My comment to that: :yuk:

One of this days we'll see vending machines fitted on the cabin. That certainly will cut some costs on CC salary. Oooops I'm probably givig some "good" ideas to someone.:uhoh: :eek:

GD&L

This is not aimed at any particular company, because it applies to so many.
Whenever there is a 'whinge' about T's & C's & life style there is always someone who responds with;

"If you don't like it leave. You knew what you were getting into when you signed."

This is not always true. I've never been told at interview that the company is anything other than the best for pilots. It has always been some months later, perhaps sooner, that the real truth unfolds. In the 21st century, in western Europe (EU) earning our levels of salary and accepting the levels of responsibility, it is not unreasonable to expect good, even high, standards of personnel treatment. It would apply in most other industries. It should not be necessary to conduct an audit on every employer's attitude before you join up. (Sadly, though, it does seem the case).

Applying the logic of "you should leave" to moving house, it would go something like this.

You move into a good neighbourhood of valuable houses, where everyone seems to be socialable, well behaved and with community spirit. Even your closest neighbour, on first meeting, was convivial. After some months the truth outs, and the next door family prove to be a nightmare for many reasons. A quick poll of the other residents discover that this has been going on ever since the louts moved in and everyone is sick of it.

Who should leave the neighbourhood?

Unions look to get off the ground at Ryanair

A long-running dogfight at the low-cost airline took a new turn this week with the launch of a website designed to bypass the management and communicate directly with staff. Colin Cottell reports

Saturday September 4, 2004
The Guardian

Ryanair pilots were left in little doubt about what the company thought of their trade union when, earlier this summer, a manager at Stansted airport told them: "We have no objection to any Ryanair pilot joining Balpa, the Taliban, the Monster Raving Loonies or indeed the Moonies. Each individual is perfectly free to join whatever organisation he/she so chooses."
The manager went on to advise the staff not to spend their money on union subscriptions by adding: "If you want to waste £1,000 we recommend fast women, slow horses or even greyhound racing. At least you'll have a few minutes of fun."

When asked about the email, Ryanair has consistently replied: "We do not comment on any internal communications or discussions between ourselves and our people."

The unions argue that an aggressive pursuit of profits pervades the company's management. This, they say, is reflected in the way staff are forced to pay for their uniforms and airport car parking, a refusal to pay trainees and a hostile anti-union corporate culture.

Until now, the company and its colourful chief executive Michael O'Leary appeared to hold most of the aces. Earlier this year, Mr O'Leary, who had once again successfully resisted the pilots' attempts to win trade union recognition, suggested that anyone who wasn't happy was "free to go elsewhere - godspeed to them."

But this week, the trade union movement struck back with the launch of a website designed to go over the head of Mr O'Leary and directly to his workforce, via their PCs.

In a virtual strike on the airline, the International Transport Workers Federation (ITF) launched www.ryan-be-fair.org which is described by the ITF as a "new kind of campaigning". The site has already received support from British unions such as the TGWU, the GMB, and Amicus, and from unions across Europe.

"Traditional campaigning methods, such as leafleting or union meetings, are not suitable. We intend to give our colleagues at Ryanair options other than visits to union offices at the airports, to get in touch with union representatives," said Ingo Marowsky, secretary of the ITF's civil aviation section.

"Instead, we want to invite employees to communicate with each other, and with the unions in their home countries, and to join them." The ITF stresses that one of the website's key features is its confidentiality.
In an attempt to build public pressure on the company to change its ways, the website is also designed to allow the public to find out more about the employees at Ryanair and the social practices of the company. It contains an appeal for fairness.

The website is sure to raise the hackles of the company. Pprune.org, a pilots' internet forum, recently removed a hugely popular thread titled "Ryanair, a call to action" because of the threat of legal action from the company. It has since re-opened, although to avoid legal problems, users posting messages are urged to follow strict guidelines.

The difficulties facing trade unions in Ryanair are formidable. "People are quite frightened even to mention the subject," says one Ryanair employee, who talked to Jobs & Money this week but wishes to remain anonymous.

"You could probably discuss it outside of work. But you would never discuss it on the plane, or anything like that. I was handed a union form. But I was told by the other workers that if I joined the union, I would be sacked."

