Virgin under the influence
 

News reports of a Virgin Atlantic pilot detained in Washington prior to operating flight. Flight 22 / 18th I believe. Suspected of being under the influence of alcohol. Looks like one way or another we are all in for increased scrutiny at security.
..Make that the 19th....

Virgin Pilot held on Drink allegations
 

BBC news 24 are reporting that a Virgin Atlantic pilot is being held under the suspicion of being under the influence of Alcohol http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/default.stm


hopefully this will turn out to be false.

Whispering Giant:

The link you posted just took me to the main BBC news page, which doesn't seem to have a link to the article any more. Anyway, I dug a little deeper and found the article in "The Americas" section, so here's a link straight to that page:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3336255.stm

Doesn't really say a hell of a lot though beyond your straight report of the story!

Tipsy Virgin pilot removed from plane

Dec 20, 2003

The captain of a Virgin Atlantic airliner about to fly from Washington to London was removed from the plane after he was suspected of being drunk.

Police at Washington's Dulles Airport were still investigating the incident involving a Boeing 747-400 jet, which was scheduled to carry 383 passengers.

"We haven't charged him with anything at this point," said Tara Hamilton, a spokeswoman for the Metropolitan Washington Airport Authority.

However, Virgin Atlantic canceled its Flight 22 to Heathrow, London's main airport, and rescheduled it for Saturday evening, an airline spokesman said.

"The pilot has been suspended with immediate effect and will face an internal inquiry," the spokesman said.

Virgin has put up the passengers at area hotels and promised them a free future flight, he said.

An airport transportation security screener alerted police that pilot might be drunk.

After an interview on the plane, the pilot was removed before any of the passengers had boarded, Hamilton said.

Reuters

http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_det...61-1-9,00.html

___________________________

Pilot Detained After Alcohol Detected

Friday, December 19, 2003 11:06 p.m. ET

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A Virgin Atlantic Airways pilot was detained shortly before his flight Friday night after security screeners detected alcohol on his breath, according to the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority.

Virgin Atlantic Flight 22, scheduled to leave Washington Dulles International Airport for London's Heathrow at 7:15 p.m., was canceled after the pilot was escorted off the plane by airport police.

Police responded to a call by the Transportation Safety Administration reporting suspicion of a pilot being under the influence of alcohol.

The pilot had gone through security screening and boarded the plane, said Tara Hamilton, Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority spokeswoman. He was being held and questioned at the airport Friday evening.

Virgin Atlantic spokesman John Riordan said 383 passengers were scheduled for the flight. They are being accommodated at hotels and are rescheduled for an evening flight Saturday.

http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/s...=wn_wire_story

Hi, thoughts with the crewmember concerned. Hopefully turn out as false allegations. Just checked my logbook and the IAD trip departs around 2240Z, approx 28 hrs after arriving.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me, I can't imagine a security guard having an axe to grind.................anyway time will tell.

There used to be a very good book going around that talked of the bad old days and pilots flying around drunk and high or on no sleep after the all night parties of old, can anyone remenber this one?

Willie

Khaosai

I'd like to think that you might spare a thought for his potential pax too. Or are they just mere SLF, not quite the same status as some of these god almighty pilots in their own mind?

If the allegations prove correct they could have had put their lifes put in danger by his selfish behaviour or do they really not matter in the equation, while you rally around your own regardless of the possible potential consequences of their indulgent, undisciplined, reckless behaviour. Poor drunk pilots me granny, I pity their pax & anyone else who has to put up with their irresponsible, childish behaviour & the sooner their weeded out of the industry ther better because we'd all be better off without them. If the allegations prove correct he deserves everything that's coming to him & more IMHO. :mad:

What is it with pilots & alcohol anyway? :rolleyes:

Coconuts

Funny that - We quite often say " what is it with passengers & alcohol anyway?

Coconuts, whoa whoa chap, take it easy. I appreciate the professional aspect of the job, so yes drinking and flying don't mix. I think we need to wait and see what the outcome is. Your name conjures up memories of a deserted beach in the indian ocean........so chill out. Rgds.

ETOPS

Not with this pax you don't besides they don't have hundreds of peoples lives in their care so you can't make the same equation. Maybe there all tanking up before their flights cause there afraid it might be flown by some tanked up pilot, would you blame them?

(Oh & what's it with the weird homepage mate, thought that kinda thing was a no no on here)????

Khaosai

This subject has been bothering me for a long time, but I've been biting my lip each time it keeps up, sorry that you had to be sounding board for my pent up wrath, just the way you worded it mate.

