Easy Jet - Emergency landing into John Lennon, Liverpool
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Easy Jet - Emergency landing into John Lennon, Liverpool
BBC reporting an Easy jet aircraft made an emergency landing into Liverpool today due low fuel.
Any more details re this event anybody?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...de/6274877.stm
Any more details re this event anybody?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...de/6274877.stm
Last edited by d192049d; 18th Jan 2007 at 14:06. Reason: Insert link
Might have something to do with the winds perhaps. Fuel tends to run a little low whilst holding and an "emergency" is normally required to be declared once reserves fall below a certain level if priority to land is required before other aircraft. Chances are that many diversions will have gone out of limits, closed due to debris on the runway or because they are full of diverted aircraft. This event probably no big drama at all Although with gusts to 60, the approach might have been a little sporting.
Manchester is currently closed due to debris on the runway and is not expected to open until 17.00. Hence people are diverting to wherever is open, in limits and can accept them. A "full" airport will always open up again to an aircraft declaring an emergency. Liverpool only taking one more diversion at 15.00.
Manchester is currently closed due to debris on the runway and is not expected to open until 17.00. Hence people are diverting to wherever is open, in limits and can accept them. A "full" airport will always open up again to an aircraft declaring an emergency. Liverpool only taking one more diversion at 15.00.
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The easy ops manual requires you to declare an emergency once fuel is likely to be less than company minimum reserve,this does not ,ean that they did land with no fuel. No news story just a proffesional flight crew doing a proffesional job in difficult weather conditions.
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My sister works at The Royal in Liverpool, her significant other is a surgeon. She called this morning to ask about an emergency at JL because apparently surgery had been canned for the morning in readiness for a disaster! It's good to know we're in safe hands if things do go wrong one day.
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The Easy wasn't the only one. Lots of go-arounds from EGCC this afternoon, including one who was a tad low on fuel and running out of options when he heard Brum was closed and Liverpool full. He declared a 'fuel emergency' (I thought there was no such thing?) and Liverpool accepted him.
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Might have something to do with the winds perhaps. Fuel tends to run a little low whilst holding and an "emergency" is normally required to be declared once reserves fall below a certain level if priority to land is required before other aircraft. Chances are that many diversions will have gone out of limits, closed due to debris on the runway or because they are full of diverted aircraft. This event probably no big drama at all Although with gusts to 60, the approach might have been a little sporting.
Manchester is currently closed due to debris on the runway and is not expected to open until 17.00. Hence people are diverting to wherever is open, in limits and can accept them. A "full" airport will always open up again to an aircraft declaring an emergency. Liverpool only taking one more diversion at 15.00.
Manchester is currently closed due to debris on the runway and is not expected to open until 17.00. Hence people are diverting to wherever is open, in limits and can accept them. A "full" airport will always open up again to an aircraft declaring an emergency. Liverpool only taking one more diversion at 15.00.
I am confused....why would a flight from EGAA to EGSS have
run a little low whilst holding
If you plan on STN being a possible diversion then you'd also not fancy just having LTN fuel on as there would be a lot of traffic heading there. So you might carry East Midlands fuel. You might well opt to carry fuel for a second 'good' alternate such as LPL so as to give yourself a choice come diversion time. That choice might have proved to be a welcome one if EMA was extremely busy at the time or had worse weather than STN. So you end up in LPL. Yes you pass some fine airports along the way but they don't have company handling and therefore will be difficult to get both the aircraft and the passengers out of.
Its a complicated scenario but thankfully these days we just push buttons and the computer tell us where to go and takes us there....
Cheers
WWW
Its a complicated scenario but thankfully these days we just push buttons and the computer tell us where to go and takes us there....
Cheers
WWW
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Eastern Wiseguy - notwithstanding company sops etc....