He did join the union, but makes sure the company doesn't know. "I pay my subscriptions by direct debit, rather than have the company take it from my wages. The majority of staff would join a trade union. Without a doubt," he says.

Mr O' Leary and the trade unions share a history. As long ago as 1998, in a bitter dispute, he defeated a Dublin strike for union recognition by 39 baggage handlers from SIPTU, a large Irish union. Since then, he has rebuffed all unions' efforts to gain influence within the company.

"We have about half a dozen members in Ryanair. And they are extremely nervous," says Brendan Gold, the TGWU's national secretary for civil aviation.

Amicus and the GMB, with about 100 members each, tell a similar story.

Ryanair says it observes and respects the right of its employees to join a trade union. But at the same time, it says it also respects the rights of employees to continue to negotiate directly through their own elected representatives on issue of conditions and pay.

A spokesman says: "There is no evidence to suggest Ryanair pilots want the trade unions to represent them. The last time this matter was put to a secret ballot, conducted independently in October 2001 only 18% of Ryanair's Balpa members supported trade union recognition. The reason the majority do not want union recognition is because they achieve better pay and bigger pay increases by dealing directly with the company.

It says that its average salary of £50,582 is among the highest of any airline in Europe, and compares favourably with British Airways (£37,602) and EasyJet (£41,384).

However, this summer relationships between the company and its staff plummeted further when, according to trade union sources, a number of pilots organised a boycott of information meetings with Mr O'Leary in London. According to one source, those who didn't attend, and several who did, received a memo questioning their commitment to the company.

Meanwhile, Ryanair is on a collision course with some of its Irish pilots. Captain Evan Cullen, president of IALPA (the Irish pilots union) confirmed reports in the Irish Times that a number of Dublin-based pilots received individually tailored letters which contained "a clearly implied threat that pilots who engaged in union activity would not be trained on the company's new Boeing 737-800 fleet".

Mr Gold says trade unions face a long haul in persuading Ryanair employees of the benefits of an independent trade union, and achieving recognition. "One of the problems is that many of the workers in Ryanair have no knowledge of unions whatsoever. Mr O'Leary may be saying to them 'Don't worry about those unions, they are an irrelevance, and I will look after you'.

"It would be arrogant and wrong to assume that everybody in Ryanair wishes to join a union, and it is only Mr O'Leary that has prevented them," continues Mr Gold. "We recognise that cabin crew enjoy working for Ryanair."

None the less, says Mr Gold, there are "quite a number" of staff who feel they need an independent organisation to assist them, and this website provides a valuable way to engage with them.

"Ryanair is like an old eastern European country with an iron curtain around it. You can't get in from outside. We have got to open it up, and this website is an ideal mechanism to do it."

And who told you that :confused:

for the year 2002/2003 Ryanair cabin crew had a turnover rate approaching 85%
how can a group form effective opposition when those that object to the working practises of ryanair leave after 3 to 6 months .
about the only ones happy to be working for ryanair are the girls and guys from the high unemployment areas of spain and the newly joined countries of the EU,
cabin crew in ryanair get shafted more then any job i have ever seen in any company in any county,
some say that the money they earn ( if they have no other qualifications ) is excellant for the age that they are , however divide the salary by the amount of hours they work and the crap that they have to put up with (particularly in stansted where i personally have seen managers roaring in girls faces until they broke down and cried )
and i think you'll see its not really worth it ,

and that's on a good day :rolleyes:

JM read it - your girls and boys ain't happy so it ain't just the front end people who are cheesed off.... http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/Gif/WBtazani.gif

Ryanair, the workers of ryanair made a web-page
 

the workers of ryanair made a web-page

www.ryan-be-fair.org

please enter to visit the web,support us!

MOL running out of excuses
 

News just in...

The Swedish faction of the ITF has started a campaign passing out printed sick bags to passengers boarding at Skavsta airport. All of a sudden the isolated UK and Ireland based union decision seems to also be making more precedence in the bases elsewhere....

http://news.airwise.com/stories/2004/09/1094499607.html

With Easyjet posting 24% profit increases, Virgin Express showing signs of recovery with profits up 10%, and the 'troubled' KLM-Air France alliance announcing yields and profits also on the rise, one wonders what of this 'battlefield of startups' this coming winter.