There have been too many instances lately of pilots turning up for flights smelling of alcohol and these have been helthily debated on this site.

However, I can't seem to remember an occasion when a pilot has been arrested on suspicion of being over the limit for an evening flight, all the ones I can remember have been the 1st flight of the day.

Any pilot who turns up for an evening flight smelling of alcohol has either had one hell of a drinking session the night before or has bee totally irresponsible and neglectful of his duties by having had drinks in the afternoon prior to the flight.

I sincerely hope that these allegations are proved to be false but the fact remains that drinking and flying, like drinking and driving is something to be frowned upon and discouraged.

What bugs me about this, and indeed some previous incidents, is why the 'security staff' or whoever, allow the Pilot they are suspicious of to get as far as the aircraft!

Indeed, in this case, they even managed to board 300+ pax before doing anything. There must have been 30+ minutes notice if this event, during which boarding continued and further disruption was assured.

This would have been far less public and newsworthy had the original suspicions been acted on immediately.

There is a hint of unnecessary delay here that elevated this allegation to headline status.

Coconuts - you don't have to look too far back when passengers ended up being responsible for hundreds of lives with devastating consequences.

If the allegations are true then the culprit should indeed be hung out to dry and let it be a lesson to anyone else abusing responsibility in such a way.

If, as Khaosi was suggesting, it's all a big mistake (which I hope it is) then my thoughts will also be with the person concerned.

If there is a big problem "with pilots and alcohol" then don't bite your lip spit it out and let's hear about it.

:confused:

Coconuts.

What do you do for a living?

Besides being perfect that is.

L337

Coconuts,

What exactly do you do ?

Generalising that pilots and alcohol are inextricably linked is not true. The problem is miniscule when you bear in mind how many flights are operated in the world every day. If, and it is if, he has been stupid then he will pay the consequences of his actions, lose his job, probably be unable to find employment again in the industry and have to deal with the knock-on effects on his family and their lives this Christmas.

Perhaps if you were a pilot, you might begin to understand the stresses many have to suffer, being away from home, having to cope with time zone changes, disrupted sleep patterns causing fatigue and tiredness, night flying etc etc.

And don't think I am defending him if he is guilty because I am not, but I can understand why it happens. People jump into cars every day thinking they are fit to drive when they are not, endangering their lives and others. Ever done it yourself ?

caniplay etc. ,...or has just used an alcohol-soaked wipe to clean his headphones?

Coconut The freedom of the internet is a wonderful thing on the whole, but the downside is it gives a disproportionate importance to the biased ramblings of people like yourself.

You say about pilots,The thing is, this is just not true. Professional pilots are nearly to a man and woman amongst the most disciplined, self-controlled and responsible set of individuals you could find. The job demands nothing less - it's as simple as that.

The real fact is that the incidence of alcohol as a contributory factor in airline accidents is simply not statistically significant. But I guess that's just not exciting enough for you.

Why don't you go jump on another bandwagon.

Willie Nelson


How can you possibly say that without knowing all the facts or are you a Washington Law Enforcement officer?

As for the security guards how much do you think they earn?

Prick

Haven't had such a laugh in ages :}

Hey, coconuts; have you never driven more than 30mph in a built up area? Never?!!?

And if the crew member is found innocent (i.e. not over the limit), then who pays the pax hotel bills - who refunds Virgin? And in this litignous world, can't we sue the authorities/"security" for delays, missed connections, etc ...??? :}

Aircrew & Alcohol related detention
 

I would ask those contributing to bear the following in mind.

The Captain of the recent BA Oslo incident was hounded by the press for 11 days. The media were camped outside his house for the entire duration until his blood test returned with a result of zero alcohol in his blood, therefore no more headlines - story over. By this time the pressure was so intense he had resigned.

I would hope that those who are aware of this pilot's identity refrain from revealing it.

Wow! Thats news to me Maxfli. And good news too!

So why hasn't THAT been publicised a little more? There wasn't a mention of it, even here, until you just made that post!

Where do you get your information? If this is true it needs to be highlighted a bit more, don't you think!

I'm just an interested passenger so I can't really understand this issue even arising. The question I asked on a similar topic about a BA pilot a few weeks ago was never really answered so here goes again.....

IF this chap is guilty - or just thinking about other proven cases in the past - the crews concerned must be aware that they are over the limit.

The limit is so low that if a security guard or anybody else for that matter suspects they have been drinking then they surely must be well over the very low tolerance levels allowed. Why don't they just call in sick?

