pilots against hours increase
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Montsegur
A written parliamentary question from yesterday's Hansard:
Flight Time Limitations
Mr. Pickthall: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what discussions he has had with the British Airline Pilots Association about EU proposals to standardise flight time limitations throughout the EU; and if he will make a statement. [107221]
Mr. Jamieson [holding answer 8 April 2003]: There have been several meetings between BALPA and the Civil Aviation Authority at which the European Parliament's proposal has been discussed. The CAA has reviewed the European Parliament's proposed FTL requirements. They advise that, while the requirements are not totally acceptable, with suitable amendment they could form a baseline European FTL requirement which could be supplemented by additional requirements in each Member State. We recognise the need for FTL requirements to be harmonised at a European level and should the proposal come before the Council we will work constructively with other Member States to ensure that it is appropriately amended.
http://www.publications.parliament.u...w04.html_sbhd2
Flight Time Limitations
Mr. Pickthall: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what discussions he has had with the British Airline Pilots Association about EU proposals to standardise flight time limitations throughout the EU; and if he will make a statement. [107221]
Mr. Jamieson [holding answer 8 April 2003]: There have been several meetings between BALPA and the Civil Aviation Authority at which the European Parliament's proposal has been discussed. The CAA has reviewed the European Parliament's proposed FTL requirements. They advise that, while the requirements are not totally acceptable, with suitable amendment they could form a baseline European FTL requirement which could be supplemented by additional requirements in each Member State. We recognise the need for FTL requirements to be harmonised at a European level and should the proposal come before the Council we will work constructively with other Member States to ensure that it is appropriately amended.
http://www.publications.parliament.u...w04.html_sbhd2
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4
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From: out in the cold
Not only the authorities...
Apart from legislators, air offices and companies, there's another factor in FDR that might spoil your day. How about this:
Swiss generally speaking is Crossair expanded by the remnanats of Swissair. The Swissair pilots forced through an own contract, both pilot forces are at loggerheads (quite literally), but both also had more or less the same FDR. In a nutshell, that's a max duty day of 12 hrs for the obvious safety reasons. The introduction of theses limitations was preeceded in the past by major fights against the management. Now, the company is shedding jobs and one pilots union, Aeropers (EX-Swissair), offers to syphon off the whole charter business and the associated jobs from the other pilot group (EX-Crossair) by offering to fly longer hours than the others on two crew. And the management is really delighted. This treason brings playing out the pilots against each other to new dimensions.
Swiss generally speaking is Crossair expanded by the remnanats of Swissair. The Swissair pilots forced through an own contract, both pilot forces are at loggerheads (quite literally), but both also had more or less the same FDR. In a nutshell, that's a max duty day of 12 hrs for the obvious safety reasons. The introduction of theses limitations was preeceded in the past by major fights against the management. Now, the company is shedding jobs and one pilots union, Aeropers (EX-Swissair), offers to syphon off the whole charter business and the associated jobs from the other pilot group (EX-Crossair) by offering to fly longer hours than the others on two crew. And the management is really delighted. This treason brings playing out the pilots against each other to new dimensions.
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1
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From: Malaysia
Pilots who are on regular rosters wouldn't want to max every 28 days whilst those on temp would fly as much as possible. Two different goals and therein lies the disunity. The danger is with the newer a/c like the A380. Planes can be made to fly farther and longer but the human body has not advanced much. Extra sets of crew can be put on board but I for one would not want to spend 14 hrs or more inside a tube, day in and day out.
There is no research done for this kind of extended time in the plane on a regular basis and based on my own experience in long haul, I know it will be very taxing. Personally, I wouldn't touch the blood money.
There is no research done for this kind of extended time in the plane on a regular basis and based on my own experience in long haul, I know it will be very taxing. Personally, I wouldn't touch the blood money.
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6
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From: UK
European FTL's - 10 June 2004
The EU Council of Ministers is meeting on 10 June with the intention of adopting Sub Part Q (harmonizing EU FTL's). It looks as if they propose to adopt the legislation in full.
Despite the intense lobbying BALPA have undertaken, it may be worth another e-mail to your MP and MEP highlighting the fact that this legislation is dangerous and unresearched, by passing CAP 371 in the UK, which is the product of years of research into fatigue and accidents.
All EU pilots who operate under national FTL's need to voice concern to their respective representatives that this is unnacceptable and erodes all that we strive to achieve - safety.
Come on chaps - don't whisper - SHOUT!
THIS IS NOT SAFE
Despite the intense lobbying BALPA have undertaken, it may be worth another e-mail to your MP and MEP highlighting the fact that this legislation is dangerous and unresearched, by passing CAP 371 in the UK, which is the product of years of research into fatigue and accidents.
