DHL aircraft under attack
 

Today i heard there was a DHL aircraft under attack in Iraq and apparently it is the third one since July. Can anybody confirm the story.

That would fit as it is a war zone after all.

Tombstone regulation comes to mind here. It will continue to be safe until an aircraft is shot down (resulting in fatalities), then said company will deem it unsafe, for a period, then flights will be resumed.

This of course is another glaring example of pilot's unable to "stick together" as a group to not only enforce decent salaries but on matters of safety, which is even more disturbing. You can guarantee there wont be one rule broken on those flight decks and all sops will be obeyed and carried out to the "letter" and all departures as published. Why?? Because of matters of safety!! Then WTF are they doing operating in a WAR ZONE? Is this not a safety related matter? Corporate greed guys, that's what it is. I wonder how much more money you are being paid to go in there, or are you ordered to go by some fat b:mad:d hiding behind a desk?

Maybe I have got it all wrong.:ugh:

as it always happens. will see if we get this story right .:\

Would Joehunt care to ammend his post to "anOTHER a/c gets shot down."???

If DHL are still operating here, his prophesy has already been proven true....

Stay safe out there. UE

Amended with additions Sir!

yep a mortar shell landed one gate over from where they (turbo prop) were parked in Basrah in July.
today heard that 'the boys had a truck bomb shake the plane' (727, but don't know where in Iraq)
don't forget yer flak jackets, lads.:uhoh:

About a week ago, a 727 had a terrible shake while parked in Mosul. The mortar landed within 60 meters of the right wing! The crew thought a truck had hit the acft in the back.

Mortars impacts have been observed there several times before that incident, since the acft is parked close to the fence and the airport is surrounded by the city.

The airline director and the inspector at the civil aviation authority ( the little king ) are still very happy with safety conditions there and have not suspended the flights.

The airline director is putting enormous pressure on the crews to continue the flights to Mosul and threatened to terminate whoever does not want to get the job done. A lot of pilots are still refusing to fly to Mosul.

The acft in Basrah was actually hit by debris of the mortar and was damaged. The crew was at the acft at the time, but luckily was not hurt.

The truck bomb yesterday in Balad was reported as a controlled explosion by DHL security, although it resulted in several fatalities!

Supposedly, DHL in Germany would allow flights to Iraq only if the safety conditions are satisfactory!:oh:

What about the February attack, when the 727 chief pilot approached into Mosul and was fired upon with a mortar at 150 agl prior to touchdown?

A report was filed and was kept confidential.To this date , still no news about any incident in Mosul.

The airline director still believes ,that landing in Mosul is safe, even though he now requires the crews to wear personal protection equipment.

Supposedly, there is a secured corridor that should allow a safe approach, BUT the americans have denied it ever existed due the lack of military resources.

Go figure!:{

I don't quite know where this thread is heading but are any of you out there really trying to tell me that being attacked in Iraq would come as a surprise to any of the crews who have decided to operate therein during the current climate?

If so, then they are immensely naive or they are being paid a lot of money!

I got the "being shot at bit in the Middle East" out of the way when I was in the military. There simply isn't enough money in the world to persuade me to do it in my leisure (civilian) time!

A German company will authorise its crews to operate in a war zone, but the German government will not allow its military personnel to go to the front line in Afghanistan in support of a NATO operation. The DHL crews should send white feathers to Angela Merkel.

it would be interesting to find out the details of the attack on the turbo prop .this is serious especially if an A/C was damage in the process. what about the pilots? where they close to the A/C ? these are questions to be answer since i am pretty sure people less ordinary than myself are probably reading this. :ugh: . what can i says guys be carefull out there it is a war after all.

PS thinking of it, maybe if it help i will send this thread to your news papert o see what they can dig up.

PS (little King )???????????? any explanation:\

Achtung! I am upset with your CAA guys. It must be lenient in my opinion. Shame! I don't see the German CAA authorizing such flights.Where is your Authority?

I believe DHL is having double standards when it comes to safety overseas. Don't you have someone in charge of the safety of your work place?

I hope someone will be able to stop this non sense before there is a loss a life! I remind you that your Airbus crew was extremely lucky to survive.Can't DHL learn from past accidents?