OK, this would cause serious hassle for all concerned arranging a relief crew etc and delayed departures, but holding up in a hotel room for a few hours must be referable to throwing it all away? I know this would be dishonest but surely it's better than losing your job, possibly a lifetimes work or worse.

Coconuts
Why have you already decided the pilot is guilty? Not only that, you think all of us are drunks staggering from airport bar to airport bar. I can appreciate you having your own opinion but you have to have at least some support for what you say. Just because you say something doesn't make it so. Maybe you have a bone to pick with a particular pilot? If so, please know that there are those of us who are responsible and who respect the trust the passengers put in us.
peace

Pilot Suspected of Drinking
Virgin Atlantic Aviator Held; Dulles-London Flight Canceled

By Clarence Williams and Martin Weil
Washington Post Staff Writers

Saturday, December 20, 2003; Page B01

A pilot for Virgin Atlantic Airways was detained at Dulles International Airport for a possible drinking violation last night, shortly before he was to fly almost 400 passengers to London, authorities said.

"One of our pilots has been detained by the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority police on suspicion of being under the influence of alcohol," said John Riordan, a spokesman for Virgin Atlantic.

Amy von Walter, a spokeswoman for the Transportation Security Administration, said a screener did "detect the smell of alcohol" at an airport checkpoint.

The pilot proceeded to the cockpit of the 747, where airline officials confronted him, then asked police to remove him, an airports authority spokeswoman said.

FAA regulations prohibit consumption of alcohol within eight hours of flying, an FAA spokesman said. He said the blood alcohol limit is 0.04.

The pilot's name could not be learned, and no information about his background was available. Late last night, the airports authority spokeswoman said that the pilot was being detained while an investigation was pursued but that no charges had been filed. The airline said the pilot had been suspended.

The flight was canceled before passengers boarded, and hotel accommodations were found for them. A replacement pilot was expected to fly them to London today, the airline spokesman said.

"We're all very upset," said passenger Martin Kind of Annapolis. He said that his wife and son were in London and that he had planned to join them there today. "Now I'm going to have to schlep all the way back to Annapolis or stay in the hotel."

Referring to the pilot, Kind asked, "What was he thinking?"

FAA and airline spokesmen said incidents such as last night's are rare. Riordan called passenger safety and security the airline's "number one priority" and said Virgin Atlantic followed a "strict no-alcohol policy."

Riordan said the flight, designated as VS 022, was scheduled to leave at 7:30 p.m., with 383 passengers -- almost a full load. The airliner was to land at 7:05 a.m.

Riordan said Virgin's duty manager at Dulles told the passengers the reason for the flight's cancellation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2003Dec20.html

Sick Squid

As this poor guys name is plastered over practicaly every news site on the net, is it not a bit pointless to try and keep it secret on this site?

No. The fundamental difference on this site is that people can post with knowledge of the person, both with good intentions and with bad, as happened recently following the last allegations. Keeping the debate generic respects the gentleman's right to privacy and a fair hearing, and as a fellow pilot we owe him that even if other medias do not have that respect.

He has now been charged by the Police in Washington with attempting to operate an aircraft while intoxicated which would suggest there is a reasonable body of evidence against him.

I agree Jet II, he has been named now by the BBC and is named in the links to news stories above, but if the moderators have requested he not be named he then that should be respected.

Hey, coconuts; have you never driven more than 30mph in a built up area?

I have, I do all the time, but I can't see how that is a comparable offence to turning up to fly a large passenger jet drunk.

Note: Notwithstanding the above, I am not presuming that this man is guilty. According to Virgin, he has been with the airline 14 years and has an unblemished record.

Only a question, but who can tell me, how many airline accidents have been CAUSED by drunken pilots?

More to the point, how many have been caused by pilots with 0.2 or 0.4 pro mill readings?

Fatigue is a FAR more significant factor than these levels of alcohol.

But of course politicians don't tighten the rules regarding fatigue, they slacken them. Fatigue is not easily tested, nor smelled on the breath, and airlines seem to want ever more work from fewer and fewer pilots!

Let's get these issues in perspective!

While I can see Sick Squids point, Jet II has a valid one as well.

However...Took me 3 clicks from this page to find the guys name out. So if you really have to know, then it's out there on every other news site for all to find and therefore no real need to put it on here I guess.

