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AF 744 off runway at Montreal
Just reported that an Air France 744, operating as AF 346, arriving from CDG, ran off runway 24R on landing; no reports of injuries.
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:confused: I'm heading to the airport right now! will try to take some pictures!
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An Air France jet has skidded off the runway at Montreal's Trudeau
Air France flight skids off runway in Montreal airport
Canwest News Service Published: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 An Air France jet has skidded off the runway at Montreal's Trudeau International airport this afternoon, but there is no word yet on damage or injuries, Montreal police confirm. Air France jumbo skids off Montreal runway |
Doesn't look tres serieuse; all pax (491!) are being evacuated by buses, rather than slides; no apparent damage to the avion.
Le phew! Un boeing d'Air France fait une sortie de piste - LCN - Régional |
Fox News showing live footage. Does not look too bad. Reporting 500 PAX, sounds a bit high.
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I saw that plane over my house just before the outer marker while I was cooking juicy burgers. Everything normal; plane that is.
It's a plane hard to miss due to it's size and noise. Landed at 148 kts gnd speed (flightaware) Pics at: Air France plane skidoff the runway? - Page 3 - YULAviation MONTREAL - An Air France Boeing 747 arriving from Paris skidded off the runway at Montreal's Trudeau International airport after it landed Tuesday afternoon. "The plane overshot the runway when it landed and got stuck in the grass," said Laurent Gingras of Montreal police. "There were no injuries." Video of the airplane shows no signs of major damage. Emergency vehicles surrounded the jumbo jet at the airport as crews worked around the aircraft, which was stuck in the grass beside the runway. Some 500 passengers were on the large-bodied plane, and were being taken off the plane by emergency services. The airport remains open and television footage showed planes continuing to take off and land. © Canwest News Service 2008 . |
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LiveATC, starts after 15:00,
(quick translation) ATC "Westjet 204, clear landing 24R, traffic is being cleared" ATC "AFR ...cleared 24R and B2, hold short 28 (ah ah)", AFR "AFR, we have entered the grass, engines idling, call emergency services" ATC "Westjest, pull-up climb 3000, traffic on runway" AFR "AFR, do you see smoke (or fire)" ATC "negative" ATC "trucks on the way" : http://archive-server.liveatc.net/cy...2008-2130Z.mp3 (yulaviation) . |
Flight Detent - LOL!
Must have been the weather conditions - The dreaded 30 SM approaches. YUL 270007 270000Z 26003KT 30SM FEW240 18/10 A3008 RMK CI0 SLP1 262307 262300Z 26004KT 30SM SCT240 21/10 A3007 RMK CI1 SLP1 262207 262200Z 27004KT 30SM FEW240 22/10 A3007 RMK CI1 SLP1 262107 262100Z 26008KT 30SM SCT240 21/10 A3007 RMK CI2 SLP1 261907 261900Z 28007KT 30SM BKN240 20/09 A3010 RMK CI2 SLP1 261807 261800Z 27008KT 30SM BKN240 19/09 A3010 RMK CI2 CONT 261707 261700Z 27009KT 30SM FEW210 BKN240 18/09 A3012 RMK C 261607 261600Z 29010KT 30SM FEW030 SCT240 18/09 A3013 RMK C 261511 261500Z 04002KT 30SM FEW035 SCT240 17/08 A3013 RMK C 261407 261400Z 35008KT 30SM FEW210 BKN240 16/08 A3013 RMK C |
Not the old hand mic cable jammed in the nws tiller trick..... :eek:
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Not the old hand mic cable jammed in the nws tiller trick..... |
AF seems to have problem landing in Canada !
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No It's spelt Vin-Rouge :)...How did the plane start turning into the grass...theres plenty of runway ahead :confused:
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Friends,
here comes something completely off topic. I enjoy reading Pprune, not only for the discussions, but also for the humor in many of the comments. Earlier today this thread deviated into the difficulty with different languages at airports, totally irrelevant for the topic, as was commented by a number of posts: One stating that the thread was of topic with the focus on language, and his wifes theory of what happened probably was the best so far, namely that he was turning to avoid a cat:) This was followed by a post saying: Maybe it was a 'chat':ugh::):) This more or less made my day, and I was digging in to pprune now to see what the follow up's of this would be. Of course the mod's were right to remove the of topic posts, but I would have liked the continuation of this. Safe flying FH |
but I would have liked the continuation of this |
A few pics
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Anyone here a tire burning expert.
Maybe #4 engine reverse was stuck at full rev thrust and / or #1 stuck at high forward thrust ? Also, looks like left-port side brakes were braking less than right side, and the nose wheel may have temporarily been stuck massively pointing right. As if left brakes failed or the right brakes locked up. Surprised we don`t see anti-skid pulses in the markings, maybe it failed. Also note the nose wheel tracks are not identical, the port one is wider than the right-starboard. . |
Wide-angle lens effect I think alph2z.
Trompe l'oeuil as they say. |
That's no wide angle effect I'm afraid.
