Single Pilot Operation !!!
Join Date: Jun 2001
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One has to be very careful.
I am not saying that this applies in this case, just sounds like the captain was the sort of captain that the UK suffered from all those years ago.....
I think that it is generally agreed that there are some races that have a culture that is not suited to flying aeroplanes. However we are not allowed o say this because it is construed as being racist.
Whilst the accusers go on accusing, the issue will not be tackled and aeroplanes will still keep crashing.
How can this be sorted?
I am not saying that this applies in this case, just sounds like the captain was the sort of captain that the UK suffered from all those years ago.....
I think that it is generally agreed that there are some races that have a culture that is not suited to flying aeroplanes. However we are not allowed o say this because it is construed as being racist.
Whilst the accusers go on accusing, the issue will not be tackled and aeroplanes will still keep crashing.
How can this be sorted?
Join Date: Feb 2001
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If you want to get a taste how Middle East student pilots fly, nip up to Cranfield tune into TWR 134.92 or APR 122.85 and listen to the mayhem they cause poor old ATC, who really do a great job given the EXTREME circumstances with these pilots.
Some of these ME pilots have taxied without ATC permission, taken off without ATC permission and caused problems in the circuit like going from number 4 in the circuit to number 1 in a flash.
It makes me wonder what is behind their logic and common sense.
One thing is for sure, I'm staying well away from flying on any Arabic Airlines.
Cheers,
LG
Some of these ME pilots have taxied without ATC permission, taken off without ATC permission and caused problems in the circuit like going from number 4 in the circuit to number 1 in a flash.
It makes me wonder what is behind their logic and common sense.
One thing is for sure, I'm staying well away from flying on any Arabic Airlines.
Cheers,
LG
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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Join Date: May 1999
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AAL_Silverbird
Try http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...30/wpilo30.xml
Thats what I did to find it for you although I did get it out of the paper version.null
Try http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...30/wpilo30.xml
Thats what I did to find it for you although I did get it out of the paper version.null
Join Date: Aug 2000
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We must live pretty sheltered lives.
Having had the opportunity to both work with and train many students right out of Beirut, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Dar es Salaam and others, we have yet to come across anyone who has caused this incredible "havoc". There are cultural differences, to be sure, and perhaps the attitude in the cockpit is more of a generational difference there, but the young men we have trained here in Canada are every bit as courteous, intelligent, and perhaps even more motivated than most who attend our training center.
Seems there's a couple of necks in here that have a distinctly rosy glow . . . .
Having had the opportunity to both work with and train many students right out of Beirut, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Dar es Salaam and others, we have yet to come across anyone who has caused this incredible "havoc". There are cultural differences, to be sure, and perhaps the attitude in the cockpit is more of a generational difference there, but the young men we have trained here in Canada are every bit as courteous, intelligent, and perhaps even more motivated than most who attend our training center.
Seems there's a couple of necks in here that have a distinctly rosy glow . . . .
Stratocaster,
Have to disagree with you on your statement re it being a cultural issue. Flight Safety is NOT a cultural issue.
By this reckoning, the recent genocides in Africa and former Yugoslavia could be excused as culture issues.
That sort of thinking is a slippery slope towards the downwards spiral.
Doc C.
Have to disagree with you on your statement re it being a cultural issue. Flight Safety is NOT a cultural issue.
By this reckoning, the recent genocides in Africa and former Yugoslavia could be excused as culture issues.
That sort of thinking is a slippery slope towards the downwards spiral.
Doc C.
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Whaz'up, Doc ?
I didn't mean to say FS is a cultural issue, and I don't think it is. That's quite stupid actually. I just say that it's more difficult for some cultures to stick to CRM guidelines.
It's not always easy for us (Europeans/North Americans, etc.), so it's even worse in other parts of the world where how old you are is more important than how much you know (including about yourself).
Is that OK with you, Doc ?
I didn't mean to say FS is a cultural issue, and I don't think it is. That's quite stupid actually. I just say that it's more difficult for some cultures to stick to CRM guidelines.
It's not always easy for us (Europeans/North Americans, etc.), so it's even worse in other parts of the world where how old you are is more important than how much you know (including about yourself).
Is that OK with you, Doc ?
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Well Well Well. I think that Four Forces should have used this CRM issue as an example as bad CRM than that of Hamrahs! I bet that it raised a few eyebrows from the flight attendants when the F/O was off loaded!
(Edited as I dont know how to use UBB or cut and paste properly!)
[ 04 August 2001: Message edited by: HomerSimpson ]
[ 04 August 2001: Message edited by: HomerSimpson ]
(Edited as I dont know how to use UBB or cut and paste properly!)
[ 04 August 2001: Message edited by: HomerSimpson ]
[ 04 August 2001: Message edited by: HomerSimpson ]
Join Date: Jan 2001
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My my, how politically correct we've become. Fact is flight safety and CRM do not exist in a vacuum are very much cultural issues. Of course the company's culture is most defining but how do you separate societal culture and company culture in some third world airlines? If your country advocates a strict conformist attitude, then how are you to think outside the box when a situation isn't covered by the checklist? If society tells you to respect age and rank without question, how are you to question your Captain? Can your birth caste be an issue in the cockpit? I'm sure many of you non-pc ppruners can think of other examples of society intruding in the cockpit.
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I think that this subject lowers itself in the land of sickly racial slurs.I can firmly state that I worked for ten years in the middle east and for once have to find any person who has more flying and management skills then my old Chief Pilot on the 747, (F.R. for the old Saudi drivers) And let me assure you that he was not the only excellent Saudi around. So let's stop this racial nonsense and stick to the facts, realising that you have jerks and idiots in every race.
