Air India Pilots refuse to operate flights due to SARS
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Sinner
No I havent seen the circular. But two questions.
1, Is a ten day quaurantine realistic with AI operating as many flights athey do to these regions?
2, Since you seem to have some idea about the sitation in AI, do you honestly believe , looking into the history of their labour disputes over the last 30 years, that health considerations is their only motive?
Anyway all I can hope for is that government will make use of this oportunity to throw open the Indian skies to foreign air carriers/private airlines like they did for domestic aviation some years back to the benefit of both Indian Airlines as well as the domestic passengers.
Hidden agenda no? But then I still dont know the protective measures as I said earlier wich all other airlines are doing to protect their employers from SARS which AI is apparently failing to do to their own pilots!
And no, before sone one accuses me, I am not an AI management stooge but just someone who is aware of things happening in the country and fed up! It all fashionable to blast the "lousy inefficient managements" but sometimes the employees never give them a chance!
No I havent seen the circular. But two questions.
1, Is a ten day quaurantine realistic with AI operating as many flights athey do to these regions?
2, Since you seem to have some idea about the sitation in AI, do you honestly believe , looking into the history of their labour disputes over the last 30 years, that health considerations is their only motive?
Anyway all I can hope for is that government will make use of this oportunity to throw open the Indian skies to foreign air carriers/private airlines like they did for domestic aviation some years back to the benefit of both Indian Airlines as well as the domestic passengers.
Hidden agenda no? But then I still dont know the protective measures as I said earlier wich all other airlines are doing to protect their employers from SARS which AI is apparently failing to do to their own pilots!
And no, before sone one accuses me, I am not an AI management stooge but just someone who is aware of things happening in the country and fed up! It all fashionable to blast the "lousy inefficient managements" but sometimes the employees never give them a chance!
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About 10 days back i travelled on airindia from singapore to new delhi . tere were only 40-50 of us passengers on board . Chatting with the cabin crew i was shocked to learn that they have been given no instructions etc by the management on handling passengers or crew affected with the SARS virus . All they have is your basic cloth face mask & no gloves . These also sometimes or not enough for all the crew members on board or at times not available at all . the cabin crew can do nothing but send written reports to the management who do nothing or at best do very little about it . the cabin crew can't refuse flights as they will face the wrath of the management who can suspend them or keep them off the roster for some time . I didn't get a chance to chat with the pilots as passengers are not alowed into the cockpit for security reasons .
Landing into Delhi at around 6pm IST we passengers were greeted at the immigration hall with a huge sign saying "SARS control counter" . in this counter were 4 uniformed men wearing face masks , fast asleep . This is the way the airport authorities are dealing with the SARS virus in most indian airports . No one seems to be taking the virus seriously . How many more deaths do we need before the authorities will finally wake up n realise that something has to be about this ?????
Landing into Delhi at around 6pm IST we passengers were greeted at the immigration hall with a huge sign saying "SARS control counter" . in this counter were 4 uniformed men wearing face masks , fast asleep . This is the way the airport authorities are dealing with the SARS virus in most indian airports . No one seems to be taking the virus seriously . How many more deaths do we need before the authorities will finally wake up n realise that something has to be about this ?????
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What is an Executive Pilot?
Hi:
In this thread the term executive pilot comes up often. Am curious
- what is an executive pilot?
- is this common amonst all airlines?
- how do the duties of an executive pilot differ than that of
a 'regular' line pilot
- how many hours do executive pilots get to fly
- how does one become an executive pilot - is it seniority or is
there some other process
In this thread the term executive pilot comes up often. Am curious
- what is an executive pilot?
- is this common amonst all airlines?
- how do the duties of an executive pilot differ than that of
a 'regular' line pilot
- how many hours do executive pilots get to fly
- how does one become an executive pilot - is it seniority or is
there some other process
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Youir concerns of SARS monotiring based on your personal experience is understable. But again dont jump into conclusions it is ineffective just because of one personal experience at the DEL airports.
I find it difficult to beleive the sole motive of AI pilots is their concern for the safety , mainly because of their dubious background in any labour relations dispute in the past too and as usual even in this facts are coming out as seen from this post below which point to the fact.
www. ndtv.com
********
Monday, April 28, 2003 (New Delhi):
As the fight between the government and Air India pilots takes a turn for the worse, officials at the Civil Aviation Ministry have armed themselves with a dossier, which they claim gives the real picture behind the ugly controversy.
Dubbed as the 'unofficial truth' behind the SARS controversy, the report begins by pointing out the absurdity that governs the decision of AI pilots to refuse to fly not just to SARS affected countries but also to Gulf countries.
Hard facts
The report says only three airlines --- Continental Airlines, Air Mauritius and Turkish Airlines have so far discontinued services to Hong Kong and Singapore. But they have done so not due to the fear of SARS but merely due to the low load factor.
Third and perhaps the most controversial clause is the accusation that the Indian Pilots Guild (IPG) is using the SARS controversy to extract higher pay packets and sops for themselves.
Extra remuneration!
According to the government, Air India pilots who take home as much as Rs 5 lakh per month are demanding higher pay packets.
