Well, watch this space over the next few months.......you see, what goes around always comes around and shoots you in the ..........:eek:

Frying & Atse.

What I should have also said, and I realised after the event, that in BA's case these 'spikes' as atse aptly calls them did refer in general to the cabin crew, I believe, and not the flight deck crew. That is relevant in so much as it would appear that maybe FR have noticed that same tendancy and would explain why the cabin crew received such a letter and not the flightdeck.

I'm sure I'll get flamed by the other contingent now but this place is a bit of a 'damned if you do and damned if you don't'!

I think most organisations, and I'm sure Ryanair fall in this category, accept that if you are genuinely sick such that you cannot perform your duties to the standard required, then you should go sick. On the other side of the scale, I've seen people pitch up for work that never should and you have to send them home. Mostly, however, and sadly, there are many that think a 'sicky' here and there is their right. Shame those lot aren't self-employed, because sick = no pay; tends to focus the grey matter a bit.

Jack, Just for your information, many Ryanair flight deck crew have received the memo.

People really know whats going on?
 

Sorry chaps, but there seems to have been a bit of an oversight here...

Cabin crew are required to PAY, yes PAY RYR about GBP27.00 for every day they are sick up to a maximum of 3 days...

so yes, people dont just go sick because it hurts their pay...

furthermore, this trend has also begun with the pilots, with sick pay DEDUCTIONS appearing on many pilots salary slips...

alongside this, the cabin or flight crew member does not receive his or here sector (flight) pay for that day...

Sorry to say this, but this is fact.

So with this in mind, im afriad to say that for those who think a sicky here should be self-employed, this policy puts things more into perspective...

Understand that RYR have things set up to their advantage, no matter what happens...

and to finish this post off, there is rumour that the new cabin crew from the recently added EU states are not paid a constant basic pay rate, that their income is only based on sector pay (flight pay)

again, this last addition is rumour...those in RYR will be able to read between those lines...

Not only that Chickens, but a number of them (the new cabin crew) are not directly employed by Ryanair but by third party companies that they have to pay in advance for their training. If, as appears to be the case, they only receive sector pay - and obviously only when they work - then one gets the "ohh soo very Ryanair" drift....

There is also a memo out there with the requirements to be followed if you go sick. That + the memo already posted tells pretty well the whole story. Anybody got a copy of the other document they can post here?

Jack the Lad: do you have information to challenge or refute what Chickens has said? If so, please provide it. It looks to me that he knows a bit more about Ryanair than you do with your comment. What makes you so "sure", since a number of posters have already made it clear that they believe Ryanair certainly does not fall into that category?

atse,

Not sure the reference to the CAA is entirely fair as FR is Irish registered & therefore the responsibility in this area falls in Dublin.

Maybe some will think this is a pedantic point, but here's the rub. The bulk of FR's profits come from the UK, but under JAA rules, our CAA doesn't get a look in.

Backtrack, your points are taken. However, the CAA got a mention as they are not entirely isolated (Buzz).

atse and Buzz is about to be closed by our friend MOL :rolleyes: So, no CAA support after 01NOV04

two seperate but related articles
 

irelands' sunday tribune 12 september 200a

buisness section

"we haven't received any letter,but if we do i think it would get a pretty short reply.i think it would consist of two words:foxtrot oscar" ryanair boss micheal o'leary responds to reports that brussels is looking for return of the charleroi subsidies.