I think MOL will be the victim of his own success...low fares aren't going to last forever, and when you threaten legal action against papers reporting your company's flight safety, whilst also saying safety is your prime concern, it suggests a coverup...

people will be turning away from the 'ridiculous' low fares in fear of safety and staff treatment concerns...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ledere i et flyselskap, som kan skrive på denne måten til sine ansatte, burde ikke kunne oppnå godkjennelse som Accountable Manager under JAR eller inneha noe form for ansvarlig posisjon i en organisasjon som opprettholder en AOC ( Air Operator Certificate ).
-------------
Managers in an airline, that are able to write in this manner to its employees, should not be able to gain approval as Accountable Manager under JAR or hold any responsible position in an organisation maintaining an AOC ( Air Operator Certificate ).
olh

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

( transcript )

Ryanair in a letter to its employees:

"We have no objection to any Ryanair pilot joining BALPA, the Taliban, the Monster Raving Loonies or indeed the Moonies. Each individual is perfectly free to join whatever organization he/she so chooses."

( oversatt )

Ryanair i et brev til sine ansatte:

Vi har ingen innvendinger mot at en flyger i Ryanair blir medlem i BALPA ( British Airline Pilot Association ), i webstedet for de gale ( The Monster Raving Loonies ), eller ( The Moonies ), en ekstremreligiøs, påstått hjernevasket, sekt i USA. Etthvert individ ( i Ryanair, red. ), er helt og holdent fri til å bli medlem i hvilket som helst organisasjon.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

now the screw is turning
 

Good for mick to be on the recieving end.

So we earn 157 euros per annum more than sas staff on average.
the subtle flaw in the plan is that we have to pay for all the extras and they don't.

157 euros after tax,thats a free kebab!

Any of our scandinavian contributors willing to post the contents in english of the contentious article regarding safety that has the boys in such a pickle.

Another edit.... this is your last warning on this thread sergeblanco. Bear in mind the advice in the first post above before posting. One more transgression of the rules and you will be banned from this thread permanently. Admin

Hi!
I'll translate it tomorrow and post it.

stepping out of line
 

I understand that perhaps there was something else in Srgeblanco's post...

but the truth is the difference in salaries between us and SAS is that SAS does have the perks we end up paying for ourselves...

what we end up taking home, using these figures, is therefore less with RYR.

I also find MOL's figure bloated compared to what the real truth about salaries is in RYR

apologies for the truth
 

olholh,thanks for the post.look forward to it.

keep up the good work boys.

admin,i will post it as i see it.bar me if you, will but freedom of speech is my right.

Not on here sunshine ... adhere to the guidance given in the first post, or we exercise our rights, which you signed up to.

Chickenscanfly and Sergeblanco

As a regular passenger with Ryanair out of Prestwick, is my safety at risk. As employees of Ryanair are you telling me that I should I be so concerned for my safety that I should look for another airline.

Are the record 25million passenger carried by Ryanair in August in danger, if so why are the various avaiation authorities not doing anything about it?.

This thread is to discuss ONLY the issues and arguments around unionisation within Ryanair. Speculation outside that remit is not relevant. Your question may be valid in another context, but not in this context given the rigid criteria for this thread to stay public. Please respect that, and we can keep this debate moving forward. Admin

Ok sergeblanco, if thats the way you want to play it, you are banned from this thread and this forum. "Freedom of speech" is not your right here, a "freedom to speak" has been granted and comes with a responsibility to follow the serious guidelines above. As you blatantly cannot do that,following two warnings, then we do not want your contribution thank you.

Any further off-topic posts will be deleted.

Sick Squid
Rumours and News Moderator

back on track
 

Well I guess banning an individual is getting a bit dire again, but I take it you guys are sitll not arou that legal stitch with the original thread.

In reply to your questions Runway 31, Ryanair is staffed with experienced and professional individuals. As it stands you have nothing to worry about.

As the moderators rightfully said the only point behind this discussion is to validate our moves towards voting for union recognition, and take on and share new information with regards to this issue ONLY as it comes...

the recent issue raised was that of our CEO's comparing our salaries against those of another airline. Whilst salary differences aren't our prime reason for taking up this kind of action, it does give an example to us of a scenario where management is bending the figures, or hiding other facts, to make it appear as if we still have a better deal than others. The startling there here is that until now we did think we brought home slightly more than other airlines, but realised that this amount is then dwindled off by the offset of items the company requires us to fund for ourselves, such as uniforms and food onboard, and now also recently taking our own water onboard, paying for our own medical certificates, loss of license insurance, and so forth.