They are even demanding extra remuneration of Rs 50,000 a month, to train on the new CAT 3 -- a landing system that helps flights land in zero visibility.
The government also claims that the new committee of the IPG, who took over in January this year, has interfered with the Air India management on at least 14 occasions in the past four months. And in this latest controversy surrounding SARS, the pilots have finally got something substantial to blackmail the management with.
The IPG however has dismissed the charges as baseless.
And as both sides threatening to slug it out in court, the sympathies clearly lie with the thousands of hapless passengers who have been held hostage to the needless controversy.
********
Also I find hard to believe that if things are so bad regarding SARS in India, the entire medical community is keeping quiet, in a country where freedom of speech and expression spills s out literally to the streets without much provocation!
Cheers
Youir concerns of SARS monotiring based on your personal experience is understable. But again dont jump into conclusions it is ineffective just because of one personal experience at the DEL airports.
I find it difficult to beleive the sole motive of AI pilots is their concern for the safety , mainly because of their dubious background in any labour relations dispute in the past too and as usual even in this facts are coming out as seen from this post below which point to the fact.
www. ndtv.com
********
Monday, April 28, 2003 (New Delhi):
As the fight between the government and Air India pilots takes a turn for the worse, officials at the Civil Aviation Ministry have armed themselves with a dossier, which they claim gives the real picture behind the ugly controversy.
Dubbed as the 'unofficial truth' behind the SARS controversy, the report begins by pointing out the absurdity that governs the decision of AI pilots to refuse to fly not just to SARS affected countries but also to Gulf countries.
Hard facts
The report says only three airlines --- Continental Airlines, Air Mauritius and Turkish Airlines have so far discontinued services to Hong Kong and Singapore. But they have done so not due to the fear of SARS but merely due to the low load factor.
Third and perhaps the most controversial clause is the accusation that the Indian Pilots Guild (IPG) is using the SARS controversy to extract higher pay packets and sops for themselves.
Extra remuneration!
According to the government, Air India pilots who take home as much as Rs 5 lakh per month are demanding higher pay packets.
They are even demanding extra remuneration of Rs 50,000 a month, to train on the new CAT 3 -- a landing system that helps flights land in zero visibility.
The government also claims that the new committee of the IPG, who took over in January this year, has interfered with the Air India management on at least 14 occasions in the past four months. And in this latest controversy surrounding SARS, the pilots have finally got something substantial to blackmail the management with.
The IPG however has dismissed the charges as baseless.
And as both sides threatening to slug it out in court, the sympathies clearly lie with the thousands of hapless passengers who have been held hostage to the needless controversy.
********
Also I find hard to believe that if things are so bad regarding SARS in India, the entire medical community is keeping quiet, in a country where freedom of speech and expression spills s out literally to the streets without much provocation!
Cheers
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mutt and tiba I agree with most of what you have said.
SARS has killed a few hundred people. A lot less than malaria....but then malaria is an "understood" disease and there are several cures available.
SARS may or may not be as bad as malaria...yet to be seen.
(Just as an observation, this disease seems to be keeping the spotlight off the fact that no weapons of mass destruction have been found in Iraq.)
So why can't pilot protect themselves from a disease that kills or destroys a good part ones lungs??
If the the AI pilots feel they may be affected and killed by SARS, then I feel they have all the right to do what they have to do!
Thay aren't trying to topple the airline , just protecting themselves....surely nothing wrong with that.
I'm sure no intelligent person wants to be killed by a virus that one knows about and does nothing about it.
SARS has killed a few hundred people. A lot less than malaria....but then malaria is an "understood" disease and there are several cures available.
SARS may or may not be as bad as malaria...yet to be seen.
(Just as an observation, this disease seems to be keeping the spotlight off the fact that no weapons of mass destruction have been found in Iraq.)
So why can't pilot protect themselves from a disease that kills or destroys a good part ones lungs??
If the the AI pilots feel they may be affected and killed by SARS, then I feel they have all the right to do what they have to do!
Thay aren't trying to topple the airline , just protecting themselves....surely nothing wrong with that.
I'm sure no intelligent person wants to be killed by a virus that one knows about and does nothing about it.
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I experienced the same but lesser degree at other airports such as bombay & Cochin . All we were required to do was fill up & submit a form stating that we were not suffering from any fever , cold etc . There was no screening of passengers whatsoever . Now there could be so many of us who are unknowingly carrying the virus . There has to be a better way of doing this .
Its so easy to quote articles from the newspaper , but how much do you really know from other sources ?? Have you spoken to any of the pilots ? I'm sure they deserve to be heard too . But i guess what they say is true- no matter what happens its always the pilots fault !! I happened to meet a pilot who stays in my area & she said that most if not all are worried about bringing the virus home & infecting their children , husbands , wives or other members of the family . So little is know about the virus . Its easy for us to sit in our offices or homes & pass judgement , but what if we had to travel to countries affected with the virus not once but on a regular basis , how easy would that be ??
Yes maybe i'm jumping to conclusions but thats due to what i have experienced , not what i only read in the newspapers . Any journalist would tell you that what ever you read in the papers should be taken with a grain of salt esp if it concerns the government & Air India is a government organisation . Talking about the pilots action being suspect due to their dubious background etc , then what can we say about our government ?