front page

"ryanair admits profits more important than punctuality"

ryanair has admitted publicly for the first time that profits are more important than getting its planes to their destinations on schedule.it has also been revealed that staff at the low fares airline are set a monthly target of money to acquire from passengers in excess baggage charges.
The information emerged in the course of an investigation into the dismissal of a ryanair employee for failing to collect a £50 excess baggage charge from a customer.while being cross-examined at the employment appeals tribunal,a deputy duty manager at the airline stated that "the collection of excess baggage charges was more important than the punctual departure of flights".
in her defence,the dismissed customer service assistant argued that she ushered the customer onto the early morning flight to beauvais without charging for excess baggage because to go through the manual process of charging would have delayed departure.
she told the tribunal that she "never saw the memorandum from the duty station manager about excess baggage being more important than getting passengers on the plane".she explained how other ryanair attendants "would bargain with passengers" over excess baggage charges and said the company "set a target of £1,000 per month" for each attendant to collect.
she said that she herself managed to collect £7,000 over eight days at christmas and didn't feel that there was any issue over her handling of the excess baggage charges.
The attendant was also disciplined by ryanair when she allowed
two asian passengers board a flight to charleroi in belguin even though they had invalid visas.as a result,the two passengers were refused entry and ryanair was forced to fly them back to dublin.the airline was also fined £6,000.
While the attendant had "contributed substantially to her dismissal" and the company had made "laudable attempts to deal with the matter",the employment appeals tribunal awarded her 700 euros.


any publicity is good publicity!

so for all you treasured customers and staff,if you don't like it,well you can "foxtrot oscar" with the brussels lot.then he wonders why he will never get the second terminal at dublin.

Still number 1 for punctuality though

Ryanair has just received a letter from the Walloon Regional Government asking for the return of illegal airport subsidies. Here, according to an Irish newspaper, is what Ryanair had to say:

“As soon as Ryanair receives this letter in English, we will respond immediately and will publish full details of this response.”

Attaboy MOL. Take no nonsense from those pesky foreigners, especially those wanting their money back!

Just going back to the point about CAA oversight of Ryanair's operations, the CAA has the right to request of the IAA powers to oversee Ryanair's operations under Article 83(bis) of the Chicago Convention.

This provides for an airworthiness authority to delegate oversight of an operation registered in its country to the airworthiness authority of another country. In short, it provides for situations such as that where the majority of Ryanair's operations fall in the UK instead of its state of registry, Ireland.

I wonder if the UK CAA has ever endeavoured to request such power to be delegated to it by the IAA under this article?

Flightrider

I can't comment on the rules under the Chicago Convention & bow to your superior knowledge.

BUT, does both the UK & Eire's membership of the JAA change things?

I put this very question of oversight to a CAA FOI earlier this year. His response was "No and it's a sore point."

Backtrack, your CAA FOI may well have said "it's a sore point" etc. but the reality is that both the IAA and CAA have the obligation to act if they think there is something to act upon. Also, as I understand it, both say they will act if they get reports, but also claim that they don't get such reports.

For all the talk of individuals within both of these organisations, BOTH have proved remarkably careful in tackling the said operator. Indeed, do they not both agree that the said operator "meets all their requirements"? For that indeed is exactly what the operator claims.

JAA (in)action
 

...based on "rumour"...

Would the European parliament let civilians of it's newest member states work well below the minimum wage of the European state in which they are working?

you will not eat or drink
 

todays directive to now prevent pax from bringing their own drinks or food onto ryanair flights,because it is affecting our onboard sales,just beggars belief.
do we have them arrested for smuggling on a sandwich or cup of coffee?i think we are scraping the barrel a bit now and behind the scenes the war chest may be draining.

The Ts &Cs currently prohibit passengers from consuming thier own alcohol on board and from carrying hot drinks on board (for safety reasons).

There is nothing stating that passengers may not bring their own food on board, nor prohibiting them from consuming it on board. Where would such a rule stop - a single tic-tac?

Clarification of your post please, clohessy the claw?

directive to cabin crew 16.9.04
 

cabin crew instructed in memo book that brought on drinks and food affecting onboard sales and immediately to be stopped.no safety mentioned.

the cockpits crew carry on hot drinks and food is this affecting safety or are they trying to starve them out.

what clarification do you need?

We are way off the point of this topic but what happened was there was a company going around the boarding area selling food and drinks to paxs as they were waiting to board so when EW got wind of this he sent out the memo. Cabin crew were told not to stop anybody from today on as the company is not going around the boarding area anymore.