Hearing about an example where we see the total we take home is only marginally higher than a competitor airline in Sweden, whilst those individuals don't have large portions of their pay then being offset once they receive to perform tasks required to function in their job for their employer, is an eye opener for most of us.

In retrospect with this example so far, it would be foolhearty for anyone to believe that although he put up with more bullying from management, we still get paid more than the others. This recent example is a stark reminder of this.

I Hope I haven't gone too far out of bounds with this post, and trust the moderators would have carefully read it and considered their legal standing before posting it through.

How will having union recognition assist the 5,000 individuals being made redundant at Alitalia, the 1,500 at Aer Lingus and all the possible layoffs at United and US Air to name but a few.

All these airlines are unionised and part of the problem is their demands. Is it possible that the unions cause more problems than they solve?.

The problem at RYR is that by constantly cutting corners they will at some point cut a corner too much. All staff should be able to speak up and not fear to be fired. That is one issue, a culture of fear is NOT constructive and in my view not safe in the long run. A guy (or gal) worried avout his or her job might not pay the attention to a 25 turn around that it deserve etc... :eek:

On top of that all the airline employees off the airlines in question have a tough time and yes employees should also pay their share. The problem at RYR is that MOL is the only one who makes a filthy amount of money but the people delivering the service are getting paid less and less after inflation.... :rolleyes:

Union strength and redundancy packages
 

The previous post questioned the worth of a union to the 1500 people being made redundant at Aer Lingus. Well the strength of the unions at Aer Lingus would be well known to management. Also, there would have been political pressure given that Aer Lingus is a semi state body and that a majority of the workforce would reside in the same dublin constituency.

In Ireland, the legislation covering redundancy payments was the redundancy payments act, 1967-91. This provided as a legal minimum for half a weeks pay per year of service between 16 and 41years of age, and a further full weeks pay per year of service from age 41 to the date of dismissal. Not a great deal by any stretch of the imagination.

I am almost certain that this legislation was updated in the last 2-3years and now provides for a legal minimum payment of two weeks pay per year of service.

The worth of the union to the workers at Aer Lingus then was their ability to negotiate a redundancy payment in excess of the statutory minimum.

The package on offer provides for nine weeks pay per year of service up to a maximum of 130 weeks pay, and subject to a minimum payment of €40,000 euro.

This is much better than the statutory minimum. By having union recognition, the workers are better off. In the absence of a union, management would be legally entitled to impose the statutory minimum payments. By combining, the workers at Aer Lingus have benefitted.

I can't of course speak for Alitalia or any other carrier, because I'm not familiar with their situations, nor do i believe that unions are perfect. They can be inflexible and they can have their own agenda, but barring any ideological arguments the facts in the Aer Lingus case support the view that unionisation has benefitted those workers.

I would be inclined to believe that union recognition would benefit staff at Ryanair.

On Unions
 

As vin has very rightfully put it...

And in my humble opinion...

If Ryanair suddenly had to rack in the redundancies, they would scrape off as much excess as was necessary for them to remain profitable, and would pick and choose who it would be most cost effective to remove from the staff.

Those 1500 lay offs at Aer Lingus could in RYR terms equate to around 5,000, with minimum conditions paid for if most employees are lucky.

The decision would be done within a whim of thought, agreements would be broken with the excuse of exceptional circumstances, and people who never considered their job at risk suddenly find themselves retrenched with only a week's notice...

It is true, factual, that many people employed by ryanair have to give the company a month's notice. Ryanair, in return, only has to offer a week's notice, and it is rumoured that this is often still too long for the company to wait for.

Union's can go over the line, introduce unnecessary costs, bring in too much beaurocracy. But in a company where fear and intimidation 'seems' to be the means of management, and where employees 'feel' they have no right to say or even suggest opposition to management's decisions, a Union can mean something very different all of a sudden...

A Union can mean what a Union was originally meant for.


Again, all in my humble opinion except where otherwise stated.

I agree with what is being said about how worthwhile it is for any workforce being unionised.

