ryr Landed In a taxyway by mistake in CAG
 

Comunicati stampa

This is the link for the press room of ENAC the Italian CAA.

Translation plz since I guess im not the only one here not speaking italian? :)

I'm not great on Italian, but ...

A Ryanair flight from Gerona to Cagliari landed on a taxiway instead of the runway.

ENAC (the Italian CAA) has asked the ANSV (the Italian version of the AAIB) to investigate.

Last para: something about the structure of FR and in particular, their training of flight crews.

Ciao.

Here's a link to Cagliari Airport; you can see a fairly wide taxiway parallel to 14/32.

39.251469,9.054283 - Google Maps

Goooooogle version
 

Press release
RYANAIR PLANE VIA lands on taxiway DI CAGLIARI: SURVEY ON ENAC COMPANY AND LEVEL OF TRAINING FOR FLIGHT CREWS
The ENAC said that in the morning today, the Ryanair flight from Girona Assigned Cagliari landed on the road to the airport of Cagliari-block and not on the flight track.
Nell'atterraggio there were consequences for passengers.
The ENAC warned of what the ANSV, National Agency for Flight Safety, the agency owner of the progress of investigations in aviation.
Vito Riggio, the President and CEO Silvano Manera make known to have made provisions to its facilities to launch an investigation into the Irish airline, particularly on the level of preparedness of the crew.
Rome, 12-04-2009


Ciao. :{

DB :ok:

I'll give it a rusty stab:

RYANAIR PLANE LANDS ON TAXIWAY AT CAGLIARI: ENAC TO INVESTIGATE THE COMPANY AND THEIR LEVEL OF TRAINING FOR FLIGHT CREWS

ENAC stated that this morning's Ryanair flight from Girona to Cagliari landed on the airport taxiway rather than the runway,

There was no danger to the inbound passengers.

ENAC has reported the incident to the ANSV (The National Agency for Flight Safety), the investigative authority of aviation.

The President, Vito Riggio, and the Director, Silvano Manera, announced an investigation into the Irish airline, in particular the level if preparedness of the flight crew.

Rome 12 April 2009

Rgds

CAG. The destination "most likely to".

Closley situated parallell runways, the "runway" currently acting as a taxiway and vice versa, offset approach procedure to the taxiway then step across to land, far from obvious situation visually, poorly marked.

Lousy ATC, lousy English, lousy procedures = high workload throughout the approach. Add a bit of inattention and it's an incident waiting to happen, imho. Try and fly this approach visually and I'd say it's almost a certainty.

I'm no great fan of Ryanair, but I feel a wee bit sorry for them. They're not the only ones who need investigation over this...

Thanks guys.
Well, landing om taxiway isnt that bad, I´we heard of aircrafts touching down at the wrong airport. ;)

Italy - lovely country, lovely people but from an aviation point of view approaching third world status methinks.

Commiserations to the guys - just remember the person that never makes a mistake never makes anything.

The hypocrisy of this statement almost brings me to the point of vomiting.

CAG is THE most disorganized, haphazard, "anything goes" airport in Europe. How can one be expected to be prepared when it is not at all untypical to be cleared for up to 7 different approaches from top of descent to landing!? Only when crossing the threshold can one be certain of the approach type and can one be certain of the runway in use. Even as low as 1000ft they will attempt to spring a circling approach on crews.

Every single visit we make there sees a lack of professionalism, effort and downright negligence by both Rome Control and CAG approach brought to ever higher levels. It is total chaos every single time. One only has to look at the Meridiana incident a while back to see what total incompetents the ATC and ENAC in general are.

All the more reason to be on your guard.
Who was flying it? ATC?

The problem is the first time you go there you have no warning. It might have been the Girona crews first time there.

While it is beyond question that ultimately the Crew are responsible, and more so that the Captain has ultimate responsibility, we live in an era of higher awareness of CRM and human factors. Good CRM is about good back up and support by all individuals involved in the handling of a flight.

This concept should extend to ATC too.