The wind today at EGSS was gusting in excess of 60kts at times, about 50-70 degrees off runway heading. One A/C tried twice to get in but had to go around, and eventuall called a PAN. EGGW was getting near to the limits with regards to capacity on the tarmac and was not able to take many more divs (halfway through the morning they declared they could take 3 more, then would be unavailable) - hence why the A/C in question may have gone to EGGP.
Shaggy Sheep Driver - there is no such thing as a 'fuel emergency' - a PAN is what is mandated to get priority... however, some ATCOs might let it slide, or maybe the phrase is just semantics (are you getting confused with the old call "fuel priority?) - a PAN call due to low fuel could be termed a "fuel emergency" in the same way a PAN call due to a sick passenger is a "medical emergency"
The wind today at EGSS was gusting in excess of 60kts at times, about 50-70 degrees off runway heading. One A/C tried twice to get in but had to go around, and eventuall called a PAN. EGGW was getting near to the limits with regards to capacity on the tarmac and was not able to take many more divs (halfway through the morning they declared they could take 3 more, then would be unavailable) - hence why the A/C in question may have gone to EGGP.
Shaggy Sheep Driver - there is no such thing as a 'fuel emergency' - a PAN is what is mandated to get priority... however, some ATCOs might let it slide, or maybe the phrase is just semantics (are you getting confused with the old call "fuel priority?) - a PAN call due to low fuel could be termed a "fuel emergency" in the same way a PAN call due to a sick passenger is a "medical emergency"
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wrong phrase?
Maybe we should sit down with ATC and find a better word than Fuel Emergency. A Priority landing maybe. That word Emergency causes lots of people to do pre arranged things - like roaring to the airport in a fire engine. (In point of fact fire is the least likely problem if you run out of gas...)
It would mean a rule change but would at last create a clear procedure(s) if an aircraft calls for a Priority or a Fuel Priority landing. ATC would take the aircraft straight in and there the matter would end. No ambulances, bells or fire engines.
The green table stuff can be dealt with once the ship is down.
FC.
Oops - sorry, trod on your toes there - 4 minutes apart!
It would mean a rule change but would at last create a clear procedure(s) if an aircraft calls for a Priority or a Fuel Priority landing. ATC would take the aircraft straight in and there the matter would end. No ambulances, bells or fire engines.
The green table stuff can be dealt with once the ship is down.
FC.
Oops - sorry, trod on your toes there - 4 minutes apart!
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Few Cloudy. I presume you're not a professional pilot? Adequate procedures exist for pilots to inform ATC of dire problems using the terms "Pan" or "Mayday". Unless those procedures have been changed since I got my slippers out UK ATC will not respond to calls indicating fuel shortage, least of all "Fuel emergency", unless one of those terms is used. Unfortunately, some crews are/were reluctant to use them!
FC, you are are absolutely right in your comments. Emergency is far too emotive a word in these circumstances. I hear also that operations were cancelled in Liverpool hospitals in expectation of casualties! A fatality in these circumstances is especially tragic. I think some stirring is called for here to ensure that there is never a repetition. Another symptom of overkill is the routine attendance of about six ambulances for a minor Cessna 150 mishap, thereby depriving those in real need.
On a lighter note, teletext said that the Easy had "run out of fuel". Now that would be a REAL emergency but probably not at the airport ...
On a lighter note, teletext said that the Easy had "run out of fuel". Now that would be a REAL emergency but probably not at the airport ...
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Thanks for the replies guys......('specially WWW..it really is time we sorted out some Fam Flights!)
HOWEVER
And this would naturally leave no scope for abuse. I have had a pilot question my order because he "had come from xxxx and naturally was a little tight on fuel". So how would we deal with queue jumpers?
HOWEVER
It would mean a rule change but would at last create a clear procedure(s) if an aircraft calls for a Priority or a Fuel Priority landing. ATC would take the aircraft straight in and there the matter would end. No ambulances, bells or fire engines.
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Not surprised at all this!!
Its the same down South West. Ezy's are having a hard time at BRS, with CWL also closed, BHX having probs and also MAN where the hell do they go!!