We always take our own food on Ryanair because we get what we want and it's cheaper. The cabin crew have never mentioned a thing about it. There seems to be some sort of conspiracy to repeat this lie about food being prohibited until it becomes a 'fact'.

The only time we've seen any reaction was when some Corsican rugby supporters started passing litre bottles of pastis around. That was solved quickly and amicably by the confiscation of the bottles until we arrived a Stansted.

Convenient considering Buzz closes on 31st October and they currently cover that route :confused:

Is this runway improvement work being done to allow -800's in there ?

It sure is, they will be flying in there until the work is done . It is a very good route for the Ryans so they will be back.

The ccm from the "nouveau" EEC states are being treated as slave labour, paid approx 1000 eu per month which makes it almost impossible to live and send any money home to the family
unless they either/or live in very crowded accomodation and augment their income

Well informed sources say that some have been fired for lap/table dancing and also in one instance a company pilot complained to ryanair that one lady demanded 100 euros for ........?

I told Chickens that I would keep out of this, in the hope that you guys would discuss sensibly; I've heard so much nonsense now, that all bets are off.

You moan that you get no coffee, no water, blah blah, blah. Why don't you guys just leave? There are plenty that will take your place. Regardless what you say, you earn more than most in this industry and if the other guys here really understood what you take home in your pay packet then you would have no sympathy whatsoever. Pay for your medicals, sim, blah, blah. You are on the top scale of pilot earnings in the EU.

You wanna give that up? Many waiting eagerly to take your place. Maybe you should have some sympathy for your 'brothers' in MYT. Not heard a peep of support from any of you for your poor old MYT guys. Don't be surprised when they step in your shoes. But then again, you can blame your woes on BALPA, if you like. And, you really want to fight to get them to represent you?

Why not just give me 0.25% of your salary and in return I'll promise not to screw you....LOL

I presume you are relying on creative Ryanair documentation and figures to make this preposterous statement. Regular readers will know your form and likely future contribution here.

Your excuse for returning is the failure to "discuss sensibly". Can one presume that you are to be the judge of that?

Jack The Lad,

Yes, granted, the money is good but a) I've yet to see anyone in the company earning 100K a year and b) in other airlines, people with similar pay to ours only fly 500 hours a year AND have things like crew meals, uniform, medical reimbursements, car park passes, company ID's, etc., etc. included in the package which amounts to way more than the 3% granted to us.

As for people wanting to get out, many have headed for sunnier climates and there will be more to come as the industry picks up. The pool for good, quality pilots is drying up so if you think it's a case of simply replacing good, loyal people with sub standard contractors, you need to wake up and smell the coffee.

People just want to be treated with the respect they deserve, in a company where it is frustrating to see that the current culture developing results in good workmanship and loyalty mean nothing.

GGV

I know exactly what you guys earn. Shall I publish it here? If I do, then you can reckon on loosing a lot of support here in the EU. Your call, my friend.

Yes, its my call to judge when I return to this nonsense. I've sat idly by watching you 'poor old darlings' winge and moan. Gloves are off if you like, me old mukka

Flying Irishman

I don\'t have an issue with you, per se. I\'m remarking about your outrageous peers that pontificate here. Yes, we\'ll all smell the coffee and others will have no qualms about paying for their coffee if they choose to order one.

I\'m deadly serious; scupper your own careers if you want to; there are 77 MYT pilots about to enter the market and they never earned anywhere near what the FR pilots do and they will eagerly suck up your jobs and gladly pay for their coffee or take their own bottles of water on board.

I\'ve sat here for months and listened to Chickensfly and Sergeblanco (before he was banned and rose out of the ashes; cloth ears or something) and I watch them wind all of the others up! Silly boys, the lot. Only when yu\'ve lost what you had will you begin to realise what it was worth!

