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SAS Q400 gear collaps CPH 27/10
Sadly it happened again. 16:53 LT a SAS Q400 had gear collaps on right main gear at CPH.
SK2867 coming from Bergen. 3rd time with right MG collaps on Q400 in SAS in very short ime. No fire reported. AC landed on foam, according to press right now. No fatalities. One RWY closed in CPH. Edit: Video footage now of landing. R/H MG did not appear to be down at all, or possibly only partially extended. R/H prop feathered. Politicians out now saying that Q400 must be suspended permanently. (Election going on now....) |
pic in this danish article
http://politiken.dk/indland/article407463.ece Can this be the same fault as before ? I thought it was rectified. oh dear...:bored: |
as a result are all SAS Dash 8 Q400 grounded by the scandinavian CAA's immediately according to the danish newspaper JP http://jp.dk/indland/article1145796.ece (danish).
René |
Scratching of head. 3 times with same operator in relatively short period of time, and despite recent inspection (and mod?). Odd to say the least.
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SAS press release:
2007-10-27 Regarding Scandinavian Airlines flight SK 2867 Scandinavian Airlines regrets to confirm that one of its aircraft, a Dash 8- 400 with registration number LN-RDI and flight number SK 2867 from Bergen to Copenhagen was involved in an accident at Copenhagen airport , at 16.55 hrs local time today. We can confirm that there were 38 passengers and 2 infants and 4 crew members onboard. Prior to the accident problems with the main landing gear was reported. All Dash 8-400 aircraft within the SAS Group will be grounded until further notice. SAS is doing everything possible to assist all passengers. SAS will provide further information as soon as it becomes available, see www.flysas.com The media information center can be contacted at the following number: +46 8 797 29 44 SAS Group Corporate Communications http://www.sas.dk/templates/Flexible...epslanguage=EN |
I agree..
One can only totally agree with Avman. Has it ever happened before that three almost identical SERIOUS incidents/accidents in such a short time plague the same carrier?
My SAS stocks keep falling and falling :ugh: I'm starting to loose my belief in this company. Something drastic needs to be done or soon I won't even be able to give them away. Most other carriers post record profits, which could have been the case of SAS as well, if it wasn't for the DASH disaster. This combined with their strikes of course. Does anyone know if this plane was also based in CPH? Without pointing fingers one must start to wonder about what is going on in CPH. Thank god for the solid gear of the DASH-6 I currently fart around in. Three down and welded :) .. Maybe Bombardier should consider going back to this fool proof construction. /FlyTCI |
Maybe Bombardier should consider go back to this fool proof construction. |
At TV, it looked like the right main gear was not anywhere near down this time.
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No gear..
Looking at the video posted in the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet, at www.aftonbladet.se, it doesn't appear as the gear was even out of the well at all. Sorry for not being able to psot the link for the video. Maybe someone else can help :\ .
Once again a good job done by the crew. Quick emergency evac to say the least. /FlyTCI |
Video link from the above news link...
http://politiken.dk/poltv/?ExtID=2425 The landing looked pretty sweet this time. Did they shut down / reduce power on the no.2 engine on short final? |
"Did they shut down / reduce power on the no.2 engine on short final?"
It sure looks so to me..Prop at least in feather on short final.. |
congrats to the crew and capt. the landing was text book and the punters got out in jig time. well done. I am afraid that the Q400 is doomed....what a piece of sh"t.
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Doomed?
There are a lot of Q400s flying in the US and other countries without any gear failures. It seems that only SAS is having all of the failures.
Could the problem be in maintenance procedures and not design flaws? |
Bearcat - I have to disagree with you - the Q400 is not ****
There are loads operated in the world in Europe and USA - how many have had this....3 all with SAS!? Rather than direct all the problems to the D4 why not focus on SAS.......all airlines were required to ground a/c with more than 10000 cycles and all were/are fine so why SAS???? |
SAS has all the old -400's they will therefore find all the problems and honestly the -400 is a lemon. Beancounters loves it because it sips fuel. Pilots hate it because its unforgiving and just keeps comming up with new problems. Heard a pilot say that he loved the simulater checks because there he had an idea of what would happen, in the air the plane would come up with something new all the time.
Oh and this being election-time in Denmark the politicians are jumping at this one, one them has been out saying that he want's the -400's type license in europe cancelled. |
Well I flew it for 2 years and loved it, had a few minor snags but no more than I get flying an airbus now.
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Not quite fair to say SAS have all the problems - the Q400s in Japan have had incidents too. They are still selling (unidentified order of 10 this week) but Goodrich better figure out what's going on soon or Bombardier's bill from SAS for 70 million or so will be small potatoes.
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Not quite fair to say SAS have all the problems - the Q400s in Japan have had incidents too. The thing is that there are quite a few operators with fairly large Q400 fleets who don't seem to experience any major problems, only the usual sort of snags which would be experienced with any type. |
SAS have all the early airframes - only a matter of time until other operators start having problems as well.
Lightweight and fragile... |
Tyrolean also operate most of the earlier -400s. :uhoh: but haven't had any of those problems with the gear so far...
Maybe it's got something to do with the cold, salty air SAS aircraft are parked in most the time ;) |
Forget the Q400, the first time I was scheduled to pax on a Dash 8, I did a bit of sniffing and it emerged that they had a history of gear failure.
This was quite a while ago. Somethings not quite right. |
Age is one issue, but hrs and cycles would be more interesting to look at.