There is one thing that makes my stomach turn over all this! We all knew how bad the weather was going to be today, yet all airlines are striving to keep their airplanes in the air - KNOWING FULL WELL that its a little edgy up there today. If any 1 of those aircraft were involved in an accident, and a single person died....TV would be cancelled for the afternoon and we would spend many hours focused on the stricken machine!
YET someone has died...purely because of commercial pressure for pilots to 'get in'!
Any journalists reading this and wanting a story, there it is!
What the hell are we doing flying today!
Its the same down South West. Ezy's are having a hard time at BRS, with CWL also closed, BHX having probs and also MAN where the hell do they go!!
There is one thing that makes my stomach turn over all this! We all knew how bad the weather was going to be today, yet all airlines are striving to keep their airplanes in the air - KNOWING FULL WELL that its a little edgy up there today. If any 1 of those aircraft were involved in an accident, and a single person died....TV would be cancelled for the afternoon and we would spend many hours focused on the stricken machine!
YET someone has died...purely because of commercial pressure for pilots to 'get in'!
Any journalists reading this and wanting a story, there it is!
What the hell are we doing flying today!
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Well, as far as my understanding goes, the only words ATC will need to hear, or indeed accept regarding fuel emergencies and to start reacting is "Mayday!"
There is no point in declaring a "Pan" as requesting a priority approach due low fuel means nothing to ATC. A Mayday is the only thing that will "get you ahead of the queue".
If you have not met you company SOP's for declaring a Mayday due to low fuel, by telling ATC that you will be declaring a mayday in ... minutes will atleast give them an idea on your status and will let them help if they can. If you declare a Mayday BEFORE you need to, be prepared to answer to the Minisitry.
There is no point in declaring a "Pan" as requesting a priority approach due low fuel means nothing to ATC. A Mayday is the only thing that will "get you ahead of the queue".
If you have not met you company SOP's for declaring a Mayday due to low fuel, by telling ATC that you will be declaring a mayday in ... minutes will atleast give them an idea on your status and will let them help if they can. If you declare a Mayday BEFORE you need to, be prepared to answer to the Minisitry.
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The suggestion is to have a call (as in the US I believe) which indicates lowish fuel reserves, achieves priority and does NOT get ATC and all the rescue services unnecessarily 'hot and sweaty' as when they respond to a PAN. I think it is an excellent idea. As has been pointed out many times here, the PAN call for lowish reserves is not really required, nor is the MAYDAY, when up to 30 minutes fuel could be remaining on landing (on UK SOPs).
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All,
ATC will react in an appropriate manner when you declare a PAN and state that it is due to a fuel shortage etc. If the Easyjet diverted to LPL and had declared a fuel shortage then there would have been no need for ATC to declare a full emergency. However, if the pilot gave more information on the problem other than just a diversion because he had reached fuel minimums then ATC would make the approriate response.
At this time we do not have the full facts, try not to be tempted to speculate over whether this was an overreaction.
ATC will react in an appropriate manner when you declare a PAN and state that it is due to a fuel shortage etc. If the Easyjet diverted to LPL and had declared a fuel shortage then there would have been no need for ATC to declare a full emergency. However, if the pilot gave more information on the problem other than just a diversion because he had reached fuel minimums then ATC would make the approriate response.
At this time we do not have the full facts, try not to be tempted to speculate over whether this was an overreaction.
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First of all Few Cloudy is a highly experienced aviator; now more of the pipe and slippers brigade than the Top Gun boys up there today.
Back to the idea of alerting other links in the chain to a imminent problem, achieving the correct level of response, and not diverting much needed agencies from, perhaps, more pressing matters.
I've heard from many correspondants on Prune that a PAN outside UK achieved the square root of f'all. OK the wind was bad in UK; it was the same in Belgium, Germany, Holland etc. So, is this response true? Is it an internationally recognised cry for help? I've never had to use it, so I'm asking.
