Heathrow T4 a/c congestion
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,424
Likes: 34
From: London,England
T4 and all the other parts of LHR are bursting at the seams and the results are there for everyone to see on most mornings. Ah well, once bmi and all the other Star Alliance airlines have moved into T5 in a few years time BA will be able to run lots of their longhaul from T3 so the problem will be sorted!!
Doh, must have been dreaming, slumy old T1 for us I think.
Doh, must have been dreaming, slumy old T1 for us I think.
Paxing All Over The World
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,841
Likes: 328
From: Hertfordshire, UK.
I suspect that the problem might mutate but it will not go away. LHR 'works' only because of a remarkable crowd of human beings that are trying to run the place in a manner that rsembles an efficient international airport.
Almost all of the threads about LHR come back to BAA's doorstep. YES, BA might be the largest customer and YES BA are also cutting back on staff to a ridiculous degree but no company can hope to do well when they are renting facilities in a location that is badly run. It would be the same in a multi-tenanted tower block.
In due course something will go wrong and BAA will be at the heart of it.
Almost all of the threads about LHR come back to BAA's doorstep. YES, BA might be the largest customer and YES BA are also cutting back on staff to a ridiculous degree but no company can hope to do well when they are renting facilities in a location that is badly run. It would be the same in a multi-tenanted tower block.
In due course something will go wrong and BAA will be at the heart of it.
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 978
Likes: 0
From: EGCC
BA to ease congestion at T$?
Thought the following may be of interest:
"Subject: BA Winter Schedule
Another change for the winter 2003 season is that British Airways' flights from London Heathrow to Johannesburg and Tokyo will operate from Heathrow's Terminal 1 instead of Terminal 4 from October 26, 2003. Both these routes have a high number of transfer passengers, many of whom will no longer have to swap terminals at Heathrow for their connecting flights. This is the first phase of British Airways' flight switches between Heathrow terminals which will help make better use of the existing facilities prior to the opening of Terminal 5 in 2008. To support these additional longhaul services, a major programme of infrastructure improvements is taking place at Terminal 1 including new lounges and check-in facilities."
Cheers
"Subject: BA Winter Schedule
Another change for the winter 2003 season is that British Airways' flights from London Heathrow to Johannesburg and Tokyo will operate from Heathrow's Terminal 1 instead of Terminal 4 from October 26, 2003. Both these routes have a high number of transfer passengers, many of whom will no longer have to swap terminals at Heathrow for their connecting flights. This is the first phase of British Airways' flight switches between Heathrow terminals which will help make better use of the existing facilities prior to the opening of Terminal 5 in 2008. To support these additional longhaul services, a major programme of infrastructure improvements is taking place at Terminal 1 including new lounges and check-in facilities."
Cheers
Last edited by PPRuNe Towers; 12th July 2003 at 21:10.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 4,432
Likes: 33
From: LHR/EGLL
Yes, the so-called 'Project Iceberg'.
We can only hope that some short-hual routes will got from T1 to T4 in return, if not it'll be horrendous. Even if that is the case, it's going to increase towing movments putting more pressure on GMC.
Gonzo.
We can only hope that some short-hual routes will got from T1 to T4 in return, if not it'll be horrendous. Even if that is the case, it's going to increase towing movments putting more pressure on GMC.
Gonzo.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: West Sussex , UK
Hello chaps,
Been reading with interest about all the probs you have at EGLL T4 with stands!!
I work at Gatwick and I've now come to the conclusion that the airport/apron authorities who decide on stand allocation have no idea what they are doing.
At Gatwick we frequently have aircraft which arrive (both long and short haul) and their stand is occupied or unavailable for some reason. However ,since we seem to have become somewhat quieter apres 9/11, we usually have a plethora of unnoccupied stands which they could use. (NOT only in the same terminal but often adjacent stands!! So the argument about customs, baggage handlers and ground crews etc goes out the window in my view!!)
