The "Crew Security" Thread (merged)
 

Like its not already a joke going through security all crew in EasyJet have just recieved an email detailing the new securtity rules;
The Department for transport (DFT) has directed all UK airports to introduce testing of liquids contained within the clear plastic bag carried within hand baggage. This will come into effect from Tuesday 1st May 2007.
Please be advised this testing will also apply to aircrew and airport staff. The testing will take place as the individual passes through the security search point to go airside.
It is anticipated that this introduction will cause inconvenience to customers, airport staff and crew travelling through UK airports and will potentially impact the speed of security processing.
Customers travelling from the UK Airports from 1st May onwards are being contacted by the airline to provide them with advance notice of this new requirement.
Now this really is taking the busicuit, it is a complete joke security removing youghurt pots from crew but having to test it?????
Something has to give, can we not all stand up and say enough is enough?
What are the airlines, unions doing about this? We should all refuse to go to work for one day!
I for one am sick of having to remove one shoe, both shoes, jacket one day not the next, be hounded for not having aftershave in a plastic bag, having too much liquid making up my pack lunch and then having it fingered by them.
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
:{ :ugh: :mad: :eek: :\

Is there anyway that the professionals can help the rest of us as well?
They are bringing the whole rule of law into disrepute when our experience of authority on a daily basis is of MORONIC over reaction.

This is having a corrosive effect on everyone's respect for people we should be depending on for our safety. When you see a white old granny being taken to one side to have her shoes X-rayed AFTER security ( Stansted Saturday morning ), and the fear in her eyes as she's led away.......

Someone has to stand up to the morons.
PLEASE. Take a day off. Everyone if you have to. There must be some unified action you chaps can take to save us all!!!
PLEASE.

The whole 'liquid' farce has to stop. Hasn't it already been shown by experts that to put together a bomb onboard, using 'liquids', you'd need 30 professors, a lab the size of a department store - and three days to do it.

The terrorists who were jailed today must be laughing their flip-flops off. With stuff like that coming from the DFT - they've WON! :ugh:

There is now such a huge bureaucracy of overpaid grey-suited ones involved in security that there are several complete Departments of Thinking Up What To Do Next. They obviously have to justify their own existence otherwise they lose their jobs.

As they still only know how to shuffle papers they then have to employ reams of "Consultants", who are of course only too happy to go along with it as otherwise they are out of the gravy train as well.

Do not think this is in any way connected with security, other than a means to milk the security budget before somebody else comes up with a way to do it.

The alternative to taking a day off in protest at these stupid edicts would be to make sure we come to work with several pots of yogurt etc - this would soon jam up the system (pun intended) and cause so much delay perhaps those in positions of authority would sit up and take some action.

Yes, I'm an old cynic, but maybe this the the governments way of p*ssing everyone off as much as possible to cut the amount of people wanting to fly and so improve their 'GREEN' statistics......:mad: :ugh:

You really couldn't make this nonsense up, turn up for work, have water, milk, yoghurt or any liquid confiscated, thus having airside acces only to water to drink for entire shift.
Ok, supposing there is a real threat from liquids, i could be persuaded that tight security was thus necessary. However , cars can be taken airside with their tanks full of petrol, water in washer bottles etc

Why is a member of security staff deemed capable of judging what is secure/safe and what should be confiscated? Assuming they have undergone some checks before they are let loose why can't the rest of the industry have the same 'deemed safe' status?

I could go on listing a long page of ridiculous contradictions brought about by these rules. However, the main effect seems to be to increase the levels of frustration and hence stress in the people who have to put up with them- so well done to the DFT for that, that really helps safety in the aviation industry.

girtbar:

Have you got a verifiable, authoritative source for this information, other than an internal EasyJet email ?

The only reference I can find is to SAMPLE testing of liquids - see http://www.gov.gg/ccm/public-service...814DBABD81C9B9 for more.

Jet fuel
 

I asume that the men it suits have not yet notice that jet fuel is a liquid.

The explosive stuff was suposed to be unstable so a trampline at the check point could speed things up.

I went through JFK as crew a couple of weeks ago and it was a breeze, didn't even have to take my shoes off!!

UK security for flight crew is just a complete joke, it's a shame it's not funny.

There was a notice about liquids at the staff search at LHR this morning, it talked about coming into effect on the 1st of May. I didn't read it as it was early, I didn't have liquids (and often don't as I can't be bothered with the hassle) and I was in a hurry.

More draconian measures which effect people who have had more security checks than most yet we are assumed to possibly be a risk to security :ugh:

Well it took me by surprise, but the email issued through HQ states it begins 1st of May, a direct instruction from the DfT themselves. So guess its pretty official unless its only affecting certain airports?

The short notice of it all does make me wonder if the date is wrong and it should be June not May? Has nobody else received this email?

I do quite like the idea of taking lots of small pots of liquid and watching them test them all, i think that might well be the best option. I can just see the early morning rush with everybody carring containers galore, oh the look on the security guys and girls faces would be a kodak moment im sure!

:E

Its a shame for airside staff as well, it gets quite costly when we have to buy drinks all day. By all means test our drinks but why should we have to constantly pay all the time.