All EU pilots who operate under national FTL's need to voice concern to their respective representatives that this is unnacceptable and erodes all that we strive to achieve - safety.
Come on chaps - don't whisper - SHOUT!
THIS IS NOT SAFE
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 32
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From: UK
Swing Wing
I wrote to my MP and all eight of my Eastern Region MEP's upon reading your post yesterday. I have received two replies today - a very unhelpful one from the UKIP slagging off Europe but saying nothing on this issue, and a positive one from the Lid Dem MEP ... to quote.....
" You raise a matter of real concern. I will take up the issue with the Transport Commissioner. Airline safety needs to be a major concern for all of us. "
My whisper, as you suggest, needs reinforcing by others so that it becomes a shout.
You can access email addresses for your Region's MEP's at
http://www.europarl.org.uk/uk_meps/MembersMain.htm
WE
I wrote to my MP and all eight of my Eastern Region MEP's upon reading your post yesterday. I have received two replies today - a very unhelpful one from the UKIP slagging off Europe but saying nothing on this issue, and a positive one from the Lid Dem MEP ... to quote.....
" You raise a matter of real concern. I will take up the issue with the Transport Commissioner. Airline safety needs to be a major concern for all of us. "
My whisper, as you suggest, needs reinforcing by others so that it becomes a shout.
You can access email addresses for your Region's MEP's at
http://www.europarl.org.uk/uk_meps/MembersMain.htm
WE
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,425
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From: n/a
of course you could do nothing and work 13 hour days or 6 sector 11 hour days. with company mandated extension or split on top so theoretically you could do 16 hours without having a sleeping oportunity and then only get 8 hours in a hotel asleep before doing it again.
read the whole scary document at
http://www2.europarl.eu.int/omk/sipa...NAV=S&LSTDOC=Y
And write to your MP, MEP, and the PM and transport sec NOW!!!
Alistair Darling, Secretary of State for Transport, Great Minster House, 76 Marsham Street, London SW1P 4DR or e-mail to: [email protected]
read the whole scary document at
http://www2.europarl.eu.int/omk/sipa...NAV=S&LSTDOC=Y
And write to your MP, MEP, and the PM and transport sec NOW!!!
Alistair Darling, Secretary of State for Transport, Great Minster House, 76 Marsham Street, London SW1P 4DR or e-mail to: [email protected]
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,178
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From: UK
I have emailed my MP, Alistair Darling and the PM (via the No 10 web site).
It does say the PM receives over 1 million emails in a year so not sure how to get the message through in time.
Though about emailing LBC or Radio London to try and promote a broadcast debate about working hours in general and then trying to get through on a phone-in.
Any other ideas???
It does say the PM receives over 1 million emails in a year so not sure how to get the message through in time.
Though about emailing LBC or Radio London to try and promote a broadcast debate about working hours in general and then trying to get through on a phone-in.
Any other ideas???
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: UK
Good effort chaps
My view is that if Darling et al, plus your local MP/MEP get enough irritating letters concerning these changes, someone will ask the right questions to the right people.
There is a concerted effort within our Company to fire off messages to as many interested parties as possible. There is real concern that a serious erosion of flight safety is underway, perpetrated by political numb-nuts who just want any old pan-European legislation in place to justify their allowances!
This is a real threat being imposed by a body that knows very little about the way we operate, combined with the fatigue, the impact on health and family that long haul can dictate.
A concerted effort by enough Flight Crew will surely raise alarm bells - but we need to be quick.
My view is that if Darling et al, plus your local MP/MEP get enough irritating letters concerning these changes, someone will ask the right questions to the right people.
There is a concerted effort within our Company to fire off messages to as many interested parties as possible. There is real concern that a serious erosion of flight safety is underway, perpetrated by political numb-nuts who just want any old pan-European legislation in place to justify their allowances!
This is a real threat being imposed by a body that knows very little about the way we operate, combined with the fatigue, the impact on health and family that long haul can dictate.
A concerted effort by enough Flight Crew will surely raise alarm bells - but we need to be quick.
Moderator
Joined: Apr 1998
Posts: 1,335
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From: err, *******, we have a problem
Interesting take on the longhaul lifestyle. I've done transpacifics, with one day off becoming two due to the time change (and subsequent inversion of the body-clock leading to some interesting medical effects,) 5 transatlantics in a month over many months, transatlantic 3-day trips followed next day by Gulf 3- and 4-day trips, (playing that interesting game that almost none of the general public know about of "Where exactly is my body-clock now!!??!!) ..became friendly with company-prescribed Temazapam, and even turned down 5-days overtime twice in my career because I simply was too tired to do it, and needed the time at home more than the money.
..and just once in a while the schedule gave me a day off in Accra.. and even once a day off in Bermuda.. not a luxury, just the simple expedient of there not being a flight every single day, or else see the above paragraph for how the company would have played the schedule.