Seriously,your lives are worth much more than that.

DHL is german owned but the German CAA has nothing to do with it ,im not sure what airline is opperating these flight ,it might be a spanish one or one based in Bahrain.
DHL doesnt care about the safety they care about the money

Neil

i heard they don't have a director of safety anymore for at least 4 months. I think no one is crazy enough to take this position. or maybe you should give it to you Airline director who is maintenance director as well i hear:ok:

Yes , A aircraft sustained damage from IDF[Mortar]on the ramp at ORMM. Lucky the crew had PPE.[personal protection equipment].

P P E for Iraq crews .

1 RayBans :ok:

2 Condom :ok:

You are good to go boys

Safety 1st :ok:

Bye

DHL
 

The DHL "airline" director obviously has no clue what he is doing! Again. (I could comment on the "maintenance" of the fleet but will reserve that for future). Okay, so he flew to Mosul and spent a night in the military base, BIG WHOOP!! Try flying into and out of said base regularly. Bet he had to change his underwear on landing anyway.

The fact remains that regardless of how many measures you take on the ground, that the REAL danger is while in the air, on approach and departure. All very well to have published company "procedures" regarding arrivals and depature from these airfields. Management know all too well that the DHL procedures are hardly ever followed due to the volume of traffic and US military controllers giving absurd instructions like "descent to 4000ft" while still 10-15 NM out from any given field. As long as the job gets done.. Worse still, some DHL pilots actually comply with these ATC instructions! It boggles the mind why anyone would be so stupid as to not realise that, as soon as one of the DHL aircraft get shot out of the sky, while tootling along at 4000 ft AGL over very hostile territory, that DHL and the "life insurers" will wash their hands clean of any liability by reminding your grieving widow and children/parents that you did not follow company procedure and that they are, "unfortunately" not entitled to any financial payout.

I say, comply with the procedure, if unable to complete the full procedure due to traffic etc, divert and return to homebase. Watch the pressure mount when you actually comply with written company procedures and the job does not get done.... I believe that you would be "invited to resign" by the airline manager rather quickly, as demonstrated by him recently when crew refused to fly to Mosul after the mortar attack. Same goes for flying into Iraq at night, WRITTEN DHL company procedures state clearly that no night flying in Iraq is allowed, how is then that certain flights are planned into Iraq at night? How is it that certain crew accept these flights? Because the usual spin is "that particular field is perfectly safe, even at night", okay, which of the other DHL procedures can we choose to ignore then in the future??

Sounds dangerous and not for the faint of heart.

The danger money you DHL Pilots get for these operations must be amazing:ok:

Danger Pay????? Are you serious, Iraq is not dangerous AB proved it .Get real buddy! This is just a job and nobody here deserves danger pay.
Besides if it was that dangerous one would expect better maintenance, not 4 engines in 6 months and C checks done in Addis Abbaba where any box can be ticked for the right amount.:=

Mickey....
 

Mate, if they are capable of aiming a mortar at an aircraft approaching at 150 aggles, sorry dude...but those cats need to be out of there as that is bloody impossible!!!

An RPG, Recoilless rifle, Strella or similar, but a mortar...pffft yeah right!!

Once on the ground, yup, they are fair game! :hmm:

Now is the DHL contract run under 'DHL' callsign or are they using their other pseudonyms like "PHG" "British Gulf" and the list goes on.....:rolleyes:

I cant see what all the fuss is about. Well I never saw any dead bodies, so it must be safe! Right?

Now you good chaps, go back to work so I can continue to make money, while I dodge the flak from behind my desk.:}

It amazes me that civilian pilots are willing to fly into a war zone.

How can safety standards go any lower? There must be no more 'line in the sand'.

After the frightening return in the A-300 with all hydraulic systems lost, it was my impression that European DHL pilots refused to go back. Were they offered just a little more money, or what?

They are not on a strictly "military mission", are they?

Somebody is earning lots of money, while winning a lucrative bet with the pilots' inability to stand together and say "No.". They can now be pushed into anything, if they are "pushovers".

The official line of our company is that "Iraq is not a war zone".