One more thing rsoman ---- how long did it take the government & the medical community to realise that we do have an aids epidemic in this country ?????
Its so easy to quote articles from the newspaper , but how much do you really know from other sources ?? Have you spoken to any of the pilots ? I'm sure they deserve to be heard too . But i guess what they say is true- no matter what happens its always the pilots fault !! I happened to meet a pilot who stays in my area & she said that most if not all are worried about bringing the virus home & infecting their children , husbands , wives or other members of the family . So little is know about the virus . Its easy for us to sit in our offices or homes & pass judgement , but what if we had to travel to countries affected with the virus not once but on a regular basis , how easy would that be ??
Yes maybe i'm jumping to conclusions but thats due to what i have experienced , not what i only read in the newspapers . Any journalist would tell you that what ever you read in the papers should be taken with a grain of salt esp if it concerns the government & Air India is a government organisation . Talking about the pilots action being suspect due to their dubious background etc , then what can we say about our government ?
One more thing rsoman ---- how long did it take the government & the medical community to realise that we do have an aids epidemic in this country ?????
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While not a pilot myself, my views most certainly are NOT just based on newspaper reports alone. It is as from years of experience being involved in this industry in India having a neutral view of things of what is happening. I am also in a much better postion to comment on the medical side of things than you realise.
Let me again state that these same concerns if true should have brought along a similar response from the other government airline involved here, the pilots again heavily unionised, Indian Airlines with their network also having no less than 25 weekly flights to Singapore and 15 flights to Bangkok as well as a daily flight to KUL. Infact this is same or more than the Air India flights to the same destination? Why are they remaining silent or the very least not come out in support of their bretheren in Air India?
Also let me make it very clear that neither do I belong to the government or Air India nor have any vested interest. But there are limits to which the Indian fare paying passenger should be taken for a ride by a few pilots holding them to ransom!.
Also let me ask one more question? To the best of my knowlege, if the screening in Indian airports is so lousy, why is that no foreign airline has stopped services or even stopped their layovers for their crew in Indian cities?Whether it is Delhi or Bombay or Cochin?or Trivandrum?
And let me tell you , while everybody tells about protection being a fundamental right etc etc, nobody has come up here as far as I can see the extra protective measures other airlines are taking which Air India is not including the Air India pilot Union, IPG? Why not? It only helps their position right? I am sure the Indian media will not have any hesitation in publishing the IPGs views as well (the days of Emergency and Presse Censorship has long past gone as you are aware!). Also do you think, how many countries labour laws will just tolerate pilots just walking away from their flights with no apparent legal notice leaving passengers stranded on their whims and fancies!
Yes in India we can get away with anything and we can blame the management and government for everything!
While not a pilot myself, my views most certainly are NOT just based on newspaper reports alone. It is as from years of experience being involved in this industry in India having a neutral view of things of what is happening. I am also in a much better postion to comment on the medical side of things than you realise.
Let me again state that these same concerns if true should have brought along a similar response from the other government airline involved here, the pilots again heavily unionised, Indian Airlines with their network also having no less than 25 weekly flights to Singapore and 15 flights to Bangkok as well as a daily flight to KUL. Infact this is same or more than the Air India flights to the same destination? Why are they remaining silent or the very least not come out in support of their bretheren in Air India?
Also let me make it very clear that neither do I belong to the government or Air India nor have any vested interest. But there are limits to which the Indian fare paying passenger should be taken for a ride by a few pilots holding them to ransom!.
Also let me ask one more question? To the best of my knowlege, if the screening in Indian airports is so lousy, why is that no foreign airline has stopped services or even stopped their layovers for their crew in Indian cities?Whether it is Delhi or Bombay or Cochin?or Trivandrum?
And let me tell you , while everybody tells about protection being a fundamental right etc etc, nobody has come up here as far as I can see the extra protective measures other airlines are taking which Air India is not including the Air India pilot Union, IPG? Why not? It only helps their position right? I am sure the Indian media will not have any hesitation in publishing the IPGs views as well (the days of Emergency and Presse Censorship has long past gone as you are aware!). Also do you think, how many countries labour laws will just tolerate pilots just walking away from their flights with no apparent legal notice leaving passengers stranded on their whims and fancies!
Yes in India we can get away with anything and we can blame the management and government for everything!
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Shon7
Executive pilots are those pilots which are employed by the airline and after a certain period of time are asked to be a part of the management. If they choose to do so then they give up their right to be a part of any union. I really have no idea if it is common to other airlines. Yes they are different from regular pilots in their pay package and other perks. Am uncertain about the hours but in case of a crisis like the one in Air India right now, i believe and this has been reported in the news media that their hours has been extended ie their legality has been relaxed to cover additional 2 hours. How does one become one? As far as i am aware you cannot apply to be one but are asked by the management to join.
