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Spyplane II : Will they never learn?

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Spyplane II : Will they never learn?

Old 20th Jan 2002, 08:16
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Post Spyplane II : Will they never learn?

It’s beyond normal comprehension to even try to understand the thinking of a government that would sell a VIP aircraft ( B767-300 ER ) to another sovereign country for the exclusive use of that country’s president and then bug the aircraft and hope it would not be detected. Bugs in the toilets ( do people talk in toilets ) ; bugs in the Chinese president’s bed (does he talk in his sleep) and bugs in the seat backs ( the give away).
Boeing say they are innocent , Delta Airlines say they are innocent and Dee Howard Aircraft say they are innocent. The CIA had no comment. Does the CIA think it is above the principles that apply to decent behaviour? Of course it does as has been proved time and time again. Childish games played by children or perhaps foolish games played by fools.
If the Chinese do not turn this into another international incident then it will be because they have an agenda . That doesn’t alter the fact that if I were a citizen of the USA I would hang my head in shame.

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Old 20th Jan 2002, 09:11
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Ah the american hater speaks again.

What about the American Embassy in Russia? That had to be bulldozed!

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Old 20th Jan 2002, 09:16
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and how about the incident with the Chinese Mig ramming a US Navy EP-3, holding the crew, and then refusing to give it back, except in pieces?
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Old 20th Jan 2002, 09:21
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Exactly, we should all try and get along and play nice with one another, especially with the Chinese. If you are surprised or outraged you really don't understand how the game is played, again especially with the Chinese.

More than anything it was a poor attempt. If it was the CIA they should be ashamed for poor execution. Seems almost too easy, maybe not CIA? Facts anyone?
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Old 20th Jan 2002, 11:24
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I'm sure the Ozmates would never be involved in such a thing...


Subject: IPS: Spy Scandal Mars Wahid's Planned Australia Visit
EAST TIMOR: Spy Scandal Mars Wahid's Planned Australia Visit By Sonny Inbaraj

04/25/2000 Inter Press Service

DARWIN, Australia, Apr. 25 (IPS) -- A spying incident involving an Australian soldier serving with the United Nations in East Timor has scuttled Indonesian President Abdurrahman Wahid's planned visit to Australia next month.

Foreign Minister Alwi Shihab told a news conference in Jakarta yesterday that Wahid, who was planning to visit Australia in May to repair bilateral ties, may postpone the trip for two months or even cancel it outright.

He said Wahid took into consideration the recent incident involving an Australian soldier who was ordered out of East Timor over a spying operation in Indonesian West Timor which embarrassed Australia and prompted a high-level apology from the United Nations to Indonesia...


Australia drawn into spy scandal

Sydney Morning Herald

Friday, February 25, 2000

By GEOFF KITNEY, Herald Correspondent, in Berlin

Australia is being drawn into a row between the United States and its European allies over claims that an American-controlled Cold War electronic spying network is being used for commercial espionage against European governments and companies.

The French Government claims the network - which includes a ground station in Australia - is being used by the US, Britain and their "Anglo-Saxon" partners to eavesdrop on the Europeans, picking up commercially sensitive information.

A Defence Department spokesman in Canberra said they were aware of the debate but the department did not comment on matters of national security and intelligence...


We do appreciate Australia's significant contributions to U.S. intelligence collection efforts and will continue to enjoy the "Joint Defence Space Research" facilities at Pine Gap for a long time to come.
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Old 20th Jan 2002, 11:48
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This is from the CNN website...

China won't confirm, deny reports of bugged plane

Bugs found from bathroom to bedroom, reports say
January 19, 2002 Posted: 10:29 PM EST (0329 GMT)

BEIJING, China (CNN) -- Chinese analysts and government officials said Saturday they could neither confirm nor deny reports in two Western newspapers that a Boeing jet, delivered to China for use as the presidential plane, was bugged.

The Washington Post and the Financial Times reported Friday that Chinese intelligence officers discovered more than 20 listening devices throughout a new Boeing 767 purchased by China in June 2000 to be President Jiang Zemin's official jet.

The Post, quoting a Chinese source, said 27 devices were found everywhere from the presidential bathroom to the headboard of Jiang's bed.

