Ryanair moves goalpost for Buzz. Surprise!!
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Ryanair moves goalpost for Buzz. Surprise!!
Latest letter from KLM>
21 Feb 2003
Dear Colleague
I wrote to you on 31st January 2003, to advise you of the announcement of KLM to sell its shares to Ryanair with effect from 01 April 2003.
As you are also aware some changes were required by klm uk ltd in order to achieve this sa;e. Specifically, we needed to set up a new company, buzzaway ltd, and to transfer assets and all our staff into this entity by 31 march 2003. We have been working closely with your representatives on the consultation process required in this TUPE transfer. As the transfer from klm uk ltd to buzzaway ltd, does not in itself mean any changes to terms and conditions, understandably most of the focus of the two consultation sessions to date, has been on the intentions of ryanair post the purchase of the company. We are required under the TUPE process to disclose information, where it is available from the new owners on what the intentions are likely to be. To date we have provided that information within the questions and answers sent to you on 14th feb and within the consultation meetings.
You will recall that at the session on monday 4th feb in the sessions with Michael O'leary he intimated that subject to the due diligence process, ryanair would operate 12 aircraft and make in the region of 100 staff redundant.
I must now advise you that in a communication received early yesterday evening from ryanair that previous information has been substantially altered and the situation has significantly worsened.
Ryanair have confirmed that the restructuring of buzz is likely to include the following-
THE GROUNDING OF ALL BUZZ FLIGHTS FOR AT LEAST THE MONTH OF APRIL 2003
THE TERMINATION OF 10 BUZZ ROUTES FROM 31ST MARCH
THE BUZZ FLEET WILL BE REDUCED FROM 12 TO 8 AIRCRAFT, 6 737 AND 2 146.
THERE WILL BE UP TO 400 REDUNDANCIES IN BUZZ POST GROUNDING FROM MARCH 2003
THE REMAINING 200 OR SO STAFF WILL BE OFFERED INCREASED PAY AND PRODUCTIVITY ALLOWANCES.
Basically KLM have sold them down the river. Does anybody remember good old AIR UK before the dutch got involved, Stansted should have been full of union jacks not harps.
Lets just hope the take over doesn't meet regulatory approval!!
I fell sorry for the staff that have worked so hard to make a go of buzz, to now be sold off.
Thanks KLM
21 Feb 2003
Dear Colleague
I wrote to you on 31st January 2003, to advise you of the announcement of KLM to sell its shares to Ryanair with effect from 01 April 2003.
As you are also aware some changes were required by klm uk ltd in order to achieve this sa;e. Specifically, we needed to set up a new company, buzzaway ltd, and to transfer assets and all our staff into this entity by 31 march 2003. We have been working closely with your representatives on the consultation process required in this TUPE transfer. As the transfer from klm uk ltd to buzzaway ltd, does not in itself mean any changes to terms and conditions, understandably most of the focus of the two consultation sessions to date, has been on the intentions of ryanair post the purchase of the company. We are required under the TUPE process to disclose information, where it is available from the new owners on what the intentions are likely to be. To date we have provided that information within the questions and answers sent to you on 14th feb and within the consultation meetings.
You will recall that at the session on monday 4th feb in the sessions with Michael O'leary he intimated that subject to the due diligence process, ryanair would operate 12 aircraft and make in the region of 100 staff redundant.
I must now advise you that in a communication received early yesterday evening from ryanair that previous information has been substantially altered and the situation has significantly worsened.
Ryanair have confirmed that the restructuring of buzz is likely to include the following-
THE GROUNDING OF ALL BUZZ FLIGHTS FOR AT LEAST THE MONTH OF APRIL 2003
THE TERMINATION OF 10 BUZZ ROUTES FROM 31ST MARCH
THE BUZZ FLEET WILL BE REDUCED FROM 12 TO 8 AIRCRAFT, 6 737 AND 2 146.
THERE WILL BE UP TO 400 REDUNDANCIES IN BUZZ POST GROUNDING FROM MARCH 2003
THE REMAINING 200 OR SO STAFF WILL BE OFFERED INCREASED PAY AND PRODUCTIVITY ALLOWANCES.
Basically KLM have sold them down the river. Does anybody remember good old AIR UK before the dutch got involved, Stansted should have been full of union jacks not harps.