Oh, and by the way...I\'ve got an Air2Bob crew meal for sale. Will anyone give me 50p?...40p?...30p....Nothing?, ok I\'ll put it in the bin and buy meself a sandwich from Sainsbury\'s like most folk do for lunch...Just hope that no-one reckognises me as a pilot. What would become my reputation?

Well Jack, you just post what you want to post. You seem quite keen to do so ... maybe a mite too keen to be entirely all that you seem. However, before you produce the Ryanair propaganda have a quick look at this:

URL=http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=145618

Remember, if you believe that you have the "real figures" you are by definition wrong. Why? Because there are so many different contracts there are no such things as THE "real figures". So, whatever your figures, specify the number/category of pilots, or type of contract, that your figures apply to.

GGV

If you want me to read a link, then at least point me to one that works.

Yes, I can post accurate figures of what FR pilots do earn, never mind what contract. Would you like me to?

GGV. Well, I\'ve waited 5 minutes and no reply, even though I can see you watching this thread on line. I\'m off to bed now. Think on and if you like, I\'ll tell all what salaries you guys earn, even without water and little sympathy blankets.

Watch the FR HR department get deluged by lots very experienced jet pilots from MYT!

Jack the Lad

Go ahead and post the contract conditions and salaries, as there are so many and so varied I'd love to see them all

Jack
 

I think you work for Airtours? Why do you want to attack the Ryan Air pilots? What do you have against them? Please publish the Ryan salary scales, all of them and stick to the facts.

Nice one, Jack the Lad, lets have some guys who will lose jobs then be content with the sub-standard BS on offer at RYR. Do you want to encourage RYR to further lower T's and C's??

I find it it very hard to believe that experienced people coming from MYT would be "gladly" bend over and take MOL's offerings.

Maybe if we learnt to stop denigrating each other, things would improve. Yeah, I wish.

jack the lad alright
 

what the hell are you on about,your threads are all over the place.if you can post the ryanair terms and conditions on pprune.i will resign,give you my job at fr or to one of those poor myt boys you are so concerned about.you can earn the big bucks and be happy.i think i am safe enough though,because not even those within ryanair know what the contracts.you obviously don't have much interaction with fr pilots,try to get out more!

sleep well jack.

Jack The Lad,

Perhaps you might like to post the salary scales of newly promoted Captains at Buzz Stansted then ? (Soon to be flying RYR 800's for hundreds of pounds a month less than their peers !)

What was it MOL was saying about Ryanair staff being paid more than companies where they had union representation ? .........

Clohessy, you asked about BALPA above. Apparently we are to hear something from IALPA and BALPA "before the week is out". Cards are being played "close to the chest" but something is afoot in the near future, even if I have not got the timescale quite right.

Jack The Lad
 

Well at least you stimulated some debate.

But you are all missing the point.

This is not about the amount of money pilots - or any other group in FR for that matter - make in a year.

It's not quibbling by the "most cossetted group of employees" in the world.

This is about :

- the right to be represented collectively

- the right to a common contract for each group of staff

- the right to work in a company without consistently looking over one's shoulder.

Comparison between MYT and FR are immaterial. I have no idea what work BALPA undertook for those pilots. But I reckon that there were no communications from management to those pilots à la the FR ones we have previously read about on internet forums.

The guys in FR have a simple choice. If they want to do something about their situation, IALPA and BALPA are there to assist. Good luck to you all!

Well Said that man!!
 

Exceedingly well said Minuteman. That’s it in a nutshell.

MOL just interviewed on R4.

Precis as follows:

"Action by BALPA (British Airways Low Pay Association) members caused recent delays & cancellations.
No objection to union membership."

Both news to me :confused:

Here's the link to listen to that Radio 4 interview with MOL:-

MOL

Disappointed to note that a BALPA spokesman was not asked for comment to counter some of MOL's comments - perhaps they declined the offer?

A rather lacklustre reply from MOL I would say, not his usual self at all ....

See my previous post as to whether pilots enjoy better pay than with other companies !