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biggin air show

Old 4th Jun 2001, 12:49
  #41 (permalink)  
Rallye Driver
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I was at Biggen on Sunday and was directly opposite where it happened. Having read the so-called 'eye witness' accounts in the paper this morning I wondered if I was at the same event - too much speculation, too little fact.

Truly a tragic weekend. My condolences to the families, friends and colleagues of those killed.
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 13:10
  #42 (permalink)  
VivaTheBeaver
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I witnessed the tragic event on Sunday, standing in the crowd across the airfield, as the aircraft reached the top of its loop it soon became apparent that it was in trouble. I watched helplessly with the rest of the crowd as the aircraft fell to the ground. I felt sick and a tear came to my eye as I saw the ball of fire on the other side of the field. I didn’t know the pilot, but would like to offer my deepest sympathies to his family.

To happier times.

VTB
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 13:13
  #43 (permalink)  
tiger burn
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My sincere condolences to the families,friends & colleagues of those who so tragically lost their lives this weekend. I was at Old Warden yesterday & the news that a second fatal crash had occurred at Biggin was met with stunned disbelief. Having lost 2 friends (both warbird display pilots)in previous accidents I have searched for a few words to reflect my respect in these circumstances.

We thank them for the joy they gave to the thousands who watched them fly. We thank them for their professionalism & enthusiasm which have touched and inspired so many of all ages. We thank them for their passion for both flying & for life.

RIP
(remembering also MH&TM)
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 13:19
  #44 (permalink)  
BOAC
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Like all here I mourn the losses of the weekend. Sunday took away a colleague and friend. Being out of the country I have not seen the names of the Vampire crew.

Sincerest condolences to all who have lost.

Per Ardua ad Astra.
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 13:45
  #45 (permalink)  
CRX
 
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Just read on Sky and BBC websites that the P63 pilot has been named as Guy Bancroft-Wilson, a BA pilot based at LGW. I seem to remember he was a member of the Red Arrows in the early nineties, possibly manager?
Deepest sympathies to all those who knew him particularly his wife and three young children.
CRX
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Old 4th Jun 2001, 14:06
  #46 (permalink)  
swashplate
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Condolonces to all concerned........bloody awful weekend.

I seem to remember a doc on the Red Arrows about 1990. If I remember rightly, there was a Pilot Flt Lt called Guy Bancroft-Wilson. The double-barrelled name stuck in my memory....

------------------
Live long and Prosper.....
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 14:16
  #47 (permalink)  
jeremy
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Guy was Red 9 in 87, 2 in 88 and 4 in 89. RIP
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 14:44
  #48 (permalink)  
neutral99
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Foxxy
Although Zlin526 may have been a little harsh, I agree with his sentiments. Three people have just lost their lives.
Unless, I have also completely misunderstood, you did seem to be blaming the pilots. Isn't it rather insensitive to make such comments at such a painful time for their family and friends?
Your conclusions may be right, I can't comment. I didn't see the accidents and, even if I had, I wouldn't be as quick as you to jump to conclusions.
You seem to be arguing for more interference by the CAA in air shows. Don't you have confidence in display pilots to make their own decisions? Most of my display flying was in the 80's when CAA interference was minimal, and when the HAA was still just an association of like-minded people with a common interest in displaying historic aircraft. I think it was better then.

Smaug
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">" ..... in the light of the Vampire tragedy it would appear to be common sense not to carry a passenger unless it was absolutely necessary, would it not?</font>
No. I don't agree. Passengers who ride in the back of a display aircraft are invariably closely involved in the display world and almost invariably involved in the operation of the a/c concerned. They are fully aware of the risks involved, that the a/c may develop a fault, that the pilot may make a mistake, and that any accident is highly likely to be fatal. In my view, we should not interfere with the right of a consenting adult to make that decision about his own life. I'm not a supporter of the 'nanny state' interfering in the free informed choice of someone to take a risk. (I obviously take a different view if the safety of third parties is involved.)
Before the rules were changed, we frequently rode in the back in someone else's display. I would do both again, and believe that I should have the freedom to decide for myself whether to take the risk.
Perhaps a suitable compromise would be that the passenger must be a pilot.

My sincere condolences to the families and friends of those who died. I hope it's some small comfort that, like all display pilots, they'd got so much enjoyment doing what they loved.
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 15:07
  #49 (permalink)  
Foxxy
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Neutral99, why on earth would i be "blaming" friends that i knew, as i am an EGHH pilot myself, there is a huge difference between saying they died unessarily, and saying it was pilot error - which, for the record no one has said, and the only organisation that can is the AAIB.

And for the record yes i do believe that procedures do need to be looked at with regard to DA's and the flying it involves.