Lets just hope the take over doesn't meet regulatory approval!!
I fell sorry for the staff that have worked so hard to make a go of buzz, to now be sold off.
Thanks KLM
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Blimey - I really feel for the people of Buzz .....
I left them 2.5 years ago (having joined Air UK then KLMuk..), if only it had remained as AirUK .......
Plus now KLMuk pilots who were offered transfer back to the UK (Buzz) are stuck working for a tiny outfit flying a handful of Fokkers that KLM will doubt shaft a similar way to Buzz in the future .....
All very sad .....
I left them 2.5 years ago (having joined Air UK then KLMuk..), if only it had remained as AirUK .......
Plus now KLMuk pilots who were offered transfer back to the UK (Buzz) are stuck working for a tiny outfit flying a handful of Fokkers that KLM will doubt shaft a similar way to Buzz in the future .....
All very sad .....
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Once again it was on teletext before the letters arrived from KLM. Seems to be a recurring theme. I dont think anyone thought it would turn out how it now appears it will.
Good luck to everyone at Buzz, wherever your destiny lies over the coming months. As they say, as one door closes another opens...
Good luck to everyone at Buzz, wherever your destiny lies over the coming months. As they say, as one door closes another opens...
Last edited by timzsta; 22nd Feb 2003 at 18:21.
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Autorise a L'atterrissage
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Thanks for that Anti-ice
What choice is there really for the travelling public in the face of beancounters making these decisions?
Or reward for the loyalty and commitment of crews and staff manifested in job security?
After all RyanAir seem to go from strength to strength financially.
What opportunities do they have now in an already troubled market?
A Very Poor Show.
But. Until they, the beancounters are held to account, they will continue to Stuff their staff for as long as they please.
I may come across as militant (which I am not) but given seeming union weakness, the guys and girls must find a way to deal with these decisions, if only by confronting those who make them.
Otherwise it is BA swallowing B Cal, DanAir, et al all over again.
What choice is there really for the travelling public in the face of beancounters making these decisions?
Or reward for the loyalty and commitment of crews and staff manifested in job security?
After all RyanAir seem to go from strength to strength financially.
What opportunities do they have now in an already troubled market?
A Very Poor Show.
But. Until they, the beancounters are held to account, they will continue to Stuff their staff for as long as they please.
I may come across as militant (which I am not) but given seeming union weakness, the guys and girls must find a way to deal with these decisions, if only by confronting those who make them.
Otherwise it is BA swallowing B Cal, DanAir, et al all over again.
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how the f..k do u guys know how it is to work for Ryanair. If U search hrough the forums U wont find 1 pilot who speaks badly or in a negative way about Ryanair. All pilots that I work with are contempt, happy, well pay´d, and dont want to move. So how do U get off talking about Ryanair like that. It is a disgrace how U try to make your "brothers" who work for Ryanair look bad. I must speak out now because im appalled that peple who doesn´t know anything about Ryanair feel they have to say anything they heard on the corner bar or what a friend of a friend said. Its all roumors and nothing is substantial for any allegation. I am very happy with Ryanair and so are all my co-workers. The Buzz guys will be very weel pay´d, forseeable Roster and with a moneymaking company, what more do U want. And Im sure if there will be any union action MOL will close the company down. It is as simple as that, because he has alredy got what he wants and anything else is a bonus.
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Sad news for the Buzz contingent. The only potential light on the horizon is that if Ryanair is dropping routes to "high cost" airports, then it doesn't necessarily mean that the routes themselves were unprofitable and there is hope for another carrier to come along and take them over.
Mindthegap, judging by the distressingly poor standard of spoken English over the PA on some recent Ryanair flights on which I have travelled, I would be pleasantly surprised if anything approaching a majority of Ryanair pilots could actually conduct a written discussion on PPrune in English.
Mindthegap, judging by the distressingly poor standard of spoken English over the PA on some recent Ryanair flights on which I have travelled, I would be pleasantly surprised if anything approaching a majority of Ryanair pilots could actually conduct a written discussion on PPrune in English.
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Thanks for your views Mindthegap. Alas you seem to have missed the thrust of my point.
All the Buzz guys and gals who ae lucky enough to be re-hired by Ryanair may well have a fantastic time.
