Worlds largest handling agent created
Guest
Posts: n/a
Worlds largest handling agent created
With lufthansa selling its ground handling company Globeground to Penauille Polyservice of France, the owner of Servisair, this now creates the worlds biggest handling agent. As a former employee with one of these agents I would be interested to know which of the two handling companies standards of service you would like to see predominate, the Servisair standard or the Globeground one? Also do you see any positives/negatives coming from this merger?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Servisair not too bad, but some of the handling in Germany is enough to cause instant cardiac arrest.
Pursers Prayer
To all Beancounters on the 16th floor
Please give us back our company ground staff
And deliver us from Handling Agents
For they know not what they do
Explain to them why a paraplegic can NOT walk off the A/C
And the link between pax boarding & meals catered
Tell them WHEN the Captain needs a NOTOC
And that the Loadsheet is NOT optional
Teach them a smattering of English
And the rudiments of Company Procedures
But most of all
Please give us back our company Ground Staff!
------------------
Singularly Simple Person........
Pursers Prayer
To all Beancounters on the 16th floor
Please give us back our company ground staff
And deliver us from Handling Agents
For they know not what they do
Explain to them why a paraplegic can NOT walk off the A/C
And the link between pax boarding & meals catered
Tell them WHEN the Captain needs a NOTOC
And that the Loadsheet is NOT optional
Teach them a smattering of English
And the rudiments of Company Procedures
But most of all
Please give us back our company Ground Staff!
------------------
Singularly Simple Person........
Guest
Posts: n/a
Also "affectionately" known as Circusair...(!)
Mishandled - in my experience of the company at a number of very different stations, there is no such thing as a Servisair "standard". In general, the only shared feature of their stations is the logo. This becomes especially apparent when you compare them with other well-established handling companies - especially in Europe.
Not to say that the staff at a good few of the stations don't work hard and do a very good job - even if it is after a little external 'encouragement'...!
Mishandled - in my experience of the company at a number of very different stations, there is no such thing as a Servisair "standard". In general, the only shared feature of their stations is the logo. This becomes especially apparent when you compare them with other well-established handling companies - especially in Europe.
Not to say that the staff at a good few of the stations don't work hard and do a very good job - even if it is after a little external 'encouragement'...!
Guest
Posts: n/a
it has to be said that all you airline fluffys don't have a clue when it comes to running a business. if you could get your aircraft in on time, stop overbooking, stop throwing your rubbish on the steps, open the doors(even when it is cold) when asked, and a thousand other annoyances, then you would have room to talk. as it is you fly piles of junk which are in the hangar longer than they are in the sky, cant tell the time, lie to your passengers and blame the handling agent for the delays to avoid them looking too closely at the second rate half baked armature airline they have the misfortune to be flying with. it's always the worst airline that complains the loudest as they have the most to hide.
as for the Ogden comment, that is laughable Servisair bought them out at lgw simply because they were so bad, and after seeing menzies Ogden's in Prague that caller simply doesn't know what they are talking about, they were laughable.
lets see the airlines perform half as well then we all might get were we are going more efficiently
as for the Ogden comment, that is laughable Servisair bought them out at lgw simply because they were so bad, and after seeing menzies Ogden's in Prague that caller simply doesn't know what they are talking about, they were laughable.
lets see the airlines perform half as well then we all might get were we are going more efficiently
Guest
Posts: n/a
Gotta agree with tech...again that Servisair do not seem to have a common standard. Their sevice varies between very good at some stations to bl00dy awful in others. That said, at the few stations where the local agent has become GlobeGround, I haven't seen much 'standarising' of the procedures.
Generally I'm not sure I like this trend to the Mega Handling Agent, give me the smaller independent any time, at least you could find somebody at the station to take responsibility.
It'll end in tears, mark my words!!
------------------
I'm not old, I was just born too early
Generally I'm not sure I like this trend to the Mega Handling Agent, give me the smaller independent any time, at least you could find somebody at the station to take responsibility.
It'll end in tears, mark my words!!
------------------
I'm not old, I was just born too early
Guest
Posts: n/a
I have to say that there are three stations at which I've had no problems at all with CircusAir. Those are BRS, BOH and ABZ.
Anywhere else (particularly NCL and STN) they are truly, truly AWFUL.
The problem as I see it is not per se with the people on the ground but with management. They are understaffed, undertrained and undermotivated. The pay is disgraceful and as a result instead of getting and keeping good, competent adult staff, they end up with school-leavers who don't give a duck and don't understand the implications of things they are presented with.
I've been handled a few times in the past by GH - they seemed okay, but this was a while ago - they may have changed since.