Banzaviator
Am glad that at least someone here understands a fraction of what i am trying to express.............thanks
Rsoman
First of all my apologies at being unavailable in the past couple of days........this thread seems to get more and more interesting.......and the first question I would like to pose to you is please clarify as to how you think you are in a better position to comment since this would add some credibility to what you are saying. I fail to understand the aggression with which you are attacking the the actions of the IPG and solely laying the blame of this crisis on the pilots.........I for one assumed better perspective from you.............and as to why no other airline has stopped thier flights or layovers in the various cities of India...........well its only a matter of time my friend........the sars toll in this country is climbing and fatalities are only just around the corner. I am begining to find some serious flaws in your one sided observation of this. Since you did start this thread am assuming that you were looking for some healthy debates here but inspite of some highly varied inputs here you have chosen to be singularly closed minded which leads me to believe that you are definitely harbouring some personal grudges here. You keep harping on about other airlines in India specifically Indian airlines which so far according to you have not felt the need to address this issue. So why does Air India? Well why not Air India!!!!! In your case its not a question of blaming the management or the government but ONLY the pilots. Why?
Executive pilots are those pilots which are employed by the airline and after a certain period of time are asked to be a part of the management. If they choose to do so then they give up their right to be a part of any union. I really have no idea if it is common to other airlines. Yes they are different from regular pilots in their pay package and other perks. Am uncertain about the hours but in case of a crisis like the one in Air India right now, i believe and this has been reported in the news media that their hours has been extended ie their legality has been relaxed to cover additional 2 hours. How does one become one? As far as i am aware you cannot apply to be one but are asked by the management to join.
Banzaviator
Am glad that at least someone here understands a fraction of what i am trying to express.............thanks
Rsoman
First of all my apologies at being unavailable in the past couple of days........this thread seems to get more and more interesting.......and the first question I would like to pose to you is please clarify as to how you think you are in a better position to comment since this would add some credibility to what you are saying. I fail to understand the aggression with which you are attacking the the actions of the IPG and solely laying the blame of this crisis on the pilots.........I for one assumed better perspective from you.............and as to why no other airline has stopped thier flights or layovers in the various cities of India...........well its only a matter of time my friend........the sars toll in this country is climbing and fatalities are only just around the corner. I am begining to find some serious flaws in your one sided observation of this. Since you did start this thread am assuming that you were looking for some healthy debates here but inspite of some highly varied inputs here you have chosen to be singularly closed minded which leads me to believe that you are definitely harbouring some personal grudges here. You keep harping on about other airlines in India specifically Indian airlines which so far according to you have not felt the need to address this issue. So why does Air India? Well why not Air India!!!!! In your case its not a question of blaming the management or the government but ONLY the pilots. Why?
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Hi Rsoman with your good knowlwdge about the industry how about writing about the Custom and immigration guys , sure every one suffers from them too. As for AI there is just no hope, Country with a huge population and strategic location, flying to from europe, australia and the far east could serve as the best major hub and so much to offer in the country itself and yet what we have is old aging approx 30 aircrafts with no decent inflight sevice, not to mention the sad state of the airports..... sorry its a shame and i see no reason why thing cant be done.
The mind set has to change......... ??
The mind set has to change......... ??
Last edited by Pushpak; 29th Apr 2003 at 13:50.
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Rsoman
RIYADH, 16 April 2003 — Saudi Arabian Airlines has indefinitely suspended flights to Singapore over fears of the spread of the deadly Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) virus, a spokesman said yesterday.
“Saudia has suspended its flights to Singapore because of SARS as of yesterday. The suspension will continue until the World Health Organization (WHO) declares Singapore free of the disease,” the spokesman said. Saudia operates two flights weekly from Jeddah to Singapore.
They also issued facemasks to all passengers to other Asian destinations; this was later revised to just for the crew on arrival. Note they don’t fly to China, Hong Kong or Vietnam. I also believe that the Saudis banned Singapore Airlines flights to the Kingdom.
As for the IPG, well it looks as if the management is getting some government support.
NEW DELHI, 29 April 2003 — The Indian government has initiated a process in consultation with the Labor Ministry for declaring the undeclared strike by Indian Pilots Guild(IPG) as “illegal” and take necessary action against its members, Minister for Civil Aviation Syed Shahnawaz Hussain told Lok Sabha today. Etc etc etc…. http://www.arabnews.com/Article.asp?ID=25688
Mutt.
nobody has come up here as far as I can see the extra protective measures other airlines are taking which Air India is not including the Air India pilot Union, IPG? Why not?
“Saudia has suspended its flights to Singapore because of SARS as of yesterday. The suspension will continue until the World Health Organization (WHO) declares Singapore free of the disease,” the spokesman said. Saudia operates two flights weekly from Jeddah to Singapore.
They also issued facemasks to all passengers to other Asian destinations; this was later revised to just for the crew on arrival. Note they don’t fly to China, Hong Kong or Vietnam. I also believe that the Saudis banned Singapore Airlines flights to the Kingdom.
As for the IPG, well it looks as if the management is getting some government support.
NEW DELHI, 29 April 2003 — The Indian government has initiated a process in consultation with the Labor Ministry for declaring the undeclared strike by Indian Pilots Guild(IPG) as “illegal” and take necessary action against its members, Minister for Civil Aviation Syed Shahnawaz Hussain told Lok Sabha today. Etc etc etc…. http://www.arabnews.com/Article.asp?ID=25688
Mutt.