Looking at the statistics in front of me, from Jan 1st 2007 until Oct 19th 2007, there were 124 attacks (mortar and rocket) on BIAP (Baghdad Airport), 115 at Basrah, 113 at Balad, 103 at Mosul, 89 at Talil, 88 at Tikrit, 66 at Tal Afar, etc.

Thirteen civilian aircraft damaged since Jan 1st 2007 on ground at Iraqi airfields.

Seventeen MANPADS attacks on civilian aircraft since Jan 1st 2007, four hits, none destroyed.

Beleiev me, buddy, it IS a warzone.

... and people still want to fly there? :ooh:

you guys are crazy to accept these conditions. you should all unite (if that is possible with the Venezuelan) and confront managment.if it doesn't workout go higher up , let say Germany for exemple and tell them the kind of ops you are under and trust me some people will loose there job Mick.:ugh:

You missed again
 

As always pilots fill chairs to satisfy there own personal requirements and need I spell out all those reasons, however in this case each of them are making their own conscious decision to fly to a very dangerous area and with all the inherent risks, that area launches.

The pay maybe great ...danger pay hmmmm... try if they are lucky percentage bonus on goods safely delivered otherwise certain individuals who classify themselves as experts will make a company statement aimed, more accurately than any mortar, at the Captain before he departs with his crew....A threat analysis has been made for aerdrome xxxx and military sources have confirmed the area is now secure for our continuing operations. The situation will be closelymonitored.

DHL is a freight company and they have product to move and as long as there are drivers prepared to take on the poor aim of hot metal whilst they remain encased in their cold tube lets just hope your friend, relative, loved one is not on the receiving end of tragic news when the :mad: get their aim right.

Good luck drivers and lets be thankful we are not hearing the news that we have heard before, afterall DHL is a major sponsor of life saving... surf life saving that is.

I heard, that yesterday again, there was a very grave incident. A mortar landed in Mosul at the exact location where the B727 parks, but luckily it landed on the spot 45 minutes before the arrival of the aircraft.

Of course, as usual, nobody from Air Traffic Control bothered to inform the crew until they landed and parked the airplane. It is obvious, that the daily security briefs from DHL security IN Iraq are an absolute joke ,as always, and provide no safety at all.

DHL management has pretented so far ,despite a pattern of strong evidences,that the airplane is not being targetted, and that these incidents are just random.

To me, the managers have shown serious negligence ( criminal negligence in my opinion ) and incompetence. These incidents are extremely serious and life threatening. The people responsible for ordering these flights are knowligly taking chances with the lives of the crewmembers while trying to hide the dangers to them.

I am also extremely disappointed by The Saudi CAA, which doesn't act to prohibit such unsafe operations.

apparently a lot of 5 resigne today and a few more are on their way out .
really wonder what your managment is doing ????

It's ok to bitch and to complain! But the bottom line is that DHL nor any of its contracting carriers are part of any state sponsored compulsorary service entidies, military or otherwise, which would make anybody fly if they didn't want to. Nobody is ripping the shirt off your back to drag you into a cockpit, it's not an air force.

There is alternative employment: There are beau coup jet jobs out there, especially in the orient; . . . air conditioned, low stress environment with smiling, young, eager beaver cabin dolls. No need to be stuck in a war zone. :rolleyes:

Do DHL insist on having fuel tank protection in their aircraft?

If not, then you are in a flying bomb.

At least request it, should make the job of the lawyers that much easier afterwards.

DHL Bahrain
 

With everything that's going on with the DHL pilots and operations in Bahrain.. I wonder how long Kalitta decides maybe someone else should do the flying, since the USPS contract belongs to Kalitta anyway. I'm sure both them and DHL Bussels would love to know how f:mad:d up and unsafe things are there. Rumor has it the director of maintenance himself was heard telling the mechanics to sign off on a cracked cargo door on one of the 727's in order to keep it flying.. If that's true that son of a :mad: needs to be fired and have his :mad: kicked.