As a postscript, WTF is happening with Ambilifts/Wheelchairs @ STN? They can't cope. We had two little old ladies last week waiting over 40 minutes for wheelchairs, which were pre-booked, but ADI couldn't, it seems, handle arriving on stand at the same time as the aircraft. Eventually they turned up 5 minutes after we should have been boarding the outbound pax... And the LOL's were sitting in the aircraft whilst the cabin crew did their security checks, the cleaners cleaned etc....
Anywhere else (particularly NCL and STN) they are truly, truly AWFUL.
The problem as I see it is not per se with the people on the ground but with management. They are understaffed, undertrained and undermotivated. The pay is disgraceful and as a result instead of getting and keeping good, competent adult staff, they end up with school-leavers who don't give a duck and don't understand the implications of things they are presented with.
I've been handled a few times in the past by GH - they seemed okay, but this was a while ago - they may have changed since.
As a postscript, WTF is happening with Ambilifts/Wheelchairs @ STN? They can't cope. We had two little old ladies last week waiting over 40 minutes for wheelchairs, which were pre-booked, but ADI couldn't, it seems, handle arriving on stand at the same time as the aircraft. Eventually they turned up 5 minutes after we should have been boarding the outbound pax... And the LOL's were sitting in the aircraft whilst the cabin crew did their security checks, the cleaners cleaned etc....
Guest
Posts: n/a
im - don't know which airlines you handle, but maybe the guys and gals "running your business" don't have a clue how to tender for decent business and are left with the dregs...! Certainly sounds like it.
Admittedly, aircraft don’t always arrive on time but as we all know this is for a huge variety of reasons (which I’m sure all us ex/customer service types can reel off in our sleep) – a very common one being that another handling agent has let us down at another station and caused a reactionary delay!
As for overbooking, although I can see both sides of the argument here having been on the wrong side of the desk on too many occasions in the past, your comment that “airline fluffys (what’s a fluffy?) don’t have a clue when it comes to running a business” shows your ignorance. As you’re obviously not aware, every flight on every day on most airlines’ networks has a statistical history (the average number of no/go shows etc.) from which the ‘overbooking profile’ is taken. This then enables the airline to maximize profit on any given route using the available historical data. Very good business sense, no? So why do flights always get heavily booked out of my station and all the pax turn up… I hear you cry..? If the correct procedures are followed and the handling agent responsible feeds this (essential) information back to the relevant airline’s capacity or revenue management department as set out in (nearly all) airline procedures manuals via telex or DCS handback, the ‘overbooking profile’ for that particular flight/station is amended to try and prevent, wherever possible, a repeated ‘denied boarding’ situation which is obviously bad PR for the airline and also expensive. Airlines don't want this situation to arise any more than handling agents and in the ‘ideal world’ (including pro-active handling agents [!]), of course it wouldn’t – but come on, this is aviation…!
If handling agents stopped throwing our rubbish back in the hold lose to ruin passengers’ baggage, stopped opening the aircraft’s doors (even when it is cold) and blowing emergency chutes, and a thousand other annoyances, then you would have room to talk….!
Obviously, I can only speak for the airline for which I currently work, but as it stands our fleet has average age of about 2 years, we fly short haul so the aircraft do spend longer either on the ramp (usually waiting for a loadsheet!) or in the hangar than in the sky and we find that we encounter most ‘mythical time experiences’ when dealing with a handling agent – we have just the 1 clock...!
We always aim to tell the passengers exactly what is happening as accurately as possible as soon as possible in the event of disruption, as they WILL find out in the end and we WILL have to deal with many of them long after you have gone off shift and they’ve left your station…!
Where a delay is incurred and, for example, the flight crew are to blame, we will always follow this up with the crew and pass the information to the handling agent where appropriate. We certainly recognise that airlines, as handling agents, are far from perfect.
As for; “it’s always the worst airline that complains the loudest as they have the most to hide” is concerned, in my experience it is beyond doubt the most pro-active and usually best airline on a station that always follows things up as they have the most to lose from adverse handling which may well lower their usual high standard for regular travelers and consequently impact on the business. Remember that the airlines have the benefit of looking around their network and comparing handling agents and suppliers very closely – we see the ‘bigger picture’, not just 1 station day in day out - and many of us come from a handling background…!
One final question concerning your business sense….. “Servisair bought them out at LGW simply because they were so bad”… what kind of reason is this to purchase a company? Are you sure…!?
Obviously many common gripes coming out here between handling agents and airlines, but always remember who pays your wages……!
Let the ranting begin………..!