In CAG this concept is completely alien. If I was told that ATC were not monitoring the aircraft landing, the most basic function of a Tower controller I would have assumed, I would not be the least bit surprised. If I were in the UK or Germany, I would be quietly confident that the TWR controller would be alert to the possibility of a screw up and would be vigilant. While this does not absolve me of responsibility and I still treat every ATC call with suspicion, one feels like it is a team activity rather then the adversarial role one encounters with Italian ATC. Calling their standards Third World is being generous.

One can expect airline people, whom I assume represent the majority of the posters on here, on the whole to be anti-ryr, but what the hell does "Il Presidente Vito Riggio" know about them?? Il Presidente was what Mussolini was called as well as Il Duce.

In addition, the poster who put up the ryr photos might like to present us with the calculations of the % of 'incidents' that ryr should have, vis a vis other lines, seeing as how they are the largest in Europe?

Bye, Barry

So...this taxiway landing event happened in Italy. Anyone know if the occupants (passengers and crew) of the airplane, ATC, airport personnel, or passerbys been arrested? :}

FWIW, according to a post in the Italian section:

"In Cagliari the taxiway was being used as a runway until last week while the main rainway was undergoing maintenance lasting many months; I don't know if they have changed the markings already... or if the cockpit did have up to date plates"

Looks like ENAC are looking for a revenge against MOL and his comments about birds control in Ciampino.
Fortunately, with the proffessionalism demonstrated by FR crews, no chance ENAC could find anything wrong.
A one off screw up fortunately without any consequences on the flight and passengers.

if you want bashing at least make sure that you are stating facts

Mussolini was Prime Minister, at that time Italy did non have a President. Italy had a King.

Well thats a change... they landed on the taxiway and were a little bit closer to the city centre than usual! :ok:

:=B1003/09 - TRIGGER NOTAM - EFFECTIVENESS OF PERM PROVISIONS PUBLISHED LAST04 DEC 2008 WITH AIRAC AIP AMDT 13/08 AND CONCERNING FLW ITEMSPOSTPONED TO 09 APR 2009:- RE-ESTABLISHMENT OF NORMAL OPERATIONS ON RWY 14/32- NEW AERODROME LAY-OUT- COMPLETE REVIEW OF INSTRUMENTAL APPROACH PROCEDURESTHEREFORE AIP SUP 20/07 WILL BE IN FORCE UNTIL 08 APR 2009AIRAC WILL BE POSTED AND AVBL ON WEB SITE WWW.ENAV.IT. 12 FEB 15:55 2009 UNTIL22 APR 23:59 2009. CREATED: 12 FEB 15:56 2009



ENAC,Italy, Italians,etc : is only a big MISTAKE

Baron Rouge, very bright comment. You are perfectly right, the fault is all of the italians, the flight crew did not have any responsibility at all. It's just a political trick to put Ryanair out of business in Italy. The NOTAM was emitted when the airplane was on short final, so the pilot couldn't react on time. Perhaps also the mafia was involved, don't you think so? And probably the controller didn't advise the Captain because he was having a pizza with pasta at the time so he was too busy. Result: flight crew hero, italians bad guys. :D:D:D

Maybe it's the fact that the locos will accept these sub-standard airfields as acceptable destinations that causes these incidents.

As someone said already, it's not the crew that are ultimately responsible. It's that leech MOL and his management team.




Itsa ajob, to quote O'Leary 'two hull losses'

89polaris;
I was wondering about NOTAM info. It took many posts for it to surface. None yet about the Metar, which is usually posted in great haste. I'm not sure if I understood the Notam. Where am I supposed to land? In northern Europe I'd expect ATC TWR to include in its landing clearance 34 L or R, or some other confirmation of which strip of tarmac to scrub the Dunlops onto. (what is the Italian equivalent of Watford for north/south delination?)