I sometimes wonder though about the thoughts of the union hiararchy and if they really have the interests of the workers in their minds.

Have a look at this article from todays New York Times. The union never even put the decision on rejecting the management ideas to stave off bankruptcy to the vote. How many will now loose their jobs.



The chairman of the pilots' union at US Airways said yesterday that a proposal to cut $295 million from pilots' wages and benefits might not have saved the airline from bankruptcy but should have been put to a vote anyway.

In a broadcast on the pilots' Web site, Bill Pollock said the union would now be "at the mercy of the courts" if US Airways follows through on its threat to seek Chapter 11 protection.

His comments came a day after rebel pilots on the union's master executive council blocked other union leaders from sending the company's last offer to its 3,000 pilots. No negotiations are scheduled.

US Airways has been trying to persuade its unions to grant $800 million in concessions so it can avoid a bankruptcy filing, which would be its second in two years.

But unions, which gave the airline two sets of cuts worth $1.9 billion before it emerged from bankruptcy in April 2003, have resisted. Without the cuts, the airline has said it will most likely seek court protection, a move some analysts speculate could happen as early as Sunday

PPRuNe in the News!
 

News Story here

RealMoney by TheStreet.com

Ryanair Reaching on Web Crackdown

Thursday September 9, 7:03 am ET
By Peter Eavis, Senior Columnist


Discontent among Ryanair's (NasdaqNM:RYAAY - News) pilots must be a source of great concern to the company's chief executive, Michael O'Leary. Why else would Europe's largest budget airline have threatened a U.K.-based Web site with legal action if it didn't take down comments pertaining to Ryanair's pilots?

O'Leary has been one of the most combative CEOs to ever run a public company. He has launched abuse-ridden tirades against critics, airports, competitors and regulators. In July, he called the company that runs Stansted airport outside London a "bunch of overcharging rapists." Back in January, O'Leary labeled as "Stalinist" a European Union ruling that one of Ryanair's airport deals was anticompetitive.

But despite his penchant for dishing out insults and criticism, he doesn't seem able to tolerate any brickbats thrown his way. When the Professional Pilots Rumour Network, a Web forum popular with Europe-based pilots, posted a discussion thread containing a mixture of informed insights and raucous comments on Ryanair's relations with its pilots, the company's lawyers sent the Web site a letter demanding that it take down the thread. Howrey Europe, a law firm acting on behalf of Ryanair, sent the letter to PPruNe, as the Web site calls itself, on Aug. 24.

The letter argued that the statements on the thread were "untrue, unfounded, malicious and deeply damaging to the good name and trading reputation of Ryanair." The letter added that Ryanair would move to gain an "immediate injunction" against PPruNe and claim damages if the Web site didn't remove the thread, which discussed pilot unionization and pilot pay -- hot button issues for Ryanair right now.

PPruNe removed the thread, but a new thread has appeared on the Web site concerning unionization at Ryanair. Ryanair didn't immediately comment when asked why it acted to remove the thread. PPruNe owner Danny Fyne said: "Tactics like this never work in the long term. If we didn't publish it, someone else would."

After an earnings warning in January, Ryanair stock has been languishing and its ADRs are nearly 50% below their 52-week high. Wednesday they fell 38 cents to $30.43.

O'Leary has massively underestimated the harshness of competition in the European budget airline sector. Fares have slumped at a time when Ryanair was bringing on a huge number of new planes. That problem wasn't helped by the fact that Ryanair flies to many cheap, out-of-the-way airports that there is insufficient demand for. And after one of Ryanair's cheap deals with a remote airport was judged by the EU to break its competition laws, investors now wonder how many other airport deals may also become invalid.

To revive its fortunes, Ryanair has been doing all it can to cut costs and boost revenue. One sensible-seeming cost-cutting move is the fitting of non-reclining seats. But one move that is generating criticism, both among customers and in the market, is a wheelchair levy on every ticket that Ryanair said it was charging to cover the cost of transporting disabled passengers to and from its planes. The levy appears to still be in place. It's not clear if it is around 70 euro cents or 50 euro cents, but if it is the lower number, the levy accounted for around 22% of the increase in operating profits at Ryanair in its June quarter, compared with the year-ago period.