Funnily enough, Mr Brown's concept of longhaul above doesn't quite square with the reality, but then that's why we have the red type at the bottom of the page, to counter such uninformed trolls.
Now shorthaul; a week of earlies, no report later than 0530 is now a regularity. Equally tiring, but in a different way.. perhaps a more insidious way.. no more temazepam, but it is equally as difficult sometimes on the last sector, even in good, easy weather, to keep the attention level up... good job there's two there sometimes, to catch the little things you miss...
So, no need for violins, but for goodness sake lose the mythology.... the flying lifestyle does not exist as portrayed by some above as some idyllic paid holiday. Given the chance our companies would work us to Italian rules plus 50%, with company issued tents to camp under the wings of the aircraft, and would sell it to the public as a flight safety benefit that we never left the vicinity of the aircraft for the entire month we were with it, before our two days off. Reductio Ad Absurdum of course, but there's a reason why that is a valid argumentative tactic, and the AOC holders we work for consider it a starting point for negotiation.
..and just once in a while the schedule gave me a day off in Accra.. and even once a day off in Bermuda.. not a luxury, just the simple expedient of there not being a flight every single day, or else see the above paragraph for how the company would have played the schedule.
Funnily enough, Mr Brown's concept of longhaul above doesn't quite square with the reality, but then that's why we have the red type at the bottom of the page, to counter such uninformed trolls.
Now shorthaul; a week of earlies, no report later than 0530 is now a regularity. Equally tiring, but in a different way.. perhaps a more insidious way.. no more temazepam, but it is equally as difficult sometimes on the last sector, even in good, easy weather, to keep the attention level up... good job there's two there sometimes, to catch the little things you miss...
So, no need for violins, but for goodness sake lose the mythology.... the flying lifestyle does not exist as portrayed by some above as some idyllic paid holiday. Given the chance our companies would work us to Italian rules plus 50%, with company issued tents to camp under the wings of the aircraft, and would sell it to the public as a flight safety benefit that we never left the vicinity of the aircraft for the entire month we were with it, before our two days off. Reductio Ad Absurdum of course, but there's a reason why that is a valid argumentative tactic, and the AOC holders we work for consider it a starting point for negotiation.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 361
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From: UK
This thread is becoming quite long now - and quite rightly so, sleep is vitally important - whatever you do in life.
Probably,in reality, even more so in an aviation environment.... One thing is for sure, as long as we maintain our airlines vital 'operational' needs and produce a profit, then this issue will be quietly brushed under the carpet for along time to come.
I hate to say this , but the only thing that will cause our managers / beancounters to take this seriously will be an accident involving significant loss of life somewhere in Europe.
I hope i'm not right, but where have we seen this attitude before?
As long as they can get away with drumming into our heads the need to make a profit / endless security routines & requirements, this will be 'conveniently' forgotten about........
In the current climate, most of the really important things about flying are being pushed aside..........
Probably,in reality, even more so in an aviation environment.... One thing is for sure, as long as we maintain our airlines vital 'operational' needs and produce a profit, then this issue will be quietly brushed under the carpet for along time to come.
I hate to say this , but the only thing that will cause our managers / beancounters to take this seriously will be an accident involving significant loss of life somewhere in Europe.
I hope i'm not right, but where have we seen this attitude before?
As long as they can get away with drumming into our heads the need to make a profit / endless security routines & requirements, this will be 'conveniently' forgotten about........
In the current climate, most of the really important things about flying are being pushed aside..........
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 474
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From: uk
Back to the top to keep everyone thinking about hours and fatigue with the proposed changes in FTL's.
Below some of the latest from Balpa.
For those pilots/potential pilots within europe not in a union the text it is worth some thought as it will also affect your future lifestyle.
There is a very real danger that a European Council of Ministers meeting on 10th/11th June could adopt new FTLs. The proposed Sub Part Q would, for instance, introduce a basic FDP limit for 2 pilots of 13 hours with an extra hour on top with "operator's discretion", minimum rest periods calculated on previous FDP - NOT duty - and insufficient reduction in FDP for multi sector days.
Together with our colleagues in ECA we are pressing
* To ensure the Council of Ministers does not endorse the current proposals.
* To build political and public support for a European FTL scheme designed using scientific evidence.
In support of our case we are arguing that:
* Science is not being allowed to express a view.
* Professional pilots are concerned for the safety of the travelling public
* We want a European scheme based on science, not political compromise.
* The current proposals
o would increase the probability of accidents (see attached chart from a recent FAA report on probability of accident v flight time)
o lead to working arrangements that affect the body more than the drink/driving level
o are at odds with what the law is now saying
o are less humane than the directive for the transport of animals! (see Directive attached)
We have agreed within ECA a campaign that will operate in each country and at European level. It has 4 levels:
Level 1 - Political.
