Easy Jet - Emergency landing into John Lennon, Liverpool
 

BBC reporting an Easy jet aircraft made an emergency landing into Liverpool today due low fuel.
Any more details re this event anybody?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...de/6274877.stm

Might have something to do with the winds perhaps. Fuel tends to run a little low whilst holding and an "emergency" is normally required to be declared once reserves fall below a certain level if priority to land is required before other aircraft. Chances are that many diversions will have gone out of limits, closed due to debris on the runway or because they are full of diverted aircraft. This event probably no big drama at all Although with gusts to 60, the approach might have been a little sporting.

Manchester is currently closed due to debris on the runway and is not expected to open until 17.00. Hence people are diverting to wherever is open, in limits and can accept them. A "full" airport will always open up again to an aircraft declaring an emergency. Liverpool only taking one more diversion at 15.00.

The easy ops manual requires you to declare an emergency once fuel is likely to be less than company minimum reserve,this does not ,ean that they did land with no fuel. No news story just a proffesional flight crew doing a proffesional job in difficult weather conditions.

My sister works at The Royal in Liverpool, her significant other is a surgeon. She called this morning to ask about an emergency at JL because apparently surgery had been canned for the morning in readiness for a disaster! It's good to know we're in safe hands if things do go wrong one day.

Seems a man died when in collision with a fire applience en route to john lennon airport to deal with easyjet emergency landing, shame if was just a divert !!

The Easy wasn't the only one. Lots of go-arounds from EGCC this afternoon, including one who was a tad low on fuel and running out of options when he heard Brum was closed and Liverpool full. He declared a 'fuel emergency' (I thought there was no such thing?) and Liverpool accepted him.

I am confused....why would a flight from EGAA to EGSS have and have to divert to Liverpool?Seems to me they would have held an awfully long time for that to occur.....confused BFS ATCO :confused:

If you plan on STN being a possible diversion then you'd also not fancy just having LTN fuel on as there would be a lot of traffic heading there. So you might carry East Midlands fuel. You might well opt to carry fuel for a second 'good' alternate such as LPL so as to give yourself a choice come diversion time. That choice might have proved to be a welcome one if EMA was extremely busy at the time or had worse weather than STN. So you end up in LPL. Yes you pass some fine airports along the way but they don't have company handling and therefore will be difficult to get both the aircraft and the passengers out of.

Its a complicated scenario but thankfully these days we just push buttons and the computer tell us where to go and takes us there....
:rolleyes:

Cheers

WWW

Eastern Wiseguy - notwithstanding company sops etc....

The wind today at EGSS was gusting in excess of 60kts at times, about 50-70 degrees off runway heading. One A/C tried twice to get in but had to go around, and eventuall called a PAN. EGGW was getting near to the limits with regards to capacity on the tarmac and was not able to take many more divs (halfway through the morning they declared they could take 3 more, then would be unavailable) - hence why the A/C in question may have gone to EGGP.

Shaggy Sheep Driver - there is no such thing as a 'fuel emergency' - a PAN is what is mandated to get priority... however, some ATCOs might let it slide, or maybe the phrase is just semantics (are you getting confused with the old call "fuel priority?) - a PAN call due to low fuel could be termed a "fuel emergency" in the same way a PAN call due to a sick passenger is a "medical emergency" :)

wrong phrase?
 

Maybe we should sit down with ATC and find a better word than Fuel Emergency. A Priority landing maybe. That word Emergency causes lots of people to do pre arranged things - like roaring to the airport in a fire engine. (In point of fact fire is the least likely problem if you run out of gas...)
It would mean a rule change but would at last create a clear procedure(s) if an aircraft calls for a Priority or a Fuel Priority landing. ATC would take the aircraft straight in and there the matter would end. No ambulances, bells or fire engines.
The green table stuff can be dealt with once the ship is down.
FC.

Oops - sorry, trod on your toes there - 4 minutes apart!

Few Cloudy. I presume you're not a professional pilot? Adequate procedures exist for pilots to inform ATC of dire problems using the terms "Pan" or "Mayday". Unless those procedures have been changed since I got my slippers out UK ATC will not respond to calls indicating fuel shortage, least of all "Fuel emergency", unless one of those terms is used. Unfortunately, some crews are/were reluctant to use them!

