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Crash in Indonesia

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Crash in Indonesia

Old 18th Jan 2002, 05:19
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Hi all...here is the UNOFFICIAL REPORT...but pretty reliable..While on descent to Jogjakarta GA 421 was flying in severe thunderstorms.On passing FL230 both engines flamed out.There were 4 attempts to restart the engines all unsucessfull and one attempt at starting the APU also to no avail.Then they lost their standby power (so much for 30mins)...while still IMC.They eventually broke cloud at 8000" and started looking for a field..decided to land on that river and was able to make one visual inspection..
before putting her down.

If this is so my congrats to the crew on ajob well done..
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Old 18th Jan 2002, 10:44
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Just an observation from seeing the first pictures on the BBC: It appears that soemone had been very busy with a can of spray paint blacking out the airline logos on the side of the plane, saw it sittting there in the river, looking quite clean apart from the spray paint!
Someone seems to want to limit exposure!
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Old 18th Jan 2002, 17:17
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Well done to the Flight Crew for a successful landing; bit ironic that if the F/A who lost her life had stayed at her post to look after the pax evacuation, she'd still be alive now........
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Old 22nd Jan 2002, 01:03
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An Indonesian navy search team has found the cockpit voice recorder of a Garuda Indonesia Boeing 737-300 that crash-landed in a Central Java river last week, the 'black box' was found 500- metres from the aircraft.

Rescue workers are still trying to salvage the plane and have managed to remove the right engine.

On Wednesday, 59 people aboard the Boeing 737 had a miraculous escape when it came down in the Bengawan Solo river.

One female flight attendant drowned and her body was found a few hours later.

Garuda says the plane had suffered engine failure.
 
Old 22nd Jan 2002, 01:52
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So is there any truth in this statement?. . [quote]"It's a Garuda B737-300 (PK-GWA). Overran landing at Solo and into river.<hr></blockquote>
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Old 22nd Jan 2002, 03:13
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Well, don't forget that there is volcanic activity in the region. In fact the first recorded all engine flame out due to volcanic ash occured near Jakarta. So let's see what the turbines look like...
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Old 22nd Jan 2002, 08:21
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There is an active volcano very near to Solo but the airways go nowhere near it and the the eruption would need to be substantial to the extent that we would know about it.

It is common practice around the world to black out the identifying marks on crashed a/c so why are some people making such a fuss of it here?
 
Old 22nd Jan 2002, 08:25
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Fuel starvation would explain 4 unsuccessful relights and inability to start the APU.
 
Old 22nd Jan 2002, 08:50
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knackered. .Acknowledged that it is standard practice to black out the airline name. The question is why?
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Old 22nd Jan 2002, 09:01
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The airline does want to be associated with the accident.

If joe nobody, who doesn't pay attention to the news, happens to be passing on that bridge near where the garuda 737 went down, he will not exactly have a positive association to make with the airline.

In short, the airlines pressure local governemental agencies to allow the logos to painted off as soon as possible, and it is sometimes even joked that these painters arrive on the scene of a crash before the accident investigators do.
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Old 22nd Jan 2002, 11:37
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Asked the Ground Eng. on a turnaround yesterday down in that neck of the woods so take it all with a pinch of salt. He was told they got the fuel a bit wrong, stooged around in the bad wx wondering whether to make an approach or hold till wx cleared or proceed to alt and simply ran out of gas. It was initially about an hours flight to destination. Deadsticked it into the river bed so not a bad outcome but three cheers for daylight. Including all the ones the media doesn't get to hear about best estimate is 26 hull losses in 9 years including this one for Garuda Indonesia. Anyone heard anything totally different?
 
Old 22nd Jan 2002, 11:41
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But double flameout due wx sounds better. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
 
Old 22nd Jan 2002, 12:34
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Certainly makes more sense. Still lucky to get away with it. Pity someone else pays the price ie the FA.
 
Old 22nd Jan 2002, 12:34
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I speak Indonesian and have read the report in Kompas from the link which was posted earlier. There is an English translation on the same link which is reasonably close to the original Indonesian version, except for the passengers "without being ordered" calling out in unison to Allah. The translator seems to have added that bit. It is the newspaper which has proposed the idea of icing causing the flame outs after asking for the opinions of other local pilots. They dismiss the hydraulic failure theory because if that was the case the pilot would have declared a Mayday, and he didn't, so it wasn't-interesting logic. Electrical power was lost and the APU was being used for relight attempts. A villager found the flight attendant floating face down, with little blood apparent . He diagnosed her as suffering from a "broken bone", and suggested she died when jumping out the door to save herself. The water was only knee deep. As reported elsewhere there was heavy rain in the area at the time. One wing clipped the bank on landing. The crew added to the panic by running around yelling "emergency"! The crew are safe but their whereabouts are unknown.
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Old 22nd Jan 2002, 14:20
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Weather would not likely prevent the APU from starting also, but lack of fuel on board sure would. <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
 