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IA pilots support AI strike but will not join
Press Trust of India
New Delhi, April 28: Pilots of the Indian Airlines on Monday came out in support of the agitating Air India pilots but would not go on a strike themselves.
The Indian Commercial Pilots Association (ICPA), the association of IA pilots, said they support the AI strike as a measure of solidarity but have decided not to resort to any strike, sources said.
ICPA President V K Bhalla had earlier stated that the association was in touch with the top management of IA regarding operations and have decided to fly to Singapore and not stay there for the night. The management agreed to the proposal, he had said.
rsoman , for your info , Indian Airlines don't layover in singapore . They have an hour halt & then carry on to bangkok for a layover . bangkok & K'Lumpur are not on the WHO's warning list of countries/cities affected with the virus. Air Indias crew were expected to layover in singapore for 1 day or more if a Kuala lumpur or jakarta shuttle was in their pattern . Its only now , after the ipg had given out the directive that the management pilots operate to Singapore from Madra as a round trip .
As for the days of Emergency and Press Censorship being long past gone , i fully aware . But exactly how free are we & to what extend can we come out in the papers & expose the government or other influential people about their various dealings & corruption charges ???? This anyway is side stepping the main topic .
That is true , but at the same time how often is the management or government made account able for all its actions & decisions ????
Press Trust of India
New Delhi, April 28: Pilots of the Indian Airlines on Monday came out in support of the agitating Air India pilots but would not go on a strike themselves.
The Indian Commercial Pilots Association (ICPA), the association of IA pilots, said they support the AI strike as a measure of solidarity but have decided not to resort to any strike, sources said.
ICPA President V K Bhalla had earlier stated that the association was in touch with the top management of IA regarding operations and have decided to fly to Singapore and not stay there for the night. The management agreed to the proposal, he had said.
rsoman , for your info , Indian Airlines don't layover in singapore . They have an hour halt & then carry on to bangkok for a layover . bangkok & K'Lumpur are not on the WHO's warning list of countries/cities affected with the virus. Air Indias crew were expected to layover in singapore for 1 day or more if a Kuala lumpur or jakarta shuttle was in their pattern . Its only now , after the ipg had given out the directive that the management pilots operate to Singapore from Madra as a round trip .
As for the days of Emergency and Press Censorship being long past gone , i fully aware . But exactly how free are we & to what extend can we come out in the papers & expose the government or other influential people about their various dealings & corruption charges ???? This anyway is side stepping the main topic .
Yes in India we can get away with anything and we can blame the management and government for everything!
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So how about BA/LH/AF ......................... the list goes on. Their pilots are more secure? Anyway I find it hard to belive that their crew has a 10 day quaurantine! And I just heard on the radio a couple of days back the UK minister making a statement that you have to be practical and cannot quarantine each and everyone coming from these places!
Tiba, if you continue to belive I harbour personal grudges, despite my assertions to the contrary, well all I can say is that the answer is no. As far as my background is concerned, a search of my previous postings in this board will give enough indications of what it is and I feel that while I am certainly not equipped to comment on ay technical issues (and you will notice I dont go out of my depth ), in this issue knowing the past dealings of the IPG (which has been well publicised in India for years) and its members, and the effect it has on had on the pasengers, I continue to stick to my stand. As told before in one of my earlier postings, India is not WEST. The passenger rights are a joke, travel insurance unheard of or unaffordable to most and peoples jobs and livelihoods are at stake (and I mean not just of AI pilots!).
If you dont beleive, here goes
Taken from www.msn.co.in
*****
AI suspends18 more pilots
New Delhi, Mumbai(Apr 29):Air India has suspended 18 more pilots.
Earlier Air India had also de-recognised the Indian Pilots' Guild (IPG) with immediate effect.
Public Relations Director Jitender Bhargava confirmed the development and said, "A letter has been sent de-recognising the guild for their anti-organisation activities and working against the airline."
Stir to end soon: Verma
In an indication of a possible breakthrough in the Air India standoff, Union Labour Minister Sahib Singh Verma has said that the Air India pilots' agitation may end soon.
The regional labour commissioner in Mumbai is holding talks with the Indian Pilots' Guild and Verma says some progress has been made towards a resolution.
However, Air India's flight schedule has been thrown in complete disarray due to the ongoing strike. While many flights have been rescheduled, some have been cancelled.
All flights out of Chennai have been cancelled till May 4, including the Chennai- Singapore-Chennai and Chennai-Mumbai flights.
Moral support
Indian Airlines pilots have expressed moral support to their agitating Air India counterparts but have denied that they will join the agitation.
The domestic pilots do undertake flights to the southeast Asian countries. But their main demand to avoid night halts in Singapore -- a SARS hot spot -- has already been accepted by their management.
Nowhere to go
But the biggest sufferers of the entire standoff have been the passengers left stranded at the various airports.
According to international norms, whenever a flight is cancelled or delayed, passengers travelling on that flight are provided with alternate arrangements and if the flight delay is overnight then the airline arranges accommodation for the passengers.
But many passengers have not been given this facility by Air India and with nowhere to go, many have been camping outside the airport from Sunday night.