FC, you are are absolutely right in your comments. Emergency is far too emotive a word in these circumstances. I hear also that operations were cancelled in Liverpool hospitals in expectation of casualties! A fatality in these circumstances is especially tragic. I think some stirring is called for here to ensure that there is never a repetition. Another symptom of overkill is the routine attendance of about six ambulances for a minor Cessna 150 mishap, thereby depriving those in real need.

On a lighter note, teletext said that the Easy had "run out of fuel". Now that would be a REAL emergency but probably not at the airport ...

Thanks for the replies guys......('specially WWW..it really is time we sorted out some Fam Flights!)


HOWEVER And this would naturally leave no scope for abuse. I have had a pilot question my order because he "had come from xxxx and naturally was a little tight on fuel". So how would we deal with queue jumpers?

Not surprised at all this!!

Its the same down South West. Ezy's are having a hard time at BRS, with CWL also closed, BHX having probs and also MAN where the hell do they go!!

There is one thing that makes my stomach turn over all this! We all knew how bad the weather was going to be today, yet all airlines are striving to keep their airplanes in the air - KNOWING FULL WELL that its a little edgy up there today. If any 1 of those aircraft were involved in an accident, and a single person died....TV would be cancelled for the afternoon and we would spend many hours focused on the stricken machine!

YET someone has died...purely because of commercial pressure for pilots to 'get in'!
Any journalists reading this and wanting a story, there it is!

What the hell are we doing flying today! :=

Well, as far as my understanding goes, the only words ATC will need to hear, or indeed accept regarding fuel emergencies and to start reacting is "Mayday!"

There is no point in declaring a "Pan" as requesting a priority approach due low fuel means nothing to ATC. A Mayday is the only thing that will "get you ahead of the queue".

If you have not met you company SOP's for declaring a Mayday due to low fuel, by telling ATC that you will be declaring a mayday in ... minutes will atleast give them an idea on your status and will let them help if they can. If you declare a Mayday BEFORE you need to, be prepared to answer to the Minisitry.

Actually you are wrong about FC, HD, and I think you have also missed the point.

The suggestion is to have a call (as in the US I believe) which indicates lowish fuel reserves, achieves priority and does NOT get ATC and all the rescue services unnecessarily 'hot and sweaty' as when they respond to a PAN. I think it is an excellent idea. As has been pointed out many times here, the PAN call for lowish reserves is not really required, nor is the MAYDAY, when up to 30 minutes fuel could be remaining on landing (on UK SOPs).

All,
ATC will react in an appropriate manner when you declare a PAN and state that it is due to a fuel shortage etc. If the Easyjet diverted to LPL and had declared a fuel shortage then there would have been no need for ATC to declare a full emergency. However, if the pilot gave more information on the problem other than just a diversion because he had reached fuel minimums then ATC would make the approriate response.
At this time we do not have the full facts, try not to be tempted to speculate over whether this was an overreaction.:)

First of all Few Cloudy is a highly experienced aviator; now more of the pipe and slippers brigade than the Top Gun boys up there today.

Back to the idea of alerting other links in the chain to a imminent problem, achieving the correct level of response, and not diverting much needed agencies from, perhaps, more pressing matters.

I've heard from many correspondants on Prune that a PAN outside UK achieved the square root of f'all. OK the wind was bad in UK; it was the same in Belgium, Germany, Holland etc. So, is this response true? Is it an internationally recognised cry for help? I've never had to use it, so I'm asking.

Someone mentioned the USA. There is the fine video re-enactment of the B707 from S.America who ran out of fuel into JFK. Started off with too little in the first place, considering the Wx. but......... He missed the first time and went around. Only very late in the scenario did he get ATC's attention with a low fuel call. ATC's response afterwards is he should have shouted loud and clear what his endurance was much earlier. They would have sorted it out.
OK, USA is different to here. But if it is true about my PAN question above, it is different all over Europe. Not a good thing in an international business. Whatever the case, I'm sure when the hairs start creeping on the back of your neck it is time to make yourself well understood.

Perhaps some of our overseas continental colleagues can enlighten us. Meanwhile, what was anyone up there doing without heaps of motion lotion? Surely the whole of UK and near continent gave you no where to run to. It happened once before, with a crash in TS territory, that they ran low on fuel and options because they started with close to minimum going into a large TS region. Being expected & applauded to make safe diversion decisions is one thing; making life easier for yourself before you enter the lion's den is another. I'm not casting aspersions, just curious what people's policy was today. I trust company pressure was cast aside. I was up & down in the gales of last week, and lots of 'go juice' made for a less stressful time. And I am glad to by the fire today and not proving man is sometimes mighter than nature.