TA
Admittedly, aircraft don’t always arrive on time but as we all know this is for a huge variety of reasons (which I’m sure all us ex/customer service types can reel off in our sleep) – a very common one being that another handling agent has let us down at another station and caused a reactionary delay!
As for overbooking, although I can see both sides of the argument here having been on the wrong side of the desk on too many occasions in the past, your comment that “airline fluffys (what’s a fluffy?) don’t have a clue when it comes to running a business” shows your ignorance. As you’re obviously not aware, every flight on every day on most airlines’ networks has a statistical history (the average number of no/go shows etc.) from which the ‘overbooking profile’ is taken. This then enables the airline to maximize profit on any given route using the available historical data. Very good business sense, no? So why do flights always get heavily booked out of my station and all the pax turn up… I hear you cry..? If the correct procedures are followed and the handling agent responsible feeds this (essential) information back to the relevant airline’s capacity or revenue management department as set out in (nearly all) airline procedures manuals via telex or DCS handback, the ‘overbooking profile’ for that particular flight/station is amended to try and prevent, wherever possible, a repeated ‘denied boarding’ situation which is obviously bad PR for the airline and also expensive. Airlines don't want this situation to arise any more than handling agents and in the ‘ideal world’ (including pro-active handling agents [!]), of course it wouldn’t – but come on, this is aviation…!
If handling agents stopped throwing our rubbish back in the hold lose to ruin passengers’ baggage, stopped opening the aircraft’s doors (even when it is cold) and blowing emergency chutes, and a thousand other annoyances, then you would have room to talk….!
Obviously, I can only speak for the airline for which I currently work, but as it stands our fleet has average age of about 2 years, we fly short haul so the aircraft do spend longer either on the ramp (usually waiting for a loadsheet!) or in the hangar than in the sky and we find that we encounter most ‘mythical time experiences’ when dealing with a handling agent – we have just the 1 clock...!
We always aim to tell the passengers exactly what is happening as accurately as possible as soon as possible in the event of disruption, as they WILL find out in the end and we WILL have to deal with many of them long after you have gone off shift and they’ve left your station…!
Where a delay is incurred and, for example, the flight crew are to blame, we will always follow this up with the crew and pass the information to the handling agent where appropriate. We certainly recognise that airlines, as handling agents, are far from perfect.
As for; “it’s always the worst airline that complains the loudest as they have the most to hide” is concerned, in my experience it is beyond doubt the most pro-active and usually best airline on a station that always follows things up as they have the most to lose from adverse handling which may well lower their usual high standard for regular travelers and consequently impact on the business. Remember that the airlines have the benefit of looking around their network and comparing handling agents and suppliers very closely – we see the ‘bigger picture’, not just 1 station day in day out - and many of us come from a handling background…!
One final question concerning your business sense….. “Servisair bought them out at LGW simply because they were so bad”… what kind of reason is this to purchase a company? Are you sure…!?
Obviously many common gripes coming out here between handling agents and airlines, but always remember who pays your wages……!
Let the ranting begin………..!
TA
Guest
Posts: n/a
HugMonster,
Have only had dealings with BOH of those three and have to agree that I couldn't really fault them. Friendly helpful staff and, it would at least appear, good local management. They're far from all bad, just consistently inconsistent...!?
TA
Have only had dealings with BOH of those three and have to agree that I couldn't really fault them. Friendly helpful staff and, it would at least appear, good local management. They're far from all bad, just consistently inconsistent...!?
TA
Guest
Posts: n/a
...need to get those smiley/grinning/grimacing things sorted...
EDI has also been fine in my experience - don't want to make mention of the lesser stations (in my opinion)for fear of offending the few good staff which they generally all offer. As I've said, not all bad by any means, but highly inconsistent.
TA
EDI has also been fine in my experience - don't want to make mention of the lesser stations (in my opinion)for fear of offending the few good staff which they generally all offer. As I've said, not all bad by any means, but highly inconsistent.
TA
Guest
Posts: n/a
Ok…hit a nerve?!
Lets begin.
The point im making is this, it’s so easy to sit back and blame the handling agent, especially one so big, I expect your one of those they types that hate Microsoft but are using windows etc etc.
What you fail to grasp is the behind the scenes work that has to be performed just to turn a buck, the handling agents handle more than one airline at a time, they are not just wholly dedicated to yours. Your delayed inbound was probably caused by an earlier handling agent trying to work around another airlines poor planning, and low quality aircraft being in the hangar.
They cannot lay on enough staff to cover all eventualities the industry throws at them. The best they can do is plan in some slippage, known from past experience and man up accordingly.
The equation is not as simple as yours.