I am more concerned with the 400 out of 600 who, it appears, will not be so lucky as to transfer to the new owners.
'I'm all right, Jack' is exactly the attitude the beancounters seem to exploit, and you would appear to fit into this category. I am not really sure how you actually display your apparent concern for your 'brothers'
All the Buzz guys and gals who ae lucky enough to be re-hired by Ryanair may well have a fantastic time.
I am more concerned with the 400 out of 600 who, it appears, will not be so lucky as to transfer to the new owners.
'I'm all right, Jack' is exactly the attitude the beancounters seem to exploit, and you would appear to fit into this category. I am not really sure how you actually display your apparent concern for your 'brothers'
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Sum41 ....Or it could be that there are not enough flying jobs in their countries? Let's not forget which country is the most economically dynamic and open in Europe as well as welcoming non incumbents with relatively open arms.
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Mind the gap - I sympathise with a lot of what you say, there is a lot of rubbish said about Ryanair. But like many of my colleagues I face the real prospect of collecting my P45 next week and being unemployed.
I may only be a humble check in agent and "wannabee" but I have bills to pay, things like my car insurance and tax, exam fees to the CAA, rent etc. It is all very well when you have, as you rightly say, a good job, well payed in a profitable company. When you have the very imminent and real prospect of no job, bills to pay, families to support things are a bit different. Please learn to look at things objectively - I thought that was a quality required in abundance of an airline pilot.
I may only be a humble check in agent and "wannabee" but I have bills to pay, things like my car insurance and tax, exam fees to the CAA, rent etc. It is all very well when you have, as you rightly say, a good job, well payed in a profitable company. When you have the very imminent and real prospect of no job, bills to pay, families to support things are a bit different. Please learn to look at things objectively - I thought that was a quality required in abundance of an airline pilot.
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I'll try saying it again, the problem with buzz was with its own management and that of KLM. They thought they knew how to run a low cost operation.... they didn't. So let aim the bullets where they are deserved, not at Ryanair who are at least trying to salvage something !
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Lengthy quote from the Evening Standard finance bit - 4.Feb!...
Ryanair slashes routes and jobs
Malcolm Withers, Evening Standard 4 February 2003
RYANAIR chief executive Michael O'Leary is to slash his airline's destinations across Europe in an attempt to beat off rival easyJet in a battle for supremacy of Europe's budget airline market.
The cuts are likely to hit 21 airports across Europe as Ryanair withdraws or cuts staff while O'Leary tries to squeeze a profit by April out of Buzz, the loss-making budget-airline offshoot of Dutch carrier KLM he bought last week for £4m.
O'Leary said he will meet Buzz staff this month to tell them that at least 100 of its 500 employees will be made redundant. He also threatened to close Buzz immediately, while retaining its airport slots, if its remaining staff fail to adopt Ryanair's labour practices.
Ryanair and Buzz currently duplicate on three destinations - Amsterdam, Frankfurt and Paris - while Buzz also services a series of secondary French destinations such as Limoges, Poitiers, Caen, Brest and Dijon, which have proved popular with Londoners travelling to their second homes in France.
Margins have come under pressure as growth rates fall from their previous highs in the rapidly maturing European budget airline industry.
Ryanair's move for Buzz, which adds 23 destinations to the 32 airports Ryanair currently serves across Europe, is vital to compete with easyJet, the rival airline founded by Stelios Haji-Ioannou, which itself bought Go last year.
Following the Buzz acquisition, the two groups are head-to-head to dominate the budget airline skies over Europe. Ryanair expects to carry 16.5m passengers in the year to 31 March against the 17.2m travelling with easyJet.
Buzz will be rebranded Ryanair by 1 April, and O'Leary forecasts the cuts, improved marketing, efficient aircraft turnarounds and giving Buzz an all-Boeing 737 fleet will turn this year's expected e30m (£19.7m) Buzz deficit into a e10m profit within 13 months. The market was not convinced and Ryanair shares were down 23p at 416p.
Ryanair also announced passenger traffic in the third quarter ended 31 December grew 46% to 3.9m. Profit after tax increased by 50% to e43.1m on sales up 37% to e185.9m. It predicts full-year income of e235m, up slightly from the e230 forecast in November.
©2003 Associated Newspapers Ltd. All rights reserved.