Who was it who said "the art of being a skillfull aviator was to avoid getting into the situations to need your skills."

Now, what about a good call for "where's the nearest pump and do they give stamps?"

ATIS info on slippery TDZ 24R
 

Not to change the topic, I've done a search and found nothing on this yet.

A quick question:
I flew to Manchester yesterday, the ATIS was saying something like: "Part of the TDZ 24R is liable to be slippery when wet" (don't qoute me though), and refering to a NOTAM Which gave a little bit more detail.
For those of you flying into MAN today, was that reference in the ATIS today???
That info combined with the gusts would be quite worrying.:confused:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...de/6275327.stm

RIP

zkdli

I take it by your reply that you are an active serving air traffic controller then are you?

Shaggy Sheep Driver -says " there is no such thing as a 'fuel emergency' "

oh yes there is shaggy where we come from....down to your last 30 mins is a Pan which is final reserve fuel. Down to your last 15 mins of fuel is MAYDAY MAYDAY.

15mins fuel left in a jet is soiled undies ....even 30mins of juice left is exciting.

I always remember that poor unfortunate Avianca 707 going into NY and they ran out of juice after 2 GA's.

Definitely not fun up there today. You could see the edge of the front clearly and the 150kt upper wind at FL240 along the back edge of it made getting back to the Island from LGW very boring....Good job we did, because not long after the wind got up to 68kts gusting, and they closed the airport as a LET410 tried to go flying and got it's wingtip stuck in the grass. No Fire cover as they were using the trucks to shield it from going right over. Sweet.

Fortunately we went tech so weren't going anywhere anyway....

Bearcat -

It really is all down to semantics. I will amplify my earlier reply to Shaggy for you - declaring a PAN is an emergency action. It can be for fuel, sick pax, malfunction and a whole host of reasons. The reason you call the PAN is an amplification (required so us ATCOs can help you appropriately). Therefore calling a PAN due to low fuel state is a fuel emergency.... I do not think that Shaggy will have ANY argument with this.

I believe, and I am sure Shaggy will correct me if I am interpereting his/her posts wrong that what they mean by "there is no such thing as a fuel emergency" is harking back to the old days when some airlines tried (succesfully for a while) to avoid holding, by asking for a "priority landing due to low fuel".

This achieved, for a while, the required effect, without the need for the pilots to fill in paperwork. Nice little wheeze for them - they get in ahead of the queue and have no questions asked.

To stop this, (in the UK at least), it was declared that fuel priority meant nothing to ATC any longer, and a PAN would be needed at the least for a priority landing. (We have guidelines saying what we can give away depending on wether it is a PAN or MAYDAY i.e. opposite direction landings to duty or non duty runways for MAYDAYs etc etc).

Calling a PAN becomes reportable, i.e. it is an incident, therefore paperwork ensues. This not only stops people from 'pulling a fast one' but when the report is published, it aids learning for other crews/ATC etc etc. It is one piece of the very open, blameless and unique reporting system the UK has, which aids people in the business to learn from other peoples mistakes/experiences.

Therefore, in a way, Shaggy is correct. It really is, all semantics.

Teamilk&sugar -

Weyou are sooo wrong about ATC responses I am afraid - a PAN or MAYDAY will get pilots priority, just different levels. A PAN will get at the very least, a priority, no delay (under normal circumstances) approach. Before you ask me the same question you asked zkdli 3 posts above, the answer is YES.

Good for the crew! have never been in the position, but can understand how it could happen!!!!!! maybe a little more time out there is what you need. I have been really worried about exactly that, where do we run to, before it becames a mess. Push, push, and push some more :mad: ed!!!!!

"Therefore, in a way, Shaggy is correct. It really is, all semantics"....says Anything.

Your comments are noted.....why not send your comments and your licence into the CAA.

I`m kinda baffled why no one has questioned if the current EZY fuel policy may be a contributing factor. Minimum fuel whenever possible. A short flight like the one in question, BFS - STN with LTN as alternate, should pose no operational restrictions on carrying some extra fuel due to the WX.
Is there any corporate pressure on you EZY drivers where low viz is the only "accepted" reason to carry extra?

Of course I'm correct!

'Fuel Emergency' is not a recognised declaration to ATC. However, most ATCOs are not pedants, and in the case I heard this afternoon, where the aircraft's captain had a poor command of english and no apparent plan following the go-around except to 'go somewhere where aeroplanes are landing', the ATCO dealt with it with supreme pofessionalism.