However, when there is doubt there is no doubt, so when in doubt double check. ASK.I'd be curious to know the last time either pilot had visited CAG and which strip they landed on.
There is another point, which I found great resistant to from previous airline managements. Flight preparation time in many airlines is not enough, especially with 4 sector days. Is 15 mins really sufficient. In Italy it is common to have an encyclopedia of Notams. If a destination has a longterm change in procedure or facilities why not have an ALERT white board in the crew room about it. I've seen it done with runway closures at the departure airfield; a full diagram of phase 1,2,3 etc. Why not the same with destinations? There are not that many occaisions. There are other scenarios such as ILS u/s for long periods. A flag up that a different approach and Wx minima are required. It would all help with Flight Safety and speedy flight planning. In these days of no flight dispatchers, and everything being self service, an oversight by the crews is going to happen more often. Every crewroom has a supervisor/manager,handling agent, but sadly their focus is not where it should be.
It will happen again, but there are always the pilots to blame.

A little birdy tells me that 32/14 (which looks like 32L/14R) has been closed for maintenance until a few days ago. And so it was that the taxiway was renumbered 32R/14L and so became the only available runway for some weeks.

Then what looks like 32L/14R became 32/14 again and 32R/14L became the taxiway all over again. It's all very simple really.

So, it sounds like a case of RTFNs (Read the Notams) always assuming that they were put out in good time.

Defence of MOL, versus comment about crew action??
 

There is the odd bit of defence of MOL in this lot. Whilst defence of the crew action due to runway changes is fully understood, who is the MOL fan here?

To give credit to Ryanair, Part C (Airfield Briefings) of our Ops Manual had been updated on the 9th of April to reflect the fact that the main runway was re-opened. The question of whether A) The crews copy was up to date B) It was consulted or C) The runway was misidentified and the Professionals in the Tower were reading La Gazzetta and not doing their job of looking out the window and monitoring aircraft. Or a combination of any and all three.

Silverhawk

Oh Dear:ugh:.

Either an airfield meets internationaly acceptable standards or it doesn't. What's this got to do with Ryanair? Lufthansa and British Airways were on the ramp the last time I flew there along with Meridiana and Alitalia. I don't mind a vaild criticism of Ryanair but make a vaild point!

CAG

The worst ever airport I flew to. It is worst than any airport in Africa !!!!!

Isn't this the airfield where an italian airline (Meridiana I think) was told by the tower to go-around several times on short finals due to birds and then charged with landing without clearance when they decided the safest course of action was to land. I have not been there for a while but I remember ATC making it hard going, with last minute instructions for a circle to land etc. We were forewarned, but the guys following us in definitely sounded stressed.

I don't wish to be a killjoy here..... but there seems to be an awful lot of speculation and anecdotal evidence relayed.

I know that the Italian justice system works in a different way compared to that of the UK but ENAC and aviation in Italy is not *that* bad.....

Could we try to wait for some sort of report from people who get reasonably full information as to what happened, before we blame MOL / MOL's flunkies / some accountants / Irish CAA / captain / FO / ATC / Jeppesen / ENAC / the bloke in charge of painting the runway / the mafia / the little old lady down the road who runs the sweetshop / the sun for shining too much

Carmosine, does Ryanair have an ASO? Or Air Safety Department?

This is all very disappointing. I was expecting a much more tolerant attitude by the employees of a big multi-cultural company such as Ryanair.
I can only read adversion towards Italy and Italians. Fine.
No suprprise there: Italians and Britons do not like each other, they never did and never will. Having said that, is there any fact to help us understand how it happened?
If you're happy with the explanation "because it's Italy" will you kindly move on to the next thread?
And can anybody answer this: I have always had the impression that Ryanair is rather slow to adapt to changing scenarios. An example: it's been a few months since the introduction of new CDRs within Amsterdam UIR, almost everybody is using them when possible (Scandinavian, British Airways, Easyjet to name a few) but Ryanair. How happens? Can this be related to this incident? Is there sufficient staff to track all this changes (routes, NOTAMs...) and brief the crews? (I might as well have said "are they all reading the Sun instead of NOTAMs?" but I didn't ... or did I?):}

All my thought are going to the crew .
Hey guys i understand do not blame yourself too much
I'have been in italy for a long time , and yes CAG it's a nightmare as well as other places
RYR as nothing to do with that , it could happen to any other airlines
On top of that i have to admit that the safety records of RYR is amazing .
wait & see the investigation , i just hope that the political problems of the national carrier of Italy will not interf with the real problems
Italy is a great country with great pilots But ATC !!!!!!!:uhoh:

Cheers

Yes we have a Flight Safety Officer. I think it's an EU-OPS requirement? Anecdotally I note that my fellow crew are slightly reluctant and not very proactive about using the Confidential reporting system or filing Captain's special reports. I can't explain it, the company has requested them and I have found the FSO very welcoming of such reports and willing to act.