 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 15:30
  #50 (permalink)  
shocka
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Just read a book by USAAF Flt Lt Ted Park on his Aeracobra experiences in New Guinea.
Very interesting reading.
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 16:20
  #51 (permalink)  
ETOPS
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I have just learned of the very tragic loss of a friend and colleague Captain Guy Bancroft-Wilson. When Guy joined BA he initially operated on the 757/767 fleet in LHR and LGW as a co-pilot. He and I flew together on a number of times and as I was well aware of his history felt honoured to have "Red 4" as my No 2. More than that, Guy was a tremendously nice man as well as a talented pilot and never once mentioned his service career unless pushed to.
Last year he bid for and achieved a 737 Command at LGW were again I saw him regularly as I operated through there on longhaul 767 operations. I could tell that he slipped into "Captain mode" with ease and I had the pleasure of a jumpseat ride to MAN with Guy at the helm which simply confirmed his obvious skill.
I could go on but will simply finish thus:- All of us here love aviation in all it's forms but Guy has paid the highest price for that passion. We cannot afford to lose people of his calibre.........

My deepest sympathies to his family and friends.


Richard Bennison
Captain BA777
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 16:35
  #52 (permalink)  
swashplate
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ETOPS (Cap'n Bennison);

Just out of interest, do you mean that he commanded B737 without having flown them before as co-pilot?
I thought you had to fly a type as co-pilot before command, then you could transfer..???

Not having a go at anyone, just interested.

Of course, I re-iterate my condolences on his and everyone else's deaths on this ghastly weekend.



[This message has been edited by swashplate (edited 04 June 2001).]
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 16:49
  #53 (permalink)  
Final 3 Greens
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After the terrible weekend at Biggin, it is easy to become very depressed.

I was just thinking on the drive into Heathrow this morning about the pleasure that the warbird display pilots give to all of us.

My son is only six years old; in his short life, he has learned to love aeroplanes and has seen countless Spitfires, Hurricanes and Mustangs, as well as many other types such as Thunderbolt, Sea Fury, Invader, B17, Lancaster, Hunter and Mosquito.

The joy on his face when he sees an old warbird ("nearly as old as Grandad") is a sight to see.

Thanks to all of you display pilots, past and present, for letting us share very special sights that otherwise would only exist in books or on film.

 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 17:48
  #54 (permalink)  
Secret Squirrel
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Having had experience of a similar nature, though not in aviation, from the point of view of his family and friends, in amoungst all their grief - and it will be much - their only consolation will be that this fine young man died doing what he loved most. This is more than will be able to be said about most of us postumously.

My deepest sympathies to his wife and three young children as well as to all his friends.

Swashplate:

Just to answer your question, as I'm sure it will be lost in the melee: My friend's dad spent 17 years in the right hand seat of various aircraft - latterly the 737 - and moved to the left hand seat of a 747 at BA.
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 18:00
  #55 (permalink)  
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Re: earlier comment by "Whitesail". The 1996 incidents occurred one week apart. I was one of the organisers at Barton in July 96 and the events are etched indelibly on my mind.

Sympathies to all concerned at the weekend - and I would like to express sympathy/empathy with the organisers, crash crews, etc who were directly involved - having been through the experience, I know how you are feeling right now. Took me a long time to get over it (arguably I still havent).
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 18:27
  #56 (permalink)  
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Notso, I've edited this message out because I think it will take the thread down an avenue we do not wish it to go. I fully understand the motive behind your words, and having briefed alongside and accepted an aircraft off Captain Bancroft-Wilson many times feel a keen sense of loss.

I am sure you'll understand why I'm doing this, and also that after your anger has subsided you will agree with me.

Sick Squid
Rumours and News Moderator and fellow BA Captain




[This message has been edited by Sick Squid (edited 04 June 2001).]
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 18:48
  #57 (permalink)  
AC-DC
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I haven’t been to Biggin this year, but I witnessed the 1996 crash of the P-38 Lightning at Duxford. It happened about 150’ away and straight opposite from where I stood. I steal can see the dust coming from the left prop, the wing tip moving up and down and than a very big, hot and bright ball of fire. I felt numb for the rest of the day.

As much as I love aviation this weekend events bring to my mind the question, is it worth it? Good people lose their life in order to provide us with entertainment, lovely aircraft that can not be replaced are lost forever. Isn’t it better to stick with the straight and level, some 30 or 60 turns and that is? Isn’t the paid price just too high?
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 18:58
  #58 (permalink)  
Sick Squid
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I wouldn't normally step in like this, but to answer Swashplates question, you do not have to have previously flown an aircraft as a co-pilot in order to do a command course on that type.

If anyone wishes to discuss the procedure for gaining a command then please do so on Tech Log. Lets keep this thread on what is a sad and emotional topic,and refrain from sideline discussions or personal attacks.

A very sad weekend for aviation, more so for all the families and friends of the unfortunate fellow pilots.

Sick Squid
Rumours and News Moderator

[This message has been edited by Sick Squid (edited 04 June 2001).]
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 19:01
  #59 (permalink)  
TobyJ
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Just a quick message to add my sympathy and pass on condolences to the families and friends of those involved in the tragic accidents over the weekend.

I have not been flying long and this is the first time a colleague and friend has been involved so it comes somewhat as a shock. I met Guy just after he took his command at Gatwick and was instantly taken to his open and friendly character. Knowing him for only a short time I can still honestly say that he will be sadly missed.
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 19:21
  #60 (permalink)  
swashplate
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Angel

Point taken, 6!

Was just interested, but should really have thought before posting!!

Many apologies - see you at the bash!
 

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