"I have come from Kerala. My flight was cancelled. They asked me to leave but I have no place to go," said Varghese S, a passenger stuck at the Mumbai airport.
Stuck on the runway
Another traveller S R Ravi was planning to travel through Dubai to go to Iran for his new assignment as an electrical controller.
But his Dubai visa expired on Monday night, which means he will lose his job for which he spent over Rs 30,000.
"There is no flight. It has been cancelled thrice. My visa is expiring and if I do not go, my life is ruined," said Ravi.
With cancelled flights and no place to go, the stranded passengers offer glaring proof of just how unprepared Air India is to deal with this latest crisis.
******
This is not a country where if you dont get a job at TESCO you go to Sainsburys or by some reason that doesnt click go to Safeway and then work till you get bored! A job means a lot for people in this country! And air travel is not he play toy for the rich either there are a lot of poor people ( who are not paying the £1 fares of the no frills either) who invest a lot for their travel and who give AI their bread and butter revenue.
Poor old JRD and Neville Vintcent must be turning in their graves looking at the state of affairs of the institution what they started with so much pride back in the 1930s have come to nowadays!
Sad!
So how about BA/LH/AF ......................... the list goes on. Their pilots are more secure? Anyway I find it hard to belive that their crew has a 10 day quaurantine! And I just heard on the radio a couple of days back the UK minister making a statement that you have to be practical and cannot quarantine each and everyone coming from these places!
Tiba, if you continue to belive I harbour personal grudges, despite my assertions to the contrary, well all I can say is that the answer is no. As far as my background is concerned, a search of my previous postings in this board will give enough indications of what it is and I feel that while I am certainly not equipped to comment on ay technical issues (and you will notice I dont go out of my depth ), in this issue knowing the past dealings of the IPG (which has been well publicised in India for years) and its members, and the effect it has on had on the pasengers, I continue to stick to my stand. As told before in one of my earlier postings, India is not WEST. The passenger rights are a joke, travel insurance unheard of or unaffordable to most and peoples jobs and livelihoods are at stake (and I mean not just of AI pilots!).
If you dont beleive, here goes
Taken from www.msn.co.in
*****
AI suspends18 more pilots
New Delhi, Mumbai(Apr 29):Air India has suspended 18 more pilots.
Earlier Air India had also de-recognised the Indian Pilots' Guild (IPG) with immediate effect.
Public Relations Director Jitender Bhargava confirmed the development and said, "A letter has been sent de-recognising the guild for their anti-organisation activities and working against the airline."
Stir to end soon: Verma
In an indication of a possible breakthrough in the Air India standoff, Union Labour Minister Sahib Singh Verma has said that the Air India pilots' agitation may end soon.
The regional labour commissioner in Mumbai is holding talks with the Indian Pilots' Guild and Verma says some progress has been made towards a resolution.
However, Air India's flight schedule has been thrown in complete disarray due to the ongoing strike. While many flights have been rescheduled, some have been cancelled.
All flights out of Chennai have been cancelled till May 4, including the Chennai- Singapore-Chennai and Chennai-Mumbai flights.
Moral support
Indian Airlines pilots have expressed moral support to their agitating Air India counterparts but have denied that they will join the agitation.
The domestic pilots do undertake flights to the southeast Asian countries. But their main demand to avoid night halts in Singapore -- a SARS hot spot -- has already been accepted by their management.
Nowhere to go
But the biggest sufferers of the entire standoff have been the passengers left stranded at the various airports.
According to international norms, whenever a flight is cancelled or delayed, passengers travelling on that flight are provided with alternate arrangements and if the flight delay is overnight then the airline arranges accommodation for the passengers.
But many passengers have not been given this facility by Air India and with nowhere to go, many have been camping outside the airport from Sunday night.
"I have come from Kerala. My flight was cancelled. They asked me to leave but I have no place to go," said Varghese S, a passenger stuck at the Mumbai airport.
Stuck on the runway
Another traveller S R Ravi was planning to travel through Dubai to go to Iran for his new assignment as an electrical controller.
But his Dubai visa expired on Monday night, which means he will lose his job for which he spent over Rs 30,000.
"There is no flight. It has been cancelled thrice. My visa is expiring and if I do not go, my life is ruined," said Ravi.
With cancelled flights and no place to go, the stranded passengers offer glaring proof of just how unprepared Air India is to deal with this latest crisis.
******
This is not a country where if you dont get a job at TESCO you go to Sainsburys or by some reason that doesnt click go to Safeway and then work till you get bored! A job means a lot for people in this country! And air travel is not he play toy for the rich either there are a lot of poor people ( who are not paying the £1 fares of the no frills either) who invest a lot for their travel and who give AI their bread and butter revenue.
Poor old JRD and Neville Vintcent must be turning in their graves looking at the state of affairs of the institution what they started with so much pride back in the 1930s have come to nowadays!
Sad!
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Yes the list goes on . Its in the news that Royal nepal has also cancelled flights to singapore due to the virus scare . Now you have some airlines that operate to singapore & others that have stopped . The crew that continue to operate to these places obviously have no problem as they probably feel that sufficent measures have been taken by their management to to protect them . Now if the air india pilots feel that not enough has been done to protect them , then what should they do ??