How someting like this could happen after the operator, aircraft manufacturer, landing gear manufacturer and various regulating agencis have inspected the Q400 and given a thumbs up for its return to service, is beyond me. It shall be very interesting to see what they will do now? A lot of Canadians working overtime the next few weeks, thats for sure. |
Do SAS tend to land Flap 15 rather than the slower/lower energy Flap 35 that most others seem to use?
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It's just you, bb.
3 very professionally handled emergency landings without loss of lives. Accidents by definition, but crash is not on my tongue. Very well done, SAS guys! |
Well done to the SAS pilots. :D
Dash 8-400 fleet grounded - at least you guys can enjoy some well earned time off.:ok: |
Waveman - as far as I'm aware Flybe is the only 400 operator that recommends flap 35 landings as the standard, and this is due to the larger proportion of shorter runways on the their network.
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It is very concerning when you have 3 similar incidents in the same company. There must be something that has caused the difference. I can't imagine that FlyBE work their a/c any less hard than SAS. Could it have something to do wit the conditions that SAS operate them in.
I can't imagine they get any easy time in the winter. Pure speculation of course. I hope they find a cure pretty sharpish, or it could be big trouble for Bombardier. |
Guys, is it just the SAS fleet that are grounded or does it include others like before please??? cheers
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The right main gear failed to extend. I got this link from a friend in Scandiland;
http://gfx.dagbladet.no/pub/artikkel...1193520178.jpg Picture taken from the aircraft. |
much different fault than before then!!
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Is it just me who finds it slightly odd that the last two SAS Q400 incidents have been captured on video camera? Not CCTV, but really quite good quality footage?
And no, I'm certainly not trying to start a conspiracy theory or anything like that, am just curious about it! |
This is probably spells the end of the Q400 with SAS. I don't see how they could possibly restore public confidence in this aircraft, after this accident. Even if it turns out that the last accident have no connection to the first two.
I predict no more Q400 flights for SAS and a massive payout for Bombardier. |
Is it just me who finds it slightly odd that the last two SAS Q400 incidents have been captured on video camera? |
Video footage
Andy
Not really suspicous at all actually. According to news articles they were circling for about two hours before deciding to "take the plunge" and land.. Lots of time for people who monitor frequencies or are planespotting to get their cameras ready. Maybe it's time for SAS to book some spots in the CRJ sim now, if they dare to go with Bombardier again that is. /FlyTCI |
how could you, bear say this great aviation machine is a piece of sh@t? well as a commercial airliner it is not holding upto the standards of other craft...yes it has'nt fallen out of the sky but the gear issue imo is bloody unacceptable to the extent the guys in sas dont need sim checks as there are doing all the drama on the line. I make no apology, this aircraft is scrappers material. The fare paying punter will sh#t themselves everytime the gear goes down hoping success....thats not on.
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That's three now?
No casualties, no fire. Just as well they grounded them. Next time the wing may touch down just a bit harder, and the media will get the fireball they were hoping for. |
Norwegian CAA stated to NRK (TV) that it "...will be a long time..." before the Q400 is allowed into the air again.
I remember the early days of Q400 i SAS service. It was a bit of a turkey then too, with spurious fire indications with associated diversions. And snags on the ground. At Ängelhom we ran out of ramp space once in 02 due to broken Q400s. (Yes, yes..... tiny ramp :) ) |
There is a certain runway deicer in use in some of the airports that SAS serves that EATS landing gear and carbon brakes, and has certainly caused problems on the bigger aircraft in the fleet.
This runway deicer is not that widely used elsewhere I wonder if this is a factor? :confused: |
Norwegian CAA stated to NRK (TV) that it "...will be a long time..." before the Q400 is allowed into the air again Preamble: This is a continued airworthiness issue and is allowed for in the design and original certification of the aircraft so as long as it is not in violation of its original certificate basis (wear, useage, maintenance, operation, environment etc.) then the issue is expected to be addressed under the continued airworthiness part of the regulations (identify and fix it). If it was misidentified or an inadequate fix, then the regulator needs to hold somebody's feet to the fire long enough to get it fixed. The time frame is up to both the operator and the certificate holder, the regulator might ask for more data, but they just can't ignore data and sit on their hands as a form of punishment. So in short, even if the manufacturer or the operator screwed up, it's up to them to set the time frame for recovery. If the regulator tries to go beyond this they might as well pull the certificate of either one or both for all products they operate or design. |
Bombardier Press Release
Bombardier Q400 Scandinavian Flight Sk2867 Incident Toronto, October 27, 2007 Bombardier confirms that a Bombardier Q400 aircraft S/N 4024 registration number LN-RDI operating as flight SK2867 from Bergen to Copenhagen, was involved in an incident at Copenhagen Airport at 16:55 local time on October 27, 2007. There were no reported injuries to the 40 passengers and 4 crew members on board. According to preliminary information, the incident involved the main right hand landing gear, which failed to fully extend for landing. There appears to be no relationship between this incident and previous SAS Q400 main landing gear incidents. While SAS has decided to ground their Q400 fleet until further notice, Bombardier has advised all Q400 operators via an All Operator Message (AOM) of this incident but is not recommending changes to their normal on-going Q400 flight operations. Bombardier is cooperating fully with SAS and the investigating aviation authorities and has dispatched a product safety and technical team to the site to fully support and assist in the investigation. Until such time as the authorities release any information or findings, Bombardier cannot comment further or speculate on the potential cause of this incident. |
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