ethiopian airlines aircraft down near Beirut
 

BBC reporting at 0211 UK time.

if so would have been ET409. 737-800 series according to site of Addis Ababa airport.

lebanese national news agency now confirming... (nna-leb.gov.lb)

Reuters says 85 pob , crashed into the sea shortly after takeoff.

A little dramatic as usual but a bit more info than the Beeb for now

Ethiopian Airlines Plane Crashes Into Mediterranean Sea After Taking Off From Beirut | Home | Sky News

If , as the 'reports' say that it crashed 30 / 45 minutes after departure ( take your pick ) , then it would not have been in Lebanese airspace , more likely Larnaca or Cairo FIR , but then nobody would have seen 'flames' at 0330 local . I think more likely a few minutes at most after departure .

BBC now reporting crash happened 'some five minutes after take off'. Wreckage apparently found on beach, 'major rescue operation taking place'.

METAR
 

2010/01/25 03:00 UTC

The observation is:
OLBA 250300Z 06004KT 030V090 5000 VCTS RA FEW020CB BKN026 10/06 Q1014 NOSIG

BEIRUT, Jan 25 (Reuters) - Rescue workers have located the crash site of an Ethiopian Airlines plane that went down just off the Lebanese coast on Monday, Lebanon's Transport Minister Ghazi al-Aridi said.
"(The crash) site has been identified three-and-a-half km (two miles) west of the (coastal) village of Na'ameh," Aridi told reporters at Beirut international airport.
He said search and rescue operations were underway but refused to give any further details. He also said it was too early to say what caused the crash but confirmed the plane took off from Beirut international airport in stormy weather. Aridi said an investigation into the cause was underway.

Thundery weather in the area maybe a contributory factor.

Ethiopian Airlines has issued a first press release confirming the accident, and specifying the nationalities of the eight crew members and 82 pax on board:

Ethiopian | Press Releases

BBC reporting police not suspecting foul play,but weather.

Sorry gents, initial reports are often wrong.
 

Short of a million-to-one lightning strike causing a fire as reported, little else comes to my mind when a modern jet transport burns, then crashes rather than the other way round.

I may have been influenced by pictures of a certain someone in the news lately and the point of departure of that Ethiopian flight.

edit: initial reports, now amended, said that the aircraft was in flames as it went down. Now Sky News among others have changed their tunes.

I stand corrected until further information - accuracy improved - arrives.

BBC reporting Police suspect the weather. Right then, closed.

Well it's certainly an interesting press release from Ethiopian.

It starts with 3 sentences of facts on what's known thus far about the incident (which is reasonable enough).

But it is followed by 5 sentences about how many destinations Ethiopian Airlines serves, how dependable it is (irony is abviously not their strong point), plus how many awards it has won (all be they the self-serving type awards from the 'aviation awards industry', which is a whole industry unto itself! ).

Imho, this is hardly the time for them to be banging their corporate drum. :suspect:

Crash site as described by police is just 2 NM from departure end of runway. Reminds me of Kenya 737-800 Douala.

Ethiopian Airlines website quote...

"ET-409 Incident - 25 January, 2010 :ugh:

Ethiopian flight ET-409 scheduled to operate from Beirut to Addis Ababa on January 25th lost contact with the Lebanese air controllers shortly after take off. The flight departed at 02:35 Lebanese time from Beirut International Airport.
Flight ET-409 carries 82 passenger plus 8 Ethiopian Crew members. Out of the total passengers 23 are Ethiopian, 51 Lebanese, 1 Turkish, 1 French, 2 British, 1 Russian, 1 Canadian, 1 Syrian, 1 Iraqi nationals.
A team is already working on gathering all pertinent information. An investigative team has already been dispatched to the scene and we will release further information as further updates are received."


So as they say,this is only an incident,no need to worry...:suspect::suspect:

Without coming into any conclutions, reasons behind the crash can be various. However fot the numpties, anoraks, alarmist and conspiracy theorist's I've got the following: In many accidents, perhaps most, witnesses report the aircraft being on fire and hearing large explosion before the aircraft reached the surface.

To be fair, the political situation in Lebanon is sensitive to say the least. The PAX manifest, should it contain political players or unlikely PAX, could provide some clue to the possibility of foul play/ illegal interference with the flight. Ethiopian Airlines would be somewhat strange target for the groups targeting West, but Somali militants would certainly have a motive after Ethiopian military action in that country.

As is said, the weather conditions have been bad. It does not take a rocket scientist to understand that a direct lightning strike is not needed to destroy an aircraft.

Regardless, I am sad to hear about the latest loss of life. I've used Ethiopian and I've found their pilots well trained and Ethiopian one of the better Airlines to fly to Africa with a good safety record even by European standards.

First thought same, threemiles.

As far as "numpties" speculating ... its good to see the better press agencies giving us pertinent background info like:

:ugh:

Migrating birds?

Not to mention a single word of regret or condolence...
UV

That's what we call boilerplate at the end of the press release. Most companies have these kinds of self-promoting sections they automatically stick on to the end of every press release. But in this case the juxtaposition with the statement above the boilerplate on the incident creates a rather tasteless document. At the very least, they need a better PR agency.

It's being reported that per BEY ATC, the flight made it to ~8000ft in something like 3 minutes after takeoff in heavy rain, before crashing about 5km off the coast of Beirut.

I have worked with Etheopian pilots and they were very good.

Eyewitnesses regularly report fire and then the crash. This is a normal human factors issue. The speed of light is of a much greater magnitude than sound. You see the flash and then hear the bang. The brain just uses that info to come to a conclusion that the aircraft was on fire before it hit.