The wheelchair levy is a clear sign of desperation, but so are moves to cut the most basic of pilots' perks. One measure has Ryanair pilots buying their own uniforms. Cost-cutting ceases to have beneficial effects if it causes a company's best employees to leave. And discontent does seem to be growing. Ryanair management is currently waging a bare-fisted propaganda war to keep pilots from opting for their union to represent them in pay negotiations. In a recent memo, a Ryanair manager at Stansted airport said that paying union dues would amount to a waste of money: "If you want to waste 1,000 pounds we recommend fast women, slow horses or even greyhound racing. At least you'll have a few minutes of fun," the memo said.

Ryanair can always find inexperienced pilots eager to clock up miles, and it can employ them on a nonsalaried basis. But all airlines need a solid base of experienced pilots to meet aviation regulations and provide training. Ryanair cannot risk an exodus of these. And alleged hardball tactics may cause this to happen. Experienced pilots who need to receive expensive top-up training to fly Ryanair's new series of Boeings have been told that the company won't pay for their training if they opt for union representation, according to a person familiar with employee relations at Ryanair.

To be sure, the PPruNe thread that was taken down contained the sort moronic chatter common on message boards. But it also had some interesting viewpoints, including a calculation by a poster called "St. Savior" that showed that the removal of basic perks could erode the pay rises awarded to certain Ryanair pilots.

What does this mean for investors? Detox's take: Ryanair's revenue outlook must be so lackluster that the company is now trying to silence Web sites as part of an almighty effort to keep costs down.

Hmmm....... all this fuss about nothing! :}

Is there an echo in here???

Unions is one thing. They have their use.

Another type of action is justice. Bringing Ryanair's management to justice with no tolerance anymore, at the slightest attempt of misconduct, can increase employees strength. Both techniques are complimentary.

It's only sad to have to go to such lengths to get some respect and normal T&Cs while all this could be done peacefully, through negociation and win-win deals.

But I know a number of lawyers who would love to take some FR cases on.

Lawsuits can be triggered by groups and/or individuals.

Whatever about lawyers wanting to take cases on, they will only do so if they can hope to win – and to do that they need some evidence that will stand up in court. Not only do they need evidence, but they also need SOMEBODY who is willing to stand up and take the case. We need to “get real about the realities” here. There are very few people who are willing to do this. Many, many people have left Ryanair having been abused. Many currently believe themselves to be abused. There are sufficient numbers of such people, the majority of whom are not pilots, to open up the entire can of worms. Interestingly, they never do so even after leaving. Which makes all claims of bullying and intimidation no more than “rumour”. Ryanair employees may “know” or “claim” that this is not really a “rumour” – but until it is proved it cannot be claimed to be a fact.

Another problem is that Ryanair staff know how to interpret and decode Ryanair memos, etc. The memo from a middle manager in STN “encouraging” pilots to attend a meeting has been discussed – but not posted on PPRUNE. The feeling abroad is that the memo brought obvious pressure onto STN pilots. BUT, perhaps a non-Ryanair person might not see that memo as being as intimidating as a Ryanair employee? Can somebody post it so that we can have a look?

To change tack slightly, is it not interesting that nobody ever seems to have heard of a Ryanair crewmember being unfit for duty due to fatigue? I don’t have anything on fatigue, but I do have one memo, which I have copied and reproduced below. It concerns staff sickness and has been regularly sent to individual staff members, including those who have a legal obligation not to turn up for work if unfit.

I think a Ryanair employee will know how to interpret this document. Is it also not rather interesting that Ryanair only seems to employ cabin crew that are sick for very few days a year? What excellent selection methods they must have. I am sure that the following memo has nothing to do with it. Here is the memo:

It's also interesting to hear from crew members who have received the above mentioned memo but have only been sick for one day or even less. Sent to all crew members in order to intimidate them. Hardly fair !

The reason nobody goes sick "due to fatigue" is purely because of the real threat hanging over them if they did. Remember, everyone is on 12 months probation and can be dropped with one weeks notice, but in reality is less. The threat is "go sick - get sacked" but it's called "not coming up to the required standards and therefore as you are on probation, your contract is terminated".......

How many Buzz crew are being threatened into signing a new contract that has already been proved by a lawyer to be "worthless" ?