1 aircraft = 1 crew
for handling agents it is something like this
1 aircraft = 1 inbound/outbound team 1 pushback team 1 load controller 1 cleaning team and so it goes on.
All of who have many aircraft in one day to handle, not just one.
These people you hold in such contempt keep you safe in the skies, it’s them that spot damage, leaks, and other aircraft problems you would never know about unless it was too late, they load your aircraft to the highest standards, if you only knew what went on behind the coffee jug in the cabin you might understand a little better just why you are delayed. Do you really believe they are doing it on purpose, do you really believe that if they could get better quality staff they wouldn’t. In some areas of low unemployment (LGW) it is almost impossible to find them.
The Ogden’s buy out, let me explain.
They are a very large company as you know, they came to LGW in the hope to conquer the world, well let me tell you they were a shambles, they didn’t pay their staff they couldn’t even afford to uniform them in the end, this was all instigated by you airlines and your great business sense, for cheaper handling, however it back fired. It was cheaper but, ‘buy cheap buy twice’, that’s right, you were stung by bad QUALITY. In order to stop the rot the only alternative to carry on at LGW was to buy the cancer then kill it with all it’s bad ways.
But you don’t learn do you…..now we have British Midland, Jesus!! when will you understand, oh and guess what, that’s right, the other handling agent at LGW has ……..bought them out. (AVIANCE)
Stanstead ….mmmmm I agree.
The overbooking is now well understood, thanks, however when it comes time to offload the passengers bags. Guess what. That’s right it causes a delay, no doubt the handling agents fault.
Ok im getting bored hearing my own keys.
cheerio
Lets begin.
The point im making is this, it’s so easy to sit back and blame the handling agent, especially one so big, I expect your one of those they types that hate Microsoft but are using windows etc etc.
What you fail to grasp is the behind the scenes work that has to be performed just to turn a buck, the handling agents handle more than one airline at a time, they are not just wholly dedicated to yours. Your delayed inbound was probably caused by an earlier handling agent trying to work around another airlines poor planning, and low quality aircraft being in the hangar.
They cannot lay on enough staff to cover all eventualities the industry throws at them. The best they can do is plan in some slippage, known from past experience and man up accordingly.
The equation is not as simple as yours.
1 aircraft = 1 crew
for handling agents it is something like this
1 aircraft = 1 inbound/outbound team 1 pushback team 1 load controller 1 cleaning team and so it goes on.
All of who have many aircraft in one day to handle, not just one.
These people you hold in such contempt keep you safe in the skies, it’s them that spot damage, leaks, and other aircraft problems you would never know about unless it was too late, they load your aircraft to the highest standards, if you only knew what went on behind the coffee jug in the cabin you might understand a little better just why you are delayed. Do you really believe they are doing it on purpose, do you really believe that if they could get better quality staff they wouldn’t. In some areas of low unemployment (LGW) it is almost impossible to find them.
The Ogden’s buy out, let me explain.
They are a very large company as you know, they came to LGW in the hope to conquer the world, well let me tell you they were a shambles, they didn’t pay their staff they couldn’t even afford to uniform them in the end, this was all instigated by you airlines and your great business sense, for cheaper handling, however it back fired. It was cheaper but, ‘buy cheap buy twice’, that’s right, you were stung by bad QUALITY. In order to stop the rot the only alternative to carry on at LGW was to buy the cancer then kill it with all it’s bad ways.
But you don’t learn do you…..now we have British Midland, Jesus!! when will you understand, oh and guess what, that’s right, the other handling agent at LGW has ……..bought them out. (AVIANCE)
Stanstead ….mmmmm I agree.
The overbooking is now well understood, thanks, however when it comes time to offload the passengers bags. Guess what. That’s right it causes a delay, no doubt the handling agents fault.
Ok im getting bored hearing my own keys.
cheerio
Guest
Posts: n/a
I have to agree with HugMonster. Servisair in NCL are quite the most disorganised untrained rabble that I have ever had the misfortune to deal with in a very long aviation career.
Their employees have "assisted" a drunk passenger to the aircraft steps, only to have said drunk pass out on boarding & as for their ETOPS dispatch service......well forget it,arrive early and do your own!
Speak as you find...MAN & LGW FIRST CLASS, just avoid NCL.
Their employees have "assisted" a drunk passenger to the aircraft steps, only to have said drunk pass out on boarding & as for their ETOPS dispatch service......well forget it,arrive early and do your own!
Speak as you find...MAN & LGW FIRST CLASS, just avoid NCL.
Guest
Posts: n/a
im,
Yes I’m using Windows – Microsoft’s fine with me..!
