extremely limited to 100-150 meters.

Tonden

On the way to the 70 year Katyn memorial.

What is more giefing, our very old VIP aircrafts were to be replaced few years ago, but due to funds shortage, those old planes were only "refurbished".

They crashed at military airfield near Smolensk. Latest news speculation are that there's no approach guidances. Like during polish military CASA crash, couple years ago. According to polish/russian news agencies 87 ppl (all aboard) lost they lives. Russian news agency ItarTASS website right now is not working.
BBC News.


btw. moderator nice work

What I do not understand is why such a group of people can be on one plane.
As a GM of a middle size company I cannot take the same plane with my CFO.

Tonden

Is there any confirmation on the A/C type?

132 people
TU154M
propably this one:
Photos: Tupolev Tu-154M Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

Not yet but almost certainly one of the state Tu-154s (two, I think they have, no?)

Yea its the Governement TU-154.

Unbelievable.

Out of all the places too, Smolensk on the 70th anniversary of the Katyń massacre, the VIPs of the Polish delegation, in Russia, in a Russian made aircraft...

Showing the first shots of the wreckage now.... scattered in the forest.. doesnt look good.

AC type
 

Sky reporting it was Tupolev Tu-154

I think the BBC reporter in Russia just said it was a TU-154

Tu 154.

No full list of passengers.

Capacity 132, possible 100, confirmed 87 dead.

Polish President with his wife.
Central Bank Governor.
...

...

I think at this stage to make a link with aircraft type and age with the facts as they are currently known makes no sense. :ugh:

Yes, TV says it was TU-154M.
Now they report 1 km visibility and very low clouds.

Tonden

Depending of course on the cause, I guess this could have happened with another type.
Nonetheless it is dissapointing to see a country that escaped the shackles of communism so long ago still persevering with an aircraft that has such a poor safety record.

Of course. It wasn't a mechanical failure, but nonetheless, in last few years polish VIP aircrafts broke few times (I can remember from the top of my head that in one of them engine ccaught fire -- not flameout), so they were not as safe as new planes (and of course I'm aware, that new planes can break too).

Stuknij sie po głowie Tonden..

========================

Showing video of the wreckage... looks pretty bad. Cleared patch of forest where it happened, fires were still being extinguished, wreckage scattered over the forest.

Huge blow for Poland, almost of unbelievable proportions. Plane was full of government VIPs, and all on the anniversary and on the way to Katyń.

Polish tv news are airing now terrible first videos from the site of the crash.
Total burning, smoldering, shattered wreckage.
Some fragments of tail and engines parts are recognizable.
No one could survive such crash :(.

I realise for any Polish person posting here there is an emotional connection, but please, don't try and convince anyone that a Tu154 era aircraft (no matter how well maintained and operated) will achieve anywhere near the level of safety afforded by (for example) a borrowed LOT B737. :=

At least be realistic on that score. Better perhaps to even have spent a few million on a Citation / Falcon , too late now. :{

The video shows clearly intact "black box".

Very important, the area is cordoned by Russian police and secret service.
All journalists materials from the airfield were confiscated.

It is a miracle that this video was transferred to Poland and broadcasted worldwide.

I would suggest it's not exactly the time to start lecturing Polish people about Western vs Eastern built aircraft safety standards

Could anyone find METAR of XUBS (I believe)?

correction UUBS

We have also lost Chiefs of: land forces, air forces, special forces and marine forces, with some accompanying generals.

Edit: there were 132 people on board.

Sad Sad news on so many deaths.

Concerned about confiscation of media material.

Russians will have to realise that it will have to be an open investigation with Western experts doing the lead as anything other than that will not be accepted by Poland.

According to the eyewitness, the plane was banking to the left and struck the ground with the left wing first.

The B-737 design is a few years older than the Tu-154 one.

If the very dense fog/low cloud at Smolensk was the main cause of the crash, the question is, would another plane with newest avionics made the difference?

Arrakis

There were negotiations to lease 2 Embraer 175 from LOT.

The negotiation have been broken few month ago, the reason
was not sufficient range.

At the moment, the reporter, Polish TV technician is confirming live
he was fighting with the police to rescue the tape.
He was in the hotel near the approach path.
He heard the crash, grabbed the camera and was able to take the shots.
He was aware he has to look for black box.

He was later arrested by OMON, but release on protest by Polish officials.

Running now live on Polish TV3 and 3.

there is a photo on jacdec.de

There is nothing inherently unsafe with the TU5. It had it's fair share of accidents, just like the 737, simply on account of being the most numerous type built in the old USSR. However looking at the accidents, most of them can be traced to gross violation of procedures, terrorism, etc. Very few happened due to any mechanical or systems failure (in that comparison, the 73 probably fares worse).

It is an old and by present standards uneconomical design, but if maintained properly (as I'm sure this aircraft was) it can be flown as safely as anything else.

Highly speculative, but this is what a rumour network is for: this may be the ultimate sad case of politicans meddling with airline/aircraft operations. I can very easily envision the scenario where there was enormous pressure on the crew (real or percieved) to complete the flight with marginal weather conditions to an airport with no precision approach. The high ranking person on board was not a particularly easy character to deal with, we will never find out how he may have reacted to the suggestion of delaying or cancelling the flight...

To this add a dash of recent operating environment in WAW - with only Cat II available, standard operating practice of many airlines (including the major local one) in marginal weather (which is basically all winter) was to shoot an approach even if reported minima were below legal, and the co-pilot look out of the window to the right. Once ground was in sight and one particular characteristic buliding was identified just right of the flight path, the call-out 'runway in sight' was made, usually just a second or two before reaching minimums. The runway did appear straight ahead about 5-10 seconds later... I'm reasonably sure the relevant authorities were aware of this practice, and turned a blind eye. Such an attitude will invariably lead to trouble eventually.

Will be interesting to see how these aspects of this sad event will be handled and released.

I remind You all that it is military airfield. No wonder that russian militia overreacted. Still huge informational chaos, concerning lost souls.
They say that russian ATC propossed other landing places.

Not much room for speculation as of now, as nobody knows any real facts.

Reduced visibility alone will not bring down an airplane.

Polish radio reporting that the crash was after three go arounds

They say about 4 misapproaches !!! And 3 survivors (not officialy).

Andrasz:

....last report says it was the 4th approach attempt....

The were number of people waiting in the Katyń Forest
for the President to start the celebrations.

Now official press conference of the Polish Foreign Ministry running.
Passenger list is being verified.
Original list was 89, one person confirmed not appearing on time.
Now 88 dead expected. Not confirmed, not sure if some more persons
missed the departure 7 a.m. LT.

Some unconfirmed rumours three survivors in hospital.

Very sad event,

Image of the aircraft here ....

Photo Republic of Poland Tupolev TU-154M 102