I'm just amazed that Virgin pilots drink as well, I thought everyone else was T total apart for BA crews, however the papers still manage to put BA back in the spotlight in their articles. As has been said on here as well, forgetting to include the fact that people have been vindicated.:ugh:

Todays papers... tommorrows trash.

On another tack: it does seem a pity that the passengers are subjected to such a long delay and Virgin incurs extra costs. Airlines have reciprocal technical agreements. Here comes a naïve question: — at a large airport like Washington would it be totally impossible to have a crewing arrangement which would allow for a type-rated replacement before the rest of the crew are out of hours? Does this already happen (but was not possible in this case)?

The recent stranded Virgin passengers in Miami suffered the same fate....are tonights crew due for a slagging off as they walk to the gate....or will a "free" ticket cool them off.
You would think that economics would dictate a "standby crew"
on the East Coast within 3 hours of most Virgin locations.

sorry to hear it, here goes the press again !
tried and convicted and you just know the lawyers are going to have a field day,
what with old miss's smith being so traumatised that she barely goes out anymore ! - ' maybe a stress payout will help her confront the terrible nightmares she is now suffering !!!
if the individual is guilty well he has no place in flying but we don't know that yet.

The press would be better off having a look at night operations where crews are so tired they are falling asleep.
Alot more common but hey doesn't fall under that big political umbrella called 'enhanced security' and therefore little less headline grabbing !

Hang on a minute!
 

Ladies and Gentlemen, please!

Could we perhaps refrain from reaching for the rope long enough to examine the human factors aspects of this report? Rather than the presumption of guilt, we would do well to reflect on the nature of long haul operations, and the ever increasing commercial pressure applied to these pilots that lend themselves to uncharacteristic behavior.
Rest periods are minimised to the letter of the law and time off between rotations is becoming less and less, its no wonder that people make judgmental errors.

Without prejudice to the Virgin Captain, and with a raised eyebrow as to the appropriateness of security staff making unqualified judgments as to the fitness for flight of professional airmen, I would suggest that regulatory scrutiny be applied in the first instance to the pilots duty hours for the preceding months, and the number of time zones and prime REM sleep period violations he’s be forced by his employer to endure.

We’re human beings, not robots.

Maxalt

I can categorically tell you that Captain McAuliffe's blood test returned negative. However this was not reported by the scum at the tabloid press. He resigned because he is a highly decent honourable man.

With that in mind why don't the sad little people on here who are so quick to condemn wind their necks in.

Just because the Virgin Captain has been charged doesn't mean he's guilty of an accusation by someone who could earn more at McDonalds.

However I suppose you haven't got anything better to do.

BoeingMEL, are you some sort of lowlife that writes for the tabloid press?

Who the ffuk do you think you are casting aspertions on a highly respectable professional who has been found to have had 0 - ZERO alcohol upon testing?

And what exactly do you mean by this fact being "... VERY different to the events which were reliably relayed elsewhere"?

Reliable - Where?
Elsewhere?

if you are prosecuted for Drink/Driving in a car you will probably screw up your life for a year or so .......

if you get caught drink/driving an aircraft (or attempting to do so) you are probably going to screw up your life for good !!!!

My brother in Law has his own rule ....... 24hrs before a trip - absolutely zero Alcohol !!!!! ..... no exceptions - period !!!!

it sounds tough but it works ....

Although I have no view on the Virgin incident - the Police etc will do whatever they do in cases like this and I hope that the allegations are shown to be groundless and then given the same level of media coverage - I do have an interest in aviation and alcohol.

In the UK there is now legislation that sets absolute limits for the amount of alcohol in blood for people involved in operating, maintaining or controlling aircraft. The CAA recently published the following words Assuming this to be correct (it comes from GASIL), and in the interests of accuracy, claims that anyone's blood/alcohol result is zero must be suspect.

For those of us who belong to BALPA (The British Air Line Pilots Association) the house journal 'The Log' thudded on the doormat this week. On page 23, in the General Flight Safety News section, under the heading 'Alcohol Testing in the USA', it details with chilling accuracy, the procedure which would appear to have been followed in this instance.

Yep, drug and alcohol testing, still somewhat novel in the UK, has been the norm in the US for years now. Under our system, the alcohol limits for mechanics, flight attendants and dispatchers are the same as for pilots (.02% removal from duty, .04% loss of license and major legal woes).

Also, under our system, if you apply for rehab, it does seem to give you some legal protection.

In the recent America West incident in MIA, the pilots jumped bail to go to rehab right away. It annoyed the judge but they were later able to cop a walk on some of the more serious criminal charges (see: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...home-headlines ).