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Ryanair slashes routes and jobs
Malcolm Withers, Evening Standard 4 February 2003
RYANAIR chief executive Michael O'Leary is to slash his airline's destinations across Europe in an attempt to beat off rival easyJet in a battle for supremacy of Europe's budget airline market.
The cuts are likely to hit 21 airports across Europe as Ryanair withdraws or cuts staff while O'Leary tries to squeeze a profit by April out of Buzz, the loss-making budget-airline offshoot of Dutch carrier KLM he bought last week for £4m.
O'Leary said he will meet Buzz staff this month to tell them that at least 100 of its 500 employees will be made redundant. He also threatened to close Buzz immediately, while retaining its airport slots, if its remaining staff fail to adopt Ryanair's labour practices.
Ryanair and Buzz currently duplicate on three destinations - Amsterdam, Frankfurt and Paris - while Buzz also services a series of secondary French destinations such as Limoges, Poitiers, Caen, Brest and Dijon, which have proved popular with Londoners travelling to their second homes in France.
Margins have come under pressure as growth rates fall from their previous highs in the rapidly maturing European budget airline industry.
Ryanair's move for Buzz, which adds 23 destinations to the 32 airports Ryanair currently serves across Europe, is vital to compete with easyJet, the rival airline founded by Stelios Haji-Ioannou, which itself bought Go last year.
Following the Buzz acquisition, the two groups are head-to-head to dominate the budget airline skies over Europe. Ryanair expects to carry 16.5m passengers in the year to 31 March against the 17.2m travelling with easyJet.
Buzz will be rebranded Ryanair by 1 April, and O'Leary forecasts the cuts, improved marketing, efficient aircraft turnarounds and giving Buzz an all-Boeing 737 fleet will turn this year's expected e30m (£19.7m) Buzz deficit into a e10m profit within 13 months. The market was not convinced and Ryanair shares were down 23p at 416p.
Ryanair also announced passenger traffic in the third quarter ended 31 December grew 46% to 3.9m. Profit after tax increased by 50% to e43.1m on sales up 37% to e185.9m. It predicts full-year income of e235m, up slightly from the e230 forecast in November.
©2003 Associated Newspapers Ltd. All rights reserved.
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BEagle
But sadly, not from STN, so Fr's route enjoys less competition.
Business is a ruthless world and I just feel very sorry for the people at Buzz and their families who will be feel the effects of these events, however smart the decision may be at a strategic level.
I dare say many of the hundreds of ex-buzz passengers from the Friday night UK2294s will be doing the same thing.
Business is a ruthless world and I just feel very sorry for the people at Buzz and their families who will be feel the effects of these events, however smart the decision may be at a strategic level.
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Senior Buzz managers went to KLM asking if they could organise a management/investment company buyout (similar to what Cassani did at GO).
The Dutch were not interested.
MoL's actions are unfortunate and very hard but the blame is totally at the door of KLM for their gross mis-management of Air UK Ltd since the takeover.
The Dutch were not interested.
MoL's actions are unfortunate and very hard but the blame is totally at the door of KLM for their gross mis-management of Air UK Ltd since the takeover.
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obviously a couple of you have missed the point here, people are more P!$$£d off with the fact that KLM were apparently going to make a go of BUZZ and then suddenly a major u-turn resulting in 100's of job losses.
Dewdrop: As far as staff were aware, Buzz was fast approaching breaking even point, so yes i agree it is a management problem, unfortunately since KLM bought AirUK they have supplied Dutch management that do not know thew british market, bring back Andrew Grey.
Mindthegap: Luckily some of us dont work and indeed dont want to know what it is like to work for a company where the command of english is as well used as professionalism. By the way the word contempt means:a strong feeling of combined dislike and lack of respect, STUPID! go back to school!!
On a more serious note as this is what this forum is about, I feel sorry that some 400 people will lose there jobs.
Dewdrop: As far as staff were aware, Buzz was fast approaching breaking even point, so yes i agree it is a management problem, unfortunately since KLM bought AirUK they have supplied Dutch management that do not know thew british market, bring back Andrew Grey.
Mindthegap: Luckily some of us dont work and indeed dont want to know what it is like to work for a company where the command of english is as well used as professionalism. By the way the word contempt means:a strong feeling of combined dislike and lack of respect, STUPID! go back to school!!