Hang on, two? Was there another besides Ciampino?

Sorry to disappoint you, but you mixed up things.
The press release is from ENAC (Ente Nazionale per l'Aviazione Civile), the Italian CAA.
The Italian AAIB is the ANSV (Agenzia Nazionale per la Sicurezza del Volo).

BR,

aerolearner

What action has he taken to sort out the repeated incidences of Approach and Landing accidents/incidents?
That one didn't count. Nobody got killed.

GR, I'm but a mere line Pilot. I don't know, you'd have to ask him. However I perceive a lack of proactive reporting by crews, it's swept under the heading of "just a typical day at CAG" when they and Rome control should have their arses kicked for such a lack of co-ordination. Perhaps no such reports have been received?

Carmoisine, could you please further elaborate on this lack of coordination, and more in general on the Cagliari ops?

I'm by no means looking for an argument here: just wondering what the operational issues are, and how the 'customer experience' is adversely affected (not in Italy as a whole, I'm interested in Cagliari).

Cheers!

RAT 5
 

I guess we all should wait for deeper analisys before issue verdicts. A/G communications, crew and atco reports etc.

But...
Wowwww... what a great explanation... :sad: ...so next landing in BOS (an airport used to "have an encyclopedia of Notams") will be on 22L regardless of NOTAMs... because on 22L was my last one... :{according to the posted NOTAMin CAG there is one RWY only: 32/14, no more. Anyway I can realize the reason of misunderstanding, you admit yourselfand
If you visit the already posted link you'll find it. And you can find also the expired Italian AIP SUP 20/07, referred into the NOTAM, with a simply search.

Simply spend few minutes instead to read the Mirror... :=

A-3TWENTYThis says a lot about your limited experience.

Ciao... pizza is waiting for me... :} :} :}

quixeven

Rome Control seems to have a very tortured communication link with CAG APP. They have absolutely no idea of the runway in use at Elmas despite giving the initial descent and arrival routing. Despite the fact that the ILS was out of service for the best part of a year they were advising us to expect a LOC approach. We'd plan for such, then arrive near the field at FL220 to be told by CAG APP that 32 was no longer available, join the 14 NDB straight in approach with 20 track miles to touch down, having intially expecting to route with many track miles via Carbonara VOR. We are happy to join any approach and help out ATC but we need to be kept informed of important information like runway changes and approach types. We can't just switch at the last moment. It's being asked to maintain high speed of 320Kts and then changing to CAG and being instructed to expidite speed reduction to minimum clean. No one really seems to know what is happening with the other.

While of course misunderstandings and mistakes can happen on both sides, this type of thing happens almost every trip to CAG.

Silverhawk

I do not accept your point of view I am afraid as it seems to have very limited horizons, CAG is just one of thousands of airfields globally which can accept jet public transport equipment. I agree, to be fair, that these airfields can and should be placed under pressure to improve, happy to accept the landing/nav/handling fees, unwilling and slow to invest sometimes.

Ultimately we can (no criticism to RYR at all) make these fields safer by using mental flexibility and situational awareness, use energy management and forward planning to allow for any type of approach to either/any rwy. Discuss the prescence of Deci and be aware of the effect of a close in military airfield to options available to the controllers, tune in to your flt deck buddy and pop some extra gravy into the mains to alleviate the perceived pressure.

Can be good fun as well, no stress from me towards Ryr mates as those guys fly to a lot more challenging airfields than most with probably 10 times as many movements as some of the charters.