To Hover is Divine
 

Hang in there all the DHL boys, there is lot's of light at the end of the tunnel. Soon we will get rid of the bonus greedy Directors and Rambo Managers and channel the correct money to the special boys doing the actual job. It is going to be worth waiting for.
:=:ugh::D:D:D:ok:

DHL pilots resigning
 

Things are starting to get so bad at DHL Bahrain, that pilots are starting to resign on a regular basis even if they don't have another job lined up. Like they say, you can always get another flying job, but you can't get another life or body part:eek:

First, I'm curious on how the heck they get insurance cover on the aircraft...I don't think even Lloyd's would write cover! Also, (and much more importantly) what about aircrew insurance cover?!
As for going into a war zone, I think we all know that this ain't new. During Vietnam, my father was chief engineer on tankers hauling a few bajillion gallons of avgas up the saigon river. He told me that all the way up to the port, he would hear bullets pinging off the hull, they were hit by RPG's and had a few morter rounds splash river water all over them. He DID get hazard pay, but he also had a really, really good union behind him.
For the comment about a morter hit on an aircraft stand (when the A/C was not there, thank God)...I would think that they would move the parking stands around? Otherwise, all someone needs to do is survey the sites for the morter teams and BOOM!
Stay safe guys!

This is difficult to believe. One terrible hit a few years ago with a Stinger SAM, + or - some Katyushas or RPGs are not enough?

Why cannot DHL pilots stand together and say NO flights to/from Iraq? If Iraq is safe, then why refuse ANY aircraft-anywhere-due to an inop APU, generator (in bad weather), anti-skid or auto-press. system?
Why add ANY extra contingency fuel for weather or a closed runway?
Safety is no longer the clear priority.

How many pilots there have children?
They will visit one or two of you and leave flowers on your grave: Blumen auf dem Grab hinterlassen. Will your life insurance pay your family well if you are killed in a war zone?
Who will your widowed wife marry and sleep with after they lower your tight coffin deep into the ground?:hmm: Schlaf gut da unten bei den Wurmen im Sarg.
European girls are often quite attraktive.

In the late 80s or early 90's, a civilian Transamerica Airlines (L-382) C-130 was approaching a mining strip in western Africa (Zaire?). The "pro-western" guerrillas (Unitas?) got excited and shot up the plane. It started a fire which created lots of smoke after landing. The First Officer died in the plane, but the others rode hundreds of miles simply to find an airport somewhere to go home. Transamerica had never installed the proper radio on board which thereby prevented the crew from chatting with the mining strip about the situation.

See my point? Those were "pro-western" guerrillas-the good guys.
Good luck in Baghdad.

Goeden Avond Neil Arm.

ref. to reply # 34
 

Is it a fact or rumour that the greedy managers will be fired soon?
Which managers are you referring to, the Middle East ones or the European?
There is certainly the same breed at work in BAH, BRU or EMA.:\
My suggestion: Inform the big boss of DPWN or the supervisary board of DP in Bonn and tell them what`s going on in the famous world of DHL.
Cheers

To Hover is Divine
 

Not a fact yet, but will soon be, definitely the under qualified clowns in Bahrain. What is happening there is f:mad: criminal and they must think they are dealing with slaves. One thing they have to realise that a first officer in a spiral descent with 19 targets on the TCAS AND THE RANGE SET AS 10 MILES, makes more quality decisions in that descent than they would ever make in their entire career.
Watch the press!:=:=:=:D:D:):):)

Why did these people volenteer to work out there then???, they knew the areas into which they would be flying.
MONEY. Bottom line.
They now see what has been an everday occurrance for the past four years as an excuse to push for even more money. Its all well and good trying to pass the blame on everyone else. Hello, take a good look in the mirror. Thats right, theres the reason, you and your greed took you out to those places.

As a previous poster mentioned no one is dragging you into the flight decks to fly, you chose to fly.

No point in whinging about it, when you only have yourselves to blame..

Things can be done if the danger can be assessed. Apparently several measurements were in place after the A300 attack, and the danger was "minimal" . As later the whole safety measures proof minimal, uneffective or none existing, and the security and ATC proves a laugh, people want to leave. Normal. By now this must be clear to all pilots operating there. A few years back it still had to be discovered, by experience.

Money? We get GBP2500 a month & no benefits.