S. |
Also note the nose wheel tracks are not identical, the port one is wider than the right-starboard. |
Audio of incident already available at LiveATC
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maybe a malfunction on the Body main landing gear steering system ...
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Speculation:
Either No1 Thrust lever was "Stowed" instead of the speedbrake, leading to GA thrust on No. 1 Engine - only a couple of seconds at that thrust would be needed, or whilst stowing the speedbrake No.1 Thrust lever was caught on the long sleeve shirt/cufflinks of the pilot stowing the speedbrakes. Some airlines have procedures whereby no "cleaning up the aircraft" is allowed until the aircraft is clear of the RWY, in contact with GND control and at taxi speed. The origin of these procedures was a similar incident. Don't know if that policy applies in AF or not. |
Either No1 Thrust lever was "Stowed" instead of the speedbrake, leading to GA thrust on No. 1 Engine - only a couple of seconds at that thrust would be needed, or whilst stowing the speedbrake No.1 Thrust lever was caught on the long sleeve shirt/cufflinks of the pilot stowing the speedbrakes. Some airlines have procedures whereby no "cleaning up the aircraft" is allowed until the aircraft is clear of the RWY, in contact with GND control and at taxi speed. The origin of these procedures was a similar incident. Those few seconds when you transition to nosewheel steering and turn off the runway are a little awkward in a widebody, you want to keep rolling to make sure your tail is clear of the runway but you try not to commit to a particular taxiway until you are sure that's what the controllers want you to do. |
Interesting D.Lamination,
Assuming the pilot's desire to keep the aircraft on the runway it is weird that there are starboard main-gear tire marks. I guess they wanted to stop the plane asap by applying all brakes, and worried less about the nose going right. My reflex would have been to keep the plane on the runway, ... but i wasn't there. . |
Flaps are up so they did part of the after landing check on the runway...unless they did a flaps up landing. :eek:
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Or perhaps the flaps were retracted in the shut down checks? :rolleyes:
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Interesting. My airline requires the handling pilot to stow the speedbrake after landing before the non-handling pilot starts the after landing checks. As P2 it's quite a stretch to stow the speedbrake whilst operating the tiller, and would be quite easy to advance #1 throttle. Perhaps I can look forward to a change in SOPs?
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My airline - CA does speedbrakes, FO does flaps. No reaching across throttles, etc, etc, by either pilot.
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Air France wrote off a 747-200 some years ago in Rio de Janeiro when the aircraft did a ground loop.
Accident Air France Flight B747 F-GCBC - Airfleets Perhaps the French government should should ban Air France from its own airspace, considering the hull losses and accidents their ariline has had over recent years? |
re SOPs
Air France SOP s are no" cleaning up " of airplane until clear of the runway and at normal taxi speed
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Originally Posted by Poof in Boots
Air France wrote off a 747-200 some years ago in Rio de Janeiro when the aircraft did a ground loop.
[link] Accident Air France Flight B747 F-GCBC - Airfleets "People on board 273 (273 Passengers et 0 crew members)" |
Could this be a repeat of the Tahiti incident?
AirDisaster.Com: Accident Photo: Air France F-GITA Note #1 engine in forward thrust and the others in reverse. Dave |
AF744 of runway at YUL
In over 8000 hrs on the same type I have never seen a hint of the #1 thrust lever being mistaken for the spoiler handle (speed brake). That doesn't mean it hasn't happened, just never seen it myself. What I do know is that a very good friend of mine landed in SEA on the same type and as they were approaching taxi speed they encountered an uncommanded full deflection of the body gear steering. He jumped on the binders but could not stop the aircraft from exiting the side of the runway. Fortunatley there was a hi-speed turnoff right there and he stopped on hard surface. That was at least 5 years ago and still haven't heard the reason. Boeing joined our company maintenance in the investigation. Witnesses (pax) reported sudden braking....sounds familiar.
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Rio, Tahiti et maintenant YUL. est-il une problem seulement avec air france?
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est-il une problem seulement avec air france? But on a serious note, maybe the AF SOP?? |
Air France has had many crashes in the past few years. More so than its competitors or similar size airlines. Something is wrong but being French will be covered up.:ooh:
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Air France has had many crashes in the past few years. More so than its competitors or similar size airlines. It is odd that some carriers seem to have hull losses every two or three years, regular as clockwork, while others go decades without losing a plane. American probably had the longest safe streak ever in number of operations from the DC-10 engine separation at ORD in 1979 to the Cali 757 crash in 1995. FedEx on the other hand has had several widebody hull losses in the past fifteen years. The cause is not low pay and poor maintenance, they are probably the highest paid pilots in the world right now and the company is consistently profitable. Fortunately, they fly freight and there have been no fatalities on the mainline (the feeder casualty rate is horrific from what I read). |
Airbubba;
American probably had the longest safe streak ever in number of operations from the DC-10 engine separation at ORD in 1979 to the Cali 757 crash in 1995. |
Anyhoo, it sure takes some steam out of AF's sails for their lawsuit against everyone they could think of re the YYZ overrun...
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