SSD

The a/c in question made an approach to EGSS and excecuted a go around due to the severe turbulence. There was a severe squall to the west of EGSS meaning the a/c had to turn left on the go around. Most of the a/c behind him went around as well. The pilot requsted the weather for Luton and East Midlands which were worse so he elected to go to EGGP. With the severe headwinds en route to EGGP his ground speed bearly exceeded 230kts.

BLE,
In orangeland our ops manual is no different to any other UK operators fuel policy. We are given the adult responsibility of adding fuel as we deem fit. I have never heard of anyone at Easyjet being spoken to about carrying excess fuel.

Buffalow,
AFAIK, [day off today] the "slippery when wet" ATIS is being broadcast until the runway has been "decontaminated" [due to pilots landing their flying machines...and leaving deposits of rubber on the alighting surface]
IOW, MAN are cleaning the crud off the runway, so it is a "possibility" that 24L will be in operation [at night] over the weekend.
Hope this helps
watp,iktch

gooday from downunder. in reply to what happens on the continent and beyond it does come down to an understanding between the crew and atc which is easier to manage if english is the common language. A mayday is used when an aircraft is in grave and imminent danger and a pan for anything less than a mayday but still requiring assistance. Both forms of emergency( priority) require ( if possible) for the a/c to state the nature of distress(mayday) or urgency(pan) which is the time to state fuel emergency and an indication of how urgent your need to approach is.There are no published guidelines as to how much fuel remaining constitutes an emergency or urgency, that is a question of how much pucker your arse is suffering. There will always be much less embarrassment in filling out an incident report than facing a post crash media flock.

Point is, yes there are. Probable landing with less than final reserve (usually 30 mins) in a JAP OPS operation, is a MAYDAY, pure and simple, mandated in black and white in the Ops manual.

Allright everyone,
Just read what Wizofoz just typed.
He is absolutely right. Less than 30 minutes requires a mayday call, and therefore is an emergency situation. I am probably looking at the same JAR-OPS text as he is.

....and a PAN is declared at what point...?

...according to the Ops manual?




...because according to some posts that have been made here (some by current ATCO's) my Ops manual doesn't read the same as theirs!

Just want clarification...that's all!

PAN - If you think you may land below final reserve
Mayday - If you WILL land below final reserve

In my UK airline experience, consistently:

"When the a/c MAY land with less than reserves" ie I have less fuel than I would really like, and require special routing/handling to expedite my arrival at xxx (a potential 'fuel emergency' :) ), the aim being to AVOID landing with less than reserves, which would require a MAYDAY.

Should NOT be required on a well-planned routine diversion.

That's my go. (Just like the faster EGPF:) )

I wonder if ops get cancelled every time there is a divert for fuel? Does someone call them and advise on the probability of them being needed or is it just when a PAN of worse is called?

Manchester 24R Slippery When Wet
 

Manchester did indeed have a NOTAM reporting a patch of 24R approx 300m from Threshold as liable to be slippery when wet. It was put in force late on Thursday 11th Jan and cancelled on Wednesday 17th following overnight maintenance work. The affected distance was approx 150m and apparently caused no restrictions for landing or take-off performance.

Cwatters,
Some places activate the "Major Emergency Plan" when a serious incident that may involve injury to or death of more than a certain number of people (I remember 12 from a seminar a few years back ). Once the M.E.P. is actioned, by a senior official (Perhaps Local Authority Mgt, Senior Police Officer ), then a "set piece" response swings into action. Emergency services position to the scene or likely scene, police cordon off areas, Ambulances Fire Appliances dispatched, auxiallary fire and ambulances called to duty and to answer your question, Hospitals brought to a status where they can readily recieve and cater for multiple casualties, this may involve cancelling some routine services, preparing facilities, mobilising staff and standby staff for "incomig".

I am a Pilot, not a medic, but had the chance to attend a briefing on such about 10 years back, in Ireland. Some may think such a strategy "over the top". But in reality, it is used to deal with serious incidents every day, such as serious traffic accidents, industrial accidents, terrorist threats and I remember Aircraft Emergencies being on the list too, because of the sheer number of possible casualties involved.

Of course in modern day political society, if the MEP is actioned and no crash/injuries occur, then many will cry "overkill". But if an aircraft full of pax did crash, and the MEP had not been actioned, then the same people would be screaming blue murder, looking for the guts of the person who did not action it.