Old 22nd Jan 2002, 14:41
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Just to be clear - we at ATI reported that Garuda said in an official statement that the captain said the engines flamed out in heavy rain. Yes it does sound a bit odd given the history, and no we don't have a view as to whether it's a correct explanation or not. Any offers of sensible information gratefully accepted.
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Old 22nd Jan 2002, 14:54
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Kaptin M – the post you refer to on the previous page was made by me very soon after the incident was reported. That’s how it was stated on the news bulletin I received, so that’s how I posted it. I suppose I could have checked that there was an airport at ‘Solo’ – but at least I got the location and registration mark right!
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Old 22nd Jan 2002, 15:58
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It is understood that initial indications are that there was fuel.

I can immediately think of two double flame outs due water or water/ice ingestion where the engines were not relit as follows:-

May 24, 1988 Boeing 737-300 N75356 TACA near New Orleans.

'While in bound to New Orleans, during the descent from FL350, the crew noted generally green and yellow returns on their weather radar but with some 'isolated' red cells on both sides of their planned track. Before entering the cloud at about 30,000ft., the captain selected continuous engine ignition and turned on the engine anti-ice system. The descent continued with the crew selecting a path between two storm cells showing as red on the radar. Shortly after this heavy rain, hail and turbulence were encountered and as the aircraft reached about 16,500ft., both of its engines flamed out. The crew started up the APU and electrical power was restored as the aircraft descended through 10,600ft. Several attempts were made to restart the engines (four attempts, two on each engine) but without success. With no power and little prospect of reaching an airfield, it is believed that the captain became resigned to having to ditch the aircraft in the Intracoastal Waterway, however, in the end, he was able to land on a narrow grass strip between a canal and a levee. The forced landing was successful and the aircraft suffered only minimal damage.

The NTSB determined that the probable cause of the accident was a double engine flame out due to water ingestion which occurred as a result of an encounter with a region of very heavy rain and hail. A contributing cause of the accident was the inadequate design of the engines and the FAA's water ingestion certification standards which did not reflect the 'waterfall' rates that can be expected in moderate or higher intensity thunderstorms.'

and

April 4, 1977 DC-9 Srs.31 N1335U Southern Airways, New Hope, Georgia

'Whilst descending through 15,000ft., enroute from Huntsville, Alabama to Atlanta the aircraft encountered a severe thunderstorm near Rome, Georgia. After entering the storm both of its engines sustained damage through the ingestion of 'massive amounts' of water and hail. Both engines suffered severe compressor stalls an eventually failed. The crew were unable to restart the engines and were forced to carry out an emergency landing. The aircraft attempted to land on Highway 92 at New Hope, but struck a tree and a gas station and was destroyed by impact and fire. Apart from the occupants of the aircraft, nine people on the ground also died as the result of the accident.

The NTSB determined that the probable cause of the accident was the total and unique loss of thrust from both engines due to the ingestion of water and hail, which, in combination with thrust lever movement, induced severe stalling and major damage to the engine compressors. Contributing to the accident was the failure of the company's despatching system to provide the crew with up-to-date severe weather information, the captain's reliance of weather radar for thunderstorm penetration and limitations in the ATC system, which precluded the timely dissemination of realtime hazardous weather information to the crew.'

Any others?

Lastly, including 'those accidents the media does not report', Garuda (excluding Merpati) has suffered four 'hull losses' (Boeing/FSF definition) including one event where the aircraft was not badly damaged but was apparently not repaired for commercial reasons in the last ten years. . .If you include Merpati then the number goes up considerably (but not to 26) but look at where that airline is operating.
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Old 22nd Jan 2002, 17:46
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Mr Nosy, that is a very interesting foot note you add, look at where they are operating. Those Asian pilots operate daily in what is likely the most demanding weather encountered anywhere in the world ! C/B/s are a daily event and if you can fly above FL 300 you are lucky. Remember the old Viscounts/Vanguards/Electras/748's that used to operate regularly inter-island in Indonesia. I take my hat off to all those flyers who every day fly into some of the worst wx on earth, and all for a few thousand Rupiah's a month. Before you start slanging those guys off for lack of fuel, let's all sit and wait, read the official report, and once more be glad they more or less got it all down in one piece !
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Old 22nd Jan 2002, 17:50
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NNT - before you hit MrNosy too hard just re-read the first line of his post.
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