Could this be a devious plot by green tree hugger Milliband. A lot of people will give up flying if air travel becomes too unpleasant.

Did anyone suggest how they are going to test liquids? Maybe I could bring in a 99cc bottle of fermented Urine if they are going to do a sniff or taste test!:E :ok:

1. Bring in 100ml of finest single malt in your silly plastic bag.
2. When invited by the bottom-fondling failed wheelclamper to taste it, swig the lot.
3. Remove yourself from flying duty having been forced to drink alcohol before flying by the idiotic 'sickuriteh rools'.
4. Then go home for the day. But in a taxi.
5. Sue the ar$e off the ******* idiots for loss of flight pay, harassment and anything else you can think of.

i like the idea of urine,but maybe go one further and knock it over while the lids of,:)

How abour a 200ml bottle of urine and a leaky cap? Unscrew it a bit more when you hand it over.


Alternatively, I wonder if anyone will decide to make a b*mb to target the security desk. Just think, leave a bottle of shampoo at the security desk that blows up an hour later, taking the security area, staff and passing crew with it. Presumably if it is not safe to go airside then it is not safe to be in the terminal.
Please, please, please tell me that they don't confiscate things that are too dangerous to go airside and then just leave them in security????? I see they display a clear box of confiscated items at LGW.

No chance
 

TGWU have intervened at stn BAA security will not be testing liquids for health and safety reasons, seems that they feel if it's not safe to take on an aircraft it's not safe for security staff to open or spray.(besides some smartalec air crew might spike with urine or some other noxious substance.)

The lunatics aren't only in charge of the asylum - they've escaped! For heavens sake, when is somebody going to call an end to this insanity?:ugh:

Testing! Testing!
 

Got some beauties for testing up-coming. I wonder what form of tests these "experts" will employ...chromatography, spectrophotometry, or maybe litmus paper, sniffing, and taste-testing! I can hardly wait! Will they be testing our shoes somewhat more rigorously too, I wonder? Chemicals abound in explosive footwear and socks.

Incidentally, while having my lethal shoes x-rayed before flight yesterday, skipper too, I wondered if the hapless security people understand what havoc could be wreaked by misuse of the pilot's feet, shoes on or not? Can quickly snap off an A300 fin, or simply cause cessation of stabilised flight with a judicious shove of a foot whilst airborne.

DFT are a waste of taxpayer's money, as are their consultants and most of the sad security staff working in this new industry.:ugh:

Is it possible that we are playing into the hands of the terrorists? Could the liquids found in the woods and the plan to smuggle them onto an aircraft be a hoax which was deliberately leaked in Pakistan? A few months later some plastic explosive (which is much more deadly) is taken onto an aircraft while the securuty staff are paranoid about liquids.

Airclues

If you're having to remove shoes, then get them to untie the laces, "sorry but I have a small back pain, unable to untie my laces" all with a smile of course. When done get them to tie the laces backup again.

:D

The DfT / TRANSEC have such a grip on our personal freedom whilst making themselves look good you think they're going to relinquish that?

We've now had this for 9 months. You have people having to go and work in safety critical positions, on night shifts, without being able to get a drink while they're working (At least during the day you can buy drinks airside - albeit at exhorbitant airside prices).

Is this acceptable in the 21st century? NO!

It's time ALL the unions and professional associations got together and sorted this once and for all. Rather than working individually and achieving nothing maybe we should be putting the various representatives together to make a concerted effort. Maybe the threat of action, with the relevant chaos it would cause for one day to the economony, might jolt them into common sense.

As someone who's held higher security clearances than the vast majority of the contracted Security personnel, and still does, being treated like a criminal everytime I go to work is now wearing a little thin :*

Errrr, the problem is real and I believe the explosive they are looking for is nitroglycerine, as used in the Bojinka plot. I watched a documentary on TV on this last year and saw the (ghastly) devastating effect on the Japanese passenger who was unfortunate to occupy the seat above the bomb, which was assembled in the cabin out of plastic bottle of liquid explosive, detonator and an electronic watch. The only reason the plane didnt go down was because the bomber didn't use enough explosive.

I don't believe there is a simple solution to this threat nor are the authorities overreacting.

I remember, [several years ago] when ATC had FULL access to the "security" cameras. We used to "Dolly Watch" non PC I know, but it was FUN.....
However, the Overall impression of so called "security".... was less than "Laughable" but slightly above "Pathetic"
Sorry to say, it has NOT changed
bb

So - I can't take a drink in, making me less likely to be a terrorist, but as soon as I plug in at work I could put two aircraft together over a densely populated City and kill thousands.

And you reckon they're not overreacting? BO**OCKS!

Application of security has to be coupled with common sense - which this isn't.

YesTAM

With respect, the following solutions strike me as simple:

1) Allow only small amounts of liquid- eg 100ml at a time.
2) Don't allow any detonators in hand-luggage.

There are probably more that I haven't thought of.

CC

It sounds like you guys in the UK have it rather bad.
In NZ the Aviation Security staff have to now be screened like any other crew or passenger. It was a small win for us.