I know life’s not always peachy for handling agents – I’ve worked for a handling agent in all areas (including cargo) for 6 years of my career and for an airline only 2. Having been on the receiving end of such complaints from airlines, I quickly learned the importance of a good dispatch card and daily station log!
I’m therefore already aware of the other issues you mention relating to handling agents, but would add that there is quite a trend developing in some of the larger handling companies for the development of ‘dedicated teams’ for major airline customers. This has many benefits, but naturally also disadvantages. I’m sure that the airline benefits from this more than the handling agent! Must make rostering around sickness and leave a little difficult – and on that subject I concede that staffing issues must be a constant struggle at some stations – but it has to be said that some stations manage it much better then others.
The 1 aircraft = 1 crew issue isn’t correct. Yes at some outstations (I suspect yours) where the operating crew arrive, walk around the a/c, supervise fuelling and sign the loadsheet - but at many stations there are crew changes, multi-sector crews who are nearly ‘out of hours’ owing to earlier operational problems ‘invisible’ at your station, daily maintenance issues, return catering requirements, flight operations literature requirements and several more. I don’t know a great deal about crewing, but really admire the folks who are involved in it daily.
The comment you have made that I hold handling agent staff “in contempt” is ludicrous. Everybody working in aviation is responsible for safety whatever their area and handling staff of all kinds play a vital role in this – and I generally find take great pride in doing so. I agree that high quality staff in some areas in particular are very difficult to come by - airlines want to keep handling costs down as much as handling agents want to charge high rates. I know that this can make things difficult, but airlines are currently facing many issues on cost such as the rapidly increasing cost of Jet A1.
Interesting info about the Ogden’s buyout – although I don’t think it’s fair to put the entire blame on the airlines for them turning out the way they did – this is a business after all.
I have daily experience of British Midland and am aware of the Aviance thing currently going on – at this rate it won’t be long until there are only 2 or 3 handling outfits in Europe! Finally, if the gate staff close the gate on time and initiate the search for bags immediately it is needed, there should be no reason to take a delay – this is probably a standard part of handling on at least 20% of the departures from LGW every day...!? (where do all those passengers disappear to) Pro-active handling agents generally seem to have no problem with this on our network.
...also bored with the sound of my keys
Rgds,
TA
Yes I’m using Windows – Microsoft’s fine with me..!
I know life’s not always peachy for handling agents – I’ve worked for a handling agent in all areas (including cargo) for 6 years of my career and for an airline only 2. Having been on the receiving end of such complaints from airlines, I quickly learned the importance of a good dispatch card and daily station log!
I’m therefore already aware of the other issues you mention relating to handling agents, but would add that there is quite a trend developing in some of the larger handling companies for the development of ‘dedicated teams’ for major airline customers. This has many benefits, but naturally also disadvantages. I’m sure that the airline benefits from this more than the handling agent! Must make rostering around sickness and leave a little difficult – and on that subject I concede that staffing issues must be a constant struggle at some stations – but it has to be said that some stations manage it much better then others.
The 1 aircraft = 1 crew issue isn’t correct. Yes at some outstations (I suspect yours) where the operating crew arrive, walk around the a/c, supervise fuelling and sign the loadsheet - but at many stations there are crew changes, multi-sector crews who are nearly ‘out of hours’ owing to earlier operational problems ‘invisible’ at your station, daily maintenance issues, return catering requirements, flight operations literature requirements and several more. I don’t know a great deal about crewing, but really admire the folks who are involved in it daily.
The comment you have made that I hold handling agent staff “in contempt” is ludicrous. Everybody working in aviation is responsible for safety whatever their area and handling staff of all kinds play a vital role in this – and I generally find take great pride in doing so. I agree that high quality staff in some areas in particular are very difficult to come by - airlines want to keep handling costs down as much as handling agents want to charge high rates. I know that this can make things difficult, but airlines are currently facing many issues on cost such as the rapidly increasing cost of Jet A1.
Interesting info about the Ogden’s buyout – although I don’t think it’s fair to put the entire blame on the airlines for them turning out the way they did – this is a business after all.
I have daily experience of British Midland and am aware of the Aviance thing currently going on – at this rate it won’t be long until there are only 2 or 3 handling outfits in Europe! Finally, if the gate staff close the gate on time and initiate the search for bags immediately it is needed, there should be no reason to take a delay – this is probably a standard part of handling on at least 20% of the departures from LGW every day...!? (where do all those passengers disappear to) Pro-active handling agents generally seem to have no problem with this on our network.
...also bored with the sound of my keys
Rgds,
TA