They decided to follow a directive that they hoped would be enough to protect them & now face the wrath of the public , management & government . But what if they did nothing & continued to operate to these places & some of them got sick ??
If you read this months issue of INDIA TODAY titled Sars & why india should be scared , its states in black & white that India is not prepared & that the screening of passengers at the airports is not adequate . Our health minister says that there is nothing to worry about , but doctors n other magazines say we have to be worried & that 1 out of every 20 affected will die . Now who do we believe ??? our minister or the doctors ??
They decided to follow a directive that they hoped would be enough to protect them & now face the wrath of the public , management & government . But what if they did nothing & continued to operate to these places & some of them got sick ??
If you read this months issue of INDIA TODAY titled Sars & why india should be scared , its states in black & white that India is not prepared & that the screening of passengers at the airports is not adequate . Our health minister says that there is nothing to worry about , but doctors n other magazines say we have to be worried & that 1 out of every 20 affected will die . Now who do we believe ??? our minister or the doctors ??
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Yes its very sad that its the passengers who are suffering the most . I just hope for their sake this whole mess gets sorted out fast . JRD tata most definately is turning in his grave . The airlines down fall started when the government took over in the 1970's . The only hope for this airline is privatisation & no intefering by the government .
Well Pushpak , i for one would definately trust & believe the doctors more than any minister .
Well Pushpak , i for one would definately trust & believe the doctors more than any minister .
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Yes Sinner
I am in agrement. The way out is only privatisation (the way most of the ITDC hotels have gone- the worthwhile ones anyway) and more liberalisation. Let us hope for everyones sake that the government doesnt blow this chance. But the sad thing is the more the strike goes on, the more the losses pile up and the more difficult it is to get anyone interested in taking over AI unless someone starts wrting off these massive debts. Let us hope for the best!
But allowing say Jet or Sahara to have a shot at the gulf or singapore routes might be interesting . With their 737 700s/800s they have the aircraft and with hardly any unions and some real customer service things might get a little warm but real good for the pax!
Let us live in hope!
I am in agrement. The way out is only privatisation (the way most of the ITDC hotels have gone- the worthwhile ones anyway) and more liberalisation. Let us hope for everyones sake that the government doesnt blow this chance. But the sad thing is the more the strike goes on, the more the losses pile up and the more difficult it is to get anyone interested in taking over AI unless someone starts wrting off these massive debts. Let us hope for the best!
But allowing say Jet or Sahara to have a shot at the gulf or singapore routes might be interesting . With their 737 700s/800s they have the aircraft and with hardly any unions and some real customer service things might get a little warm but real good for the pax!
Let us live in hope!
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Finally better sense seems to prevail
Taken from rediff.com
http://www.rediff.com/money/2003/apr/30ai.htm
Some Air-India pilots report for duty, defy IPG directive
April 30, 2003 17:42 IST
Defying the directive of the Indian Pilots Guild, some pilots of Air-India on Wednesday reported for duty and rostered for flights even as the airline was considering hiring pilots of Indian origin with foreign airlines, presently laid off, on short-term contracts.
"Some line pilots have reported for flying and rostered for flights," A-I sources said, but declined to reveal the number who have joined duty.
The airline in a statement said it operated a special flight on the Mumbai-Delhi-Mumbai-Jeddah-Mumbai sector with a Boeing 747-200. It also plans to operate three additional flights to the Gulf sector on Thursday.
A-I spokesman said in a statement 'as more and more unionised pilots ignore the directive of Indian Pilots Guild and report for duty, the airline will gradually reinstate more flights'.
The A-I spokesman said normalcy of flight operations is expected to be attained soon with the management taking additional measures, including hiring of pilots of Indian origin.
"We are looking for Boeing 747-400 and Airbus A310 pilots of Indian origin in the Far East who have been laid off due to present turmoil and hiring them for two-three months only after necessary approvals from their respective airlines," he said.
Apart from this, the airline is also expediting training of its 40 odd pilots, he said. The airline intends to send them to Airbus training centre at Toulouse in France to expedite training so that they could be inducted for flying duties a month in advance, the spokesman said.
Meanwhile, A-I has begun reinstating flights with the Mumbai-Delhi-Mumbai-Jedah-Mumbai sector being operated on Wednesday with a Boeing 747, he said adding that this service had been cancelled as per the contingency plan.
Three more return flights from Mumbai to Bahrain-Doha Bangalore-Dubai and to Calicut-Dubai will operate on Thursday, while plans are underway to operate two more flights per day from May 2, the sectors and schedules of which were being worked out, he added.
********
Cheers
Taken from rediff.com
http://www.rediff.com/money/2003/apr/30ai.htm
Some Air-India pilots report for duty, defy IPG directive
April 30, 2003 17:42 IST
Defying the directive of the Indian Pilots Guild, some pilots of Air-India on Wednesday reported for duty and rostered for flights even as the airline was considering hiring pilots of Indian origin with foreign airlines, presently laid off, on short-term contracts.
"Some line pilots have reported for flying and rostered for flights," A-I sources said, but declined to reveal the number who have joined duty.