Someone mentioned the USA. There is the fine video re-enactment of the B707 from S.America who ran out of fuel into JFK. Started off with too little in the first place, considering the Wx. but......... He missed the first time and went around. Only very late in the scenario did he get ATC's attention with a low fuel call. ATC's response afterwards is he should have shouted loud and clear what his endurance was much earlier. They would have sorted it out.
OK, USA is different to here. But if it is true about my PAN question above, it is different all over Europe. Not a good thing in an international business. Whatever the case, I'm sure when the hairs start creeping on the back of your neck it is time to make yourself well understood.
Perhaps some of our overseas continental colleagues can enlighten us. Meanwhile, what was anyone up there doing without heaps of motion lotion? Surely the whole of UK and near continent gave you no where to run to. It happened once before, with a crash in TS territory, that they ran low on fuel and options because they started with close to minimum going into a large TS region. Being expected & applauded to make safe diversion decisions is one thing; making life easier for yourself before you enter the lion's den is another. I'm not casting aspersions, just curious what people's policy was today. I trust company pressure was cast aside. I was up & down in the gales of last week, and lots of 'go juice' made for a less stressful time. And I am glad to by the fire today and not proving man is sometimes mighter than nature.
Who was it who said "the art of being a skillfull aviator was to avoid getting into the situations to need your skills."
Now, what about a good call for "where's the nearest pump and do they give stamps?"
Back to the idea of alerting other links in the chain to a imminent problem, achieving the correct level of response, and not diverting much needed agencies from, perhaps, more pressing matters.
I've heard from many correspondants on Prune that a PAN outside UK achieved the square root of f'all. OK the wind was bad in UK; it was the same in Belgium, Germany, Holland etc. So, is this response true? Is it an internationally recognised cry for help? I've never had to use it, so I'm asking.
Someone mentioned the USA. There is the fine video re-enactment of the B707 from S.America who ran out of fuel into JFK. Started off with too little in the first place, considering the Wx. but......... He missed the first time and went around. Only very late in the scenario did he get ATC's attention with a low fuel call. ATC's response afterwards is he should have shouted loud and clear what his endurance was much earlier. They would have sorted it out.
OK, USA is different to here. But if it is true about my PAN question above, it is different all over Europe. Not a good thing in an international business. Whatever the case, I'm sure when the hairs start creeping on the back of your neck it is time to make yourself well understood.
Perhaps some of our overseas continental colleagues can enlighten us. Meanwhile, what was anyone up there doing without heaps of motion lotion? Surely the whole of UK and near continent gave you no where to run to. It happened once before, with a crash in TS territory, that they ran low on fuel and options because they started with close to minimum going into a large TS region. Being expected & applauded to make safe diversion decisions is one thing; making life easier for yourself before you enter the lion's den is another. I'm not casting aspersions, just curious what people's policy was today. I trust company pressure was cast aside. I was up & down in the gales of last week, and lots of 'go juice' made for a less stressful time. And I am glad to by the fire today and not proving man is sometimes mighter than nature.
Who was it who said "the art of being a skillfull aviator was to avoid getting into the situations to need your skills."
Now, what about a good call for "where's the nearest pump and do they give stamps?"
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ATIS info on slippery TDZ 24R
Not to change the topic, I've done a search and found nothing on this yet.
A quick question:
I flew to Manchester yesterday, the ATIS was saying something like: "Part of the TDZ 24R is liable to be slippery when wet" (don't qoute me though), and refering to a NOTAM Which gave a little bit more detail.
For those of you flying into MAN today, was that reference in the ATIS today???
That info combined with the gusts would be quite worrying.
A quick question:
I flew to Manchester yesterday, the ATIS was saying something like: "Part of the TDZ 24R is liable to be slippery when wet" (don't qoute me though), and refering to a NOTAM Which gave a little bit more detail.
For those of you flying into MAN today, was that reference in the ATIS today???
That info combined with the gusts would be quite worrying.
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