On a more serious note as this is what this forum is about, I feel sorry that some 400 people will lose there jobs.
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Longhaul:
I seem to remember your comments when the whole KLMuk split whas first talked about some time ago.
The reason this is all KLMs fault is because of gross mis management and because of the damndright sefishness and inflexibility of the VNV and KLM mainline pilots.
The employees of KLMuk were made promises of investment and careers in BUZZ which was obviously a blatant LIE. This kind of sale and pull out doesnt happen overnight, it was only three months after the split of the workforce. Most KLCuk pilots had bid to transfer to BUZZ after the VNV and KLM mainline pilots stole any carreer prospects from them. As has been said many times before we have people with up to 30 years service in AirUK/KLMuk, the blue side of the operation provided 26% of KLMs longhaul passengers keeping you and your fellow mainliners in jobs, what were they offered? IF they were below the age of 46 and passed a file check they could go to the bottom of the mainline seniority list, and after a short time DEMOTED to a position that was in line with their new seniority!! No wonder 80% of KLCuk pilots bid to transfer to buzz and out of 230 odd KLC uk pilots only 21 took the mainline option.
The pilots that were already in BUZZ had to make their decision whether to transfer to KLC uk by 1st November last year, given the promises of investment and careers in BUZZ nearly all decided to stay. Dont you think this is some kind of constructive dismissal?
The only thing that does make me smile is the egg on the face of the VNV!! They had promised F100 commands to their pilots as they almost guaranteed that most KLCuk pilots would be moving to BUZZ, now those KLCuk pilots will not be going so none of our commands for you!!
Can i ask what kind of support you and your fellow mainline pilots will be offering to your fellow KLM employees at BUZZ? I suspect nothing....... however dont ever assume this will not happen to you!! The BA merger talks havent gone away then just maybe you will be forced to come down off your mantle and think about your career and where you will fit in the combined airline, you and the VNV have set the ground rules... you may find you have to live by them.
Longhaul and all KLM mainline pilots..... its not to late to help here, the BUZZ pilots are a loyal and good bunch who need support, perhaps now is the time for you to show your solidarity with them and force KLM to employ them within the KLM groupAS PILOTS.
I seem to remember your comments when the whole KLMuk split whas first talked about some time ago.
The reason this is all KLMs fault is because of gross mis management and because of the damndright sefishness and inflexibility of the VNV and KLM mainline pilots.
The employees of KLMuk were made promises of investment and careers in BUZZ which was obviously a blatant LIE. This kind of sale and pull out doesnt happen overnight, it was only three months after the split of the workforce. Most KLCuk pilots had bid to transfer to BUZZ after the VNV and KLM mainline pilots stole any carreer prospects from them. As has been said many times before we have people with up to 30 years service in AirUK/KLMuk, the blue side of the operation provided 26% of KLMs longhaul passengers keeping you and your fellow mainliners in jobs, what were they offered? IF they were below the age of 46 and passed a file check they could go to the bottom of the mainline seniority list, and after a short time DEMOTED to a position that was in line with their new seniority!! No wonder 80% of KLCuk pilots bid to transfer to buzz and out of 230 odd KLC uk pilots only 21 took the mainline option.
The pilots that were already in BUZZ had to make their decision whether to transfer to KLC uk by 1st November last year, given the promises of investment and careers in BUZZ nearly all decided to stay. Dont you think this is some kind of constructive dismissal?
The only thing that does make me smile is the egg on the face of the VNV!! They had promised F100 commands to their pilots as they almost guaranteed that most KLCuk pilots would be moving to BUZZ, now those KLCuk pilots will not be going so none of our commands for you!!
Can i ask what kind of support you and your fellow mainline pilots will be offering to your fellow KLM employees at BUZZ? I suspect nothing....... however dont ever assume this will not happen to you!! The BA merger talks havent gone away then just maybe you will be forced to come down off your mantle and think about your career and where you will fit in the combined airline, you and the VNV have set the ground rules... you may find you have to live by them.
Longhaul and all KLM mainline pilots..... its not to late to help here, the BUZZ pilots are a loyal and good bunch who need support, perhaps now is the time for you to show your solidarity with them and force KLM to employ them within the KLM groupAS PILOTS.