Flown with Ethiopian a couple of times and would rate them much higher than a lot of the airborne dross knocking round Europe. Their cabin crew could certainly teach most of the global flag carriers a thing or two about service & pride in their companies. :hmm:

Sad day :(

I will be travelling with Ethiopian on my hols in September , best way to get to Mombasa from the Gulf , and possibly in May also to Lusaka . Never a doubt in my mind , just as I never worry about flying with other carriers who have had the odd tragedy . Their history is very good , they continue to buy new aircraft , standards are high . One swallow does not a summer make.

It's not unusual with bad wx and CB activity around BEY at this time of the year, but to drop out of the sky from 8000ft? Most CB accidents happen at fairly low altitude, but thats not to say you can't loose control if you enter a CB at any altitude.
Provided it's switched on, the NG has got a good radar, so there should not be a problem avoiding bad wx.

Like ThreeMiles earlier in the thread says , it has certain parallels with Douala in plane type , weather and time of incident occuring within the flight. Lets hope answers are found.

BBC news (in London) right now says wreckage found, bodies recovered and no survivors yet.

Lebanese authorities report "heavy storms" when B738 departed.

Sad business when any aircraft crashes.

From The Times (UK): "Michel Sleiman, the Lebanese President, said that authorities had ruled out terrorism or sabotage as the cause of the crash."

That was quick.

I live in Addis and my wife, particularly, and I are regular and happy users of Ethiopian. They seem to concentrate their efforts on safety and good service. Some departments are a shambles and it does not surprise me to see a press release with "inapropriate" boiler plate on it.

My sister was also flying on Ethiopian when this incident occured. Big fear this morning but all is well - she is safely on her way to Uganda after a lay over in Addis.

Oh soorry V1
 

I fail to see where displayed such arrogance in my previous post. I commented on the conspiracy theorists posts on the first page and and obviously ruffled someones feathers.

Fact 1: EU has standards that airlines need to uphold to be able to operate. Most African countries do not have these standards or these are rampantly disregarded. Ethiopia again does have standards fully comparable to EU and enforces these standards. With the latest accident they have 3 fatal accidents including the Comores B767 ditching due to hijacking. So in essence they have a very decent safety record.

Fact:2 Ethiopian troops have been operating in Somalia and Eritrea on different times. For their reasons, valid or not, I don't care either way. Their Somalia operations do make them a potential target for the local militants and their associates. I am not suggesting terrorism as a cause of the accident

Fact 3: There was no information when I wrote my previous post nor is there now, to rule out any single cause for the accident nor is there any info to confirm a cause or causes. I will wait for an answer from the accident investigation.

The PPPPDS ( Professional Pilot PPrUne Disclaimer Statement)
As I said on my previous post and previous lines, I am not suggesting any cause or contributory factor or the involvement of any organisation or indivudual as a cause for the accident.

If it is indeed G-CEJP it bring's it closer to home for me as I accepted the A/C for FGS on it's delivery flight from Boeing.

Remember the comment by the satirical columnist, Roger Bacon, in Flight International many years ago ?

He declared that he was going to fly a pilotless aircraft full of explosive over the next Farnborough Airshow, and remotely detonate it, so that - for once - 50,000 spectators could DEFINITELY state that the aircraft exploded in flight and was on fire before hitting the ground.

JP did head to Ethiopia according to:

GINFO Search Results | Aircraft Register | Safety Regulation

Will have to wait for more information to surface, but a stark reminder of KQ507 that was in a similar predicament. Never really knew what happened in that incident, but hopefully in this case things will be brought to light.

Recent Beirut FIR Wx and ATC
 

Departures from Beirut have an early handover to Lebanese FIR controllers - normally 2000 feet.

This has been a particularly bad winter for extensive lines of thunderstorms lying just off the coast at night. While not extending to anywhere near the altitudes of summer CB activity they have been extremely developed and very densely packed. More cores per unit of airspace if you like. Departures in these conditions can be very difficult as there is no single bit of convective activity you can expect to drift away in the next hour or hours.

Should reports filtering through from Beirut ATCC remain consistent regarding extremely poor wx conditions I, for one, take notice. In my direct and recent experience the controllers there have available a weather radar feed I consider to be at least equal to that on board a 737 NG.

Several of the controllers are extremely adept at offering guidance in these conditions when asked.

Rob

Except that this forum ain't for condolences and sympathies Mr V1 rotate.......

8000' in 3 mins - straight up into potential serious icing in Cbs and with that rate of climb maybe the icing potential wasn't fully thought through with regards to use of EAI. Possibly a contributing factor? Can get pretty nasty over the eastern Med at this time of year..

VIP on Board...
 

"Marla Sanchez Pietton, the wife of the French ambassador to Lebanon, was one of the passengers on board Flight 409 when it crashed".

Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes after takeoff from Beirut - Times Online

Fwiw, I too concur with what PPRuNe Towers has said (above) about Cb activity just offshore at BEY (Orographic uplift?) and of the very able ground based Wx radar system they use.

My most recent flight to Beirut was 21st Jan during which we too had Cb's (plus a quite low freezing level on departure, with ice soon to form under the wiper blade and also on the wiper nut).

ATC were top notch on our arrival (giving us excellent vectors to avoid, i.e. before we had to ask for it) and likewise, pre-takeoff, giving us a clearance that would see us clear the Cb's on the departure track - top stuff!

As for the Cb's themselves, whilst they might not be the size of summer ones, they are not to be under estimated! :}

Hmm, seems to be a confusion going on about the registration. According to Aviation Herald it was ET-ANB not AMZ, supported by the statement of Ethiopian's CEO that the plane was built in 2002.

http://www.avherald.com/h?article=4264b8d5&opt=1

so any final confirmation on the airframe? Just for the record.