IMHO - the bubble will burst sooner than we think :E

St Saviour Interesting last comment. A fuss about nothing hey :confused:

May I compliment the writter of the article above for a piece well written specially: That is such a good point, the biggest buly does not like it that the bullied people have a way of complaining and that he can not reach... Pprune power!! :ok:

The best part is if something goes wrong at RYR in the future that MOL now by formally acknowliging that the thread exists cannot hide and say he was not aware that staff never complained about certain safety issues, labor relations and possible strikes etc etc... :ok:

I say we all start a new Ryanair discussion on PPRUNE. Let them never die out, and let it never be hidden - what this airline is all about.

Good point Aloue.

Only, things will never begin until they actually begin. Nothing lasts forever. And yes, MOL will have an end. The USSR has finished. Back in time, I never thought it would. Well it did.

You think people will never dare to act. They actually will at some point : in 1 month, 3 months, 12 or 36. A change WILL happen and it will be very dark times for MOL and his followers.

Did anyone else see O'Leary on CNBC this morning?

Lots of pointed questions about union representation, "fast women and horses" and reference to a certain website.....

The City (and by "City", I mean not just London but Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt as well....cities who's burghers are already uneasy about O'Leary's bombast) is gradually waking up to this one.....arch capitalists we may be to the core, but if we see a company with an unhappy workforce, it usually spells deeper troubles....

Is it the same Tony Blair at the TUC conference this afternoon speaking about the absolute right of employees to choose union representation in the workplace who also chose to fly Ryanair a couple of weeks ago coming home from his "holiday" in Pisa?

Does'nt he read pprune?

The letter copied by Aloue was interesting. As far as I am aware it is an offence to fly when sick and most, if not all Airline’s Operations Manuals make that clear. I would have thought that by now the IAA should be considering whether the person who wrote the letter is a fit a proper person to be in a Management position. If not it will reflect very poorly on the IAA and its commitment to flight safety.

sky9,

I feel that it may fall on deaf ears. The current opinion of employers seem to be that casual sickness is on the rise and is becoming a problem. A major UK supermarket chain recently introduced a policy of deducting wages for sickness (endorsed by the union as well!). And I heard today that York council are introducing a policy wereby employees have to call a nurse when they report sick, on the basis that they can receive expert medical assistance for their ailments. Some would argue that a nurse is more qualified to judge whether someone is swinging the lead than a manager would be! As long as this opinion pervades, their will be an element of suspicion about anybody reporting sick for duty.

Spot on Big Tudor

Add to that, the fact that BA can actually chart the 'sickness' ratio coincident with notable events such as the World Cup, Olympics, and all manner of other events!

I'm reliably imformed that there was much correlation!

Jack, if what you're saying is true, I find it very sad as this is having a very negative impact on all employees. This is throwing discredit on a majority of honnest employees.

However, I feel this letter is the expression of a serious midconduct from management as the employee is being considered as a liar prior to any other sort of consideration. I have been sick twice this year. Once for one day, once for two days. I could not even have started an engine or analysed a met report properly.

It is undoubtedly true that organisations can track sickness rates as Jack has said. It is equally true that those working irregular hours and weekends are more prone to the kind of correlations to which Jack refers. It is also true that certain “spikes” in sickness rates are sometimes so remarkable as to strain belief.

However, note that Jack does not specify that he is talking about pilots. Some pilots, particularly younger pilots, may indeed show some tendency to the same syndrome. However, the available evidence suggests that of all the employee groups in any given company the pilots have by far the lowest incidence of such statistically interesting behaviour. (The general incidence of the syndrome may vary from company to company, but that is another subject).

The point is that for as long as pilots have a legal obligation to be fit for duty they must in the first instance be given the benefit of any doubt.

What we have started to do here is drift from the subject, which is the impact of the Ryanair culture on the willingness of pilots (and cabin crew for that matter) to turn up for duty in a fit state. The consensus seems to be that the impact of the Ryanair culture is not favourable to making such decisions. (Which, if you wish, can be taken to be a tactful way of say it is blindingly obvious to everyone except Ryanair management, the CAA, the IAA and some PPRuNe posters).

OK, any truth in the rumour that WB is about to depart :confused:

Best thing he could ever do if true :ok:

Could the Gods be smiling upon us?