Is the airline industry well unionised in the UK. Couldn't you use these security procedures as a barginning device with your airlines for meals to be provided? or atleast drinks.

The Aviation security here also enjoy having there power trip over crew and passengers alike. They seem to be the same the world over, thinking that they are personnally saving the world. :ugh:

Best of luck! Sounds like you need something to change.

Still don't see the point of security checking us flight crew... we don't need any weapon as we can be the weapon :eek:
Just shove the stick forward or point it someplace could do much more damage than smuggling whatever kind of detonating device, so, what is the point?

Crew harassement, what a malign pleasure that must be :rolleyes:

Why can't all the pprune members on these forums, email their respective union reps, and ask their non-prune mates to do the same with an ultimatum that unless the Authorities get a grip on the situation then all members want a strike on say 'August bank holiday' for three days. That would get the right people talking. Unless the collective decide to do something, the people involved in security (particularly the very high paid bo***x consultants) will continue to create an empire.

I don't like much about what goes on in Isreal, but what i DO like is that they don't have this s***e, according to a mate of mine there last week, they PROFILE passengers, and don't give a s**t if people think it is racist. They say it is not, it is focusing on known profiles of types of person that have been historically involved in terrorist acts/hijackings etc. And you know what it works!

This is so so crazy. They have won already.:mad: :mad: :ugh: :ugh:

Disaster !
 

I've just realised that when I go to work my bladder contains liquid. Back off home for a p*ss

yestam
 

time to identify yourself. do you know something everyone else on this forum doesn't.................:sad:

Whenever this or equivalent topics come up flight crew seem to disengage brain and drop into "we don't need any weapon as we can be the weapon" mode.

Good for you - most people know that - really.

Is it possible to state that the bod passing through security in uniform with airline id isn't someone who has 'converted' or simply someone whose uniform/creds have been 'borrowed' when resting?

(The imposter/convert doesn't have to be part of the target flight crew s/he simply has to meet an accomplice passenger after getting the 'easy' route through security.)

Bring on cavity search for flight crew?

Before we all dive in, I agree that current security is simply designed to pander to the Government cretins and to "be seen to be doing something".

That said, in addition to somebody using stolen of false credentials to get airside, the use of proxy bombs or weapons being carried by individuals under duress (eg by threats to family members) is a well established and preferred terrorist technique for violating secure cordons. However unlikely, it is a threat and 100% screening is the only effective counter measure.

This 100ml containers in a sealable transparent 1 litre plastic bag nonsense is now an "ICAO Recommedation" and is being picked up at airports world wide. OZ, Singapore and other places out east have just adopted it.
The good times have gone and the lunatics are running the asylum.

Thought of that
 

Blue up
I thought of that during an extremely long delay in Manchester shortly after the latest foiled attempt. I happened to mention to the chap in the extremely long queue behind me that if the terrorists had any sense they would put the bomb at the security desk as they wouldn't have to go through security and on that day the impact would certainly have been more devastating numerically wise than your average flight. He seemed somewhat alarmed but that may have had something to do with my N I accent.

Tight security
 

I regularly travel through Belfast city and recently the security chap wiped my laptop with the the little paper disk that they then feed into the scanner to detect any explosive content. I made him aware that I regularly indulge in pistol shooting and that the dark stain on my forefinger was actually gunpowder residue from the day before (yes I had tried to wash it) and he said that the scanner would pick it up, nary a bleep from it. That really builds confidence.

Well, I see that up there in the UK they have just admitted that the Tube/Bus bombers were briefly under surveillance with these other fellows that have just been convicted. And that these Tube/Bus bombers were not considered a threat......! And now there have been admissions from the security agencies - the "experts" - that they will never be able to keep everyone under surveillance because THEY DON'T HAVE SUFFICIENT RESOURCES..... :ugh:

Well...... if they had spent a little LESS time worrying about pilots removing their shoes, pulling crews' laptops out, jackets off, hats off, etc... generally harassing crews who are trying to just do their jobs, and spent a little MORE time focusing on REAL potential threats, then perhaps those guys could have been stopped. If they spend a little LESS time running around confiscating airline Captains' toothpaste and lunches and a little MORE time thoroughly examining higher risk subjects then maybe the next attack will be prevented.

Devote the resources and efforts to where the biggest threats are. Don't sweat the low risk stuff. Redeploy the man-hours you are wasting examining the Captain's can of Coke to where they will be actually worthwhile!

It is no surprise at all to hear people up there saying it's a matter of time before the next strike gets through. And it's all fundamentally because you (the UK) are not focusing your resources and efforts appropriately! You are focusing on the easy targets - the general traveling public and the operating crews. It is time to focus on the real worries (specific race/religious/cultural profiles) and aggressively deal with them!

But any chance of that happening in Britain?

Somehow, I very much doubt it........ :ugh:

For goodness sake give them a break. Can you imagine how many pilots they have to check for toothpaste?

It's hardly surprising that the odd Islamic Terrorist slips under the radar. We have to concentrate on the major security threats to the UK.