The airline in a statement said it operated a special flight on the Mumbai-Delhi-Mumbai-Jeddah-Mumbai sector with a Boeing 747-200. It also plans to operate three additional flights to the Gulf sector on Thursday.
A-I spokesman said in a statement 'as more and more unionised pilots ignore the directive of Indian Pilots Guild and report for duty, the airline will gradually reinstate more flights'.
The A-I spokesman said normalcy of flight operations is expected to be attained soon with the management taking additional measures, including hiring of pilots of Indian origin.
"We are looking for Boeing 747-400 and Airbus A310 pilots of Indian origin in the Far East who have been laid off due to present turmoil and hiring them for two-three months only after necessary approvals from their respective airlines," he said.
Apart from this, the airline is also expediting training of its 40 odd pilots, he said. The airline intends to send them to Airbus training centre at Toulouse in France to expedite training so that they could be inducted for flying duties a month in advance, the spokesman said.
Meanwhile, A-I has begun reinstating flights with the Mumbai-Delhi-Mumbai-Jedah-Mumbai sector being operated on Wednesday with a Boeing 747, he said adding that this service had been cancelled as per the contingency plan.
Three more return flights from Mumbai to Bahrain-Doha Bangalore-Dubai and to Calicut-Dubai will operate on Thursday, while plans are underway to operate two more flights per day from May 2, the sectors and schedules of which were being worked out, he added.
********
Cheers
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The whole situation is quite sad really , it looks like the only support the pilots are getting are from the IPG and NO one else........I think the government's winning this one and a few changes to be seen in the unions once this boils over.....
I do agree with rsoman in one point though which has nothing to do with the present agitation....It's high time the Indian government had a proper "open-sky" policy and allowed domestic airlines to compete with AI/IA on international routes......I'd love to fly Jet Airways from dubai to India, IA/AI need to learn how to run an airline from Jet....
Well ,that's my two cents worth......
I do agree with rsoman in one point though which has nothing to do with the present agitation....It's high time the Indian government had a proper "open-sky" policy and allowed domestic airlines to compete with AI/IA on international routes......I'd love to fly Jet Airways from dubai to India, IA/AI need to learn how to run an airline from Jet....
Well ,that's my two cents worth......
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Well a lot has happened in the past few days............as for the unionised pilots now reporting back for duty is not something that i would condemn. But the all out war between the union v/s management and government and the developments resulted from it has totally defeated the purpose of the directive in the first place. The wonderful world of politics comes into play here. The Air India pilots had made a preemptive move to bring to attention the effects of sars in their profession. As we speak now, the sars affected toll in india continues to rise. The director of WHO southeast asia region Dr N Kumara Rai has asserted the need to take the infection seriously. According to him, WHO recommends use of masks, in order of priority - the health care workers attending SARS patients, household caregivers of a patient, air crew attending SARS cases and officials at air and sea ports who screen passengers.
We have already seen in India the first two in the list having been infected despite wearing masks.........how much longer are we going to wait before the infection reaches the other two in the list? Dr Rai himself pointed out that this atypical pneumania has spread rapidly accross the globe as it has been primarily carried by air travellers.
The Air India pilots were on the right track when they chose to support the union over the directive that it issued. However the ensuing days have only shown us what power play and beuraucracy has led to. What the pilots supported at the start of this crisis has now been pushed into the backburner. All that stands right now is power games being played by a chosen few.......the members of the IPG committee and the management. The pilots themselves have not been consulted or even briefed over the developments of the past few days. As it stands today it has all boiled down to each one to their own. Through all of this the management has yet to address the issue of SARS and the impact of it. The failure of the management of a govt owned airline is a reflection of the failure of the govt itself.
However the cancellations of flights, the stranded passengers, the losses incurred from all of this.............for which the pilots are being singularly blamed is totally unfair. None of the IPG member pilots refused to fly. They had all turned up for duty on their respective scheduled flights. The management present at the operations would not allow them to fly if they chose to support the directive. The actions of the management have resulted in these consequences.
We have already seen in India the first two in the list having been infected despite wearing masks.........how much longer are we going to wait before the infection reaches the other two in the list? Dr Rai himself pointed out that this atypical pneumania has spread rapidly accross the globe as it has been primarily carried by air travellers.
The Air India pilots were on the right track when they chose to support the union over the directive that it issued. However the ensuing days have only shown us what power play and beuraucracy has led to. What the pilots supported at the start of this crisis has now been pushed into the backburner. All that stands right now is power games being played by a chosen few.......the members of the IPG committee and the management. The pilots themselves have not been consulted or even briefed over the developments of the past few days. As it stands today it has all boiled down to each one to their own. Through all of this the management has yet to address the issue of SARS and the impact of it. The failure of the management of a govt owned airline is a reflection of the failure of the govt itself.
However the cancellations of flights, the stranded passengers, the losses incurred from all of this.............for which the pilots are being singularly blamed is totally unfair. None of the IPG member pilots refused to fly. They had all turned up for duty on their respective scheduled flights. The management present at the operations would not allow them to fly if they chose to support the directive. The actions of the management have resulted in these consequences.