This is a NIGHTMARE for us folks in the tower and all it takes is two or three a'c to have to "hold" and the apron becomes rapidly gridlocked!! Hence why you hear a rapidly harrassed GMC controller on the RT for the next while.
SO lads at heathrow my heart goes out to you but don;t be fooled into thinking that the BAA would do anything about it even if you had the stands to spare !!
Been reading with interest about all the probs you have at EGLL T4 with stands!!
I work at Gatwick and I've now come to the conclusion that the airport/apron authorities who decide on stand allocation have no idea what they are doing.
At Gatwick we frequently have aircraft which arrive (both long and short haul) and their stand is occupied or unavailable for some reason. However ,since we seem to have become somewhat quieter apres 9/11, we usually have a plethora of unnoccupied stands which they could use. (NOT only in the same terminal but often adjacent stands!! So the argument about customs, baggage handlers and ground crews etc goes out the window in my view!!)
This is a NIGHTMARE for us folks in the tower and all it takes is two or three a'c to have to "hold" and the apron becomes rapidly gridlocked!! Hence why you hear a rapidly harrassed GMC controller on the RT for the next while.
SO lads at heathrow my heart goes out to you but don;t be fooled into thinking that the BAA would do anything about it even if you had the stands to spare !!
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 383
Likes: 0
From: London
If BA are moving a few Long Haul flights to T1 where are they going to find the space in the Terminal.
The departures area is packed most of the time so how will it cope when you add in a few 747-400s passenger loads.
The departures area is packed most of the time so how will it cope when you add in a few 747-400s passenger loads.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
From: Farnham, Surrey. ENGLAND
Stu baby
"SO lads at heathrow my heart goes out to you but don;t be fooled into thinking that the BAA would do anything about it even if you had the stands to spare !!"
Allocation in both T4 ( and T1) isn't done by BAA, but by BA.
Which makes the whole thing even more bewildering at times.
"SO lads at heathrow my heart goes out to you but don;t be fooled into thinking that the BAA would do anything about it even if you had the stands to spare !!"
Allocation in both T4 ( and T1) isn't done by BAA, but by BA.
Which makes the whole thing even more bewildering at times.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 499
Likes: 7
From: Back on The Island.
Surely the greatest problem lies with BRITISH Airways ? Why in such an expansive and partly isolated territory is EVERYTHING focused on EGLL (London Heathrow) ? Why not spread the load over Manchester (or anywhere else in the north) Surely people from Birmingham would go north to fly on in order to avoid EGLL , or am I missing something here ? I cannot understand so called management , mumble , mumble , mumble.
That's my six euros' worth .....ARRRRGH.
That's my six euros' worth .....ARRRRGH.
Guest
Posts: n/a
I was involved in a project to look at stand planning/management at LHR a couple of years ago.
Bottom line, there just is not enough physical space to easily cope with the peaks, especially during times of disruption.
Lets not slag off BA, BAA or anyone else.
Try overlaying a map of LAX or DFW onto LHR and see the difference in area.
I rode around the peri track of LAX - over 20 miles!
Everyone at LHR, controllers, pilots, planners and ops etc have my admiration for a job done exceedingly well under very difficult circumstances.
Bottom line, there just is not enough physical space to easily cope with the peaks, especially during times of disruption.
Lets not slag off BA, BAA or anyone else.
Try overlaying a map of LAX or DFW onto LHR and see the difference in area.
I rode around the peri track of LAX - over 20 miles!
Everyone at LHR, controllers, pilots, planners and ops etc have my admiration for a job done exceedingly well under very difficult circumstances.
Last edited by Final 3 Greens; 16th July 2003 at 06:01.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 4,432
Likes: 33
From: LHR/EGLL
I agree, lack of physical space is the main problem, but surely there are people/organisations responsible for that?
BA for scheduling more flights than can reasonably use T4?
BAA for letting them?
Us (ATC) for (usually!) making it work?
BA for scheduling more flights than can reasonably use T4?
BAA for letting them?
Us (ATC) for (usually!) making it work?