So far, there has been no U.S. confirmation of the reports. "We never discuss these types of allegations," a White House spokesman said Saturday.

A CIA spokesman said, "On these types of allegations, as a matter of policy we just don't comment."

Jiang was furious at the discovery, the Financial Times reported.

Asked about the reports, Chinese government officials and analysts said they had not heard about a bugged plane. They expressed surprise -- but not too much.

One analyst said it is not uncommon for countries to spy on each other to preserve national interests.

Even if the report were true, it would constitute a "small incident" that would not distract China from pursuing good relations with the United States, a Chinese government official said.

From Boeing to China via Delta Boeing manufactured the 767-300 in Seattle, Washington, selling it to Delta Air Lines as part of a long-standing order. Delta took possession of the plane on June 8, 2000, but the aircraft -- then furnished with only lavatories and overhead bins -- remained in a Boeing storage facility in Washington state, Delta spokesman Tom Donahue said.

A week later, the China Aviation Supplies Import and Export Corp. agreed to buy the plane from Delta, said Donahue. The aircraft was flown to Texas with representatives of the import/export firm on board on July 6, 2000. At that point the airliner's title was transferred to the Chinese company, he said.

Donahue said the plane is now operated by China United, a state-owned airline.

In Texas, "several aircraft maintenance firms" refitted the plane for use as Zeming's personal jet, and Chinese officials oversaw the entire process, the Post reported. After approximately one year of renovations, the plane was flown to China, Boeing spokesman Tom Ryan said in a statement.

Another Boeing spokeswoman Liz Verdie, saying the company had no contact with the plane since CACS took it over, dismissed any alleged involvement in bugging the plane. "Boeing isn't even going to address the listening device rumor," she said.

"We are in the commercial airplane business," said another Boeing official, who asked not to be identified. "We are not in the espionage business."

The devices reportedly found on the plane were said to be highly sophisticated and satellite-operated.

Chinese aviation officials and military officers are accusing the United States of planting the bugs, the Post reported, quoting sources.

After the bugs were discovered, the reports said, 20 Chinese air force officers and two officials from the company that imported the jet were detained.

The Post said Western diplomats and executives first learned of the case in mid-October when Chinese officials with whom they did business failed to appear for meetings. Chinese friends and colleagues told them the officials had been arrested.

-- CNN Beijing Bureau Chief Jaime FlorCruz and CNN White House Correspondent Kelly Wallace contributed to this report.

Those last 2 paragraphs make it sound like some of the Chinese officials involved in procuring the aircraft may have been involved.

(Edited for a spelling error)

[ 20 January 2002: Message edited by: Flight Safety ]</p>
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Old 20th Jan 2002, 12:48
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KIFIS thank the lord your Chinese loving ass is not a citizen of the USA they really don't need the preachy pontificating drivel you spout, but you can go hang your head anyway.
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Old 20th Jan 2002, 13:12
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KIFIS, fortunately for us, you are NOT AN AMERICAN.
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Old 20th Jan 2002, 13:21
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Your rude comments say more about the type of person you are than your profile. I know this is a long shot but would you by any chance know the meaning of the word knavery.


[ 20 January 2002: Message edited by: KIFIS ]</p>
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Old 20th Jan 2002, 17:32
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It is ozmates pontificating with liberal outrage like KFIS that should cause their own countrymen to hang their heads in shame if they are not already doing so in embarrasment. It is typical ignorance in the way governments operate that leads to the whingy, shock horror statements by naive antipodeans like KFIS.

Grow up and start living in the real world. For a sub-intelligent liberal you go on to admit that if you were a US citizen you would hang your head in shame. For what? It is stupid oiks like you that should be ashamed for preaching such drivel on this kind of forum. I suppose your government doesn't have an intelligence department and wouldn't take any opportunity to gather intelligence on other governments. Oh, I forgot, you are an awsralien and you don't need to spy on anyone and no one wants to spy on your nirvana.

Makes me ashamed to claim to be an Australian when we have eejits like KFIS opening their gobs and gushing with indignation at an iffy news story as though the Chinese wouldn't try the same thing.

[ 20 January 2002: Message edited by: Aunty Nellie ]</p>
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