* Members are already writing to their MP and Alistair Darling - the UK Minister who would attend the Council meeting. Examples of 2 of these are attached. We would ask all CCs to encourage members to follow this lead. Templates are not being supplied - in your own words works best; in person is a killer!
* We have written to prospective MEPs (copy attached) seeking their support both now, and in case the matter is agreed by the Council and goes back to the European Parliament. MEPs might be susceptible to an approach now (see website)
* In addition to writing to our Minister later next week, we will be lobbying the Commission and submitting scientific evidence that challenges their draft regulation. We will be quoting Article 95(3) of the Treaty that says laws must be written using available science. We will follow this up in both Houses of our own Parliament and seeking a review.
Level 2 - Legal
* We are exploring whether there is now European case law on how standby is counted.
* As with the Police Sky Marshall debate, we are exploring the interaction of Professional ethics, the ANO and new FTL laws that might force a pilot to make a decision that could be less safe. We will be running a members poll on our website next week asking if members support this approach.
Level 3 - Industrial
* Following on from the previous point we will be writing to your CEO outlining our concerns and highlighting the potential for disruption.
You could help in the industrial context by writing and asking your CEO for a statement on where they stand on the use of science in designing sub-part Q.
Level 4 - Public attitudes
* We are using MORI this weekend to ask the public who they trust to write these regulations.
* We will be briefing the press regularly, both in the UK and in Europe.
* We are writing to all interested consumer groups.
* We may be running a major Lobby of the Council meeting in Luxembourg on 10th June, further details will be sent to those members who volunteered last year.
We will know by 4th June if our argument is getting home and whether the issue will appear on the council agenda in Luxembourg. But our experience since the issue first arose over a decade ago, and of the Fully Awake campaign which successfully ran in January, is that the argument is never really won; they will keep coming back. And BALPA will continue to resist anything that is not based on science.
Hope you are all able to help (get a thread going on your forum, it is a great source of ideas; and wit!) And if you want to make suggestions please don't hold back.
Jim McAuslan, General Secretary
www.balpa.org
For those who wll be future passengers do you really want the folks at the front driving you at the ground to be knackered
Below some of the latest from Balpa.
For those pilots/potential pilots within europe not in a union the text it is worth some thought as it will also affect your future lifestyle.
There is a very real danger that a European Council of Ministers meeting on 10th/11th June could adopt new FTLs. The proposed Sub Part Q would, for instance, introduce a basic FDP limit for 2 pilots of 13 hours with an extra hour on top with "operator's discretion", minimum rest periods calculated on previous FDP - NOT duty - and insufficient reduction in FDP for multi sector days.
Together with our colleagues in ECA we are pressing
* To ensure the Council of Ministers does not endorse the current proposals.
* To build political and public support for a European FTL scheme designed using scientific evidence.
In support of our case we are arguing that:
* Science is not being allowed to express a view.
* Professional pilots are concerned for the safety of the travelling public
* We want a European scheme based on science, not political compromise.
* The current proposals
o would increase the probability of accidents (see attached chart from a recent FAA report on probability of accident v flight time)
o lead to working arrangements that affect the body more than the drink/driving level
o are at odds with what the law is now saying
o are less humane than the directive for the transport of animals! (see Directive attached)
We have agreed within ECA a campaign that will operate in each country and at European level. It has 4 levels:
Level 1 - Political.
* Members are already writing to their MP and Alistair Darling - the UK Minister who would attend the Council meeting. Examples of 2 of these are attached. We would ask all CCs to encourage members to follow this lead. Templates are not being supplied - in your own words works best; in person is a killer!
* We have written to prospective MEPs (copy attached) seeking their support both now, and in case the matter is agreed by the Council and goes back to the European Parliament. MEPs might be susceptible to an approach now (see website)
* In addition to writing to our Minister later next week, we will be lobbying the Commission and submitting scientific evidence that challenges their draft regulation. We will be quoting Article 95(3) of the Treaty that says laws must be written using available science. We will follow this up in both Houses of our own Parliament and seeking a review.
Level 2 - Legal
* We are exploring whether there is now European case law on how standby is counted.
* As with the Police Sky Marshall debate, we are exploring the interaction of Professional ethics, the ANO and new FTL laws that might force a pilot to make a decision that could be less safe. We will be running a members poll on our website next week asking if members support this approach.
Level 3 - Industrial
* Following on from the previous point we will be writing to your CEO outlining our concerns and highlighting the potential for disruption.
You could help in the industrial context by writing and asking your CEO for a statement on where they stand on the use of science in designing sub-part Q.
Level 4 - Public attitudes
* We are using MORI this weekend to ask the public who they trust to write these regulations.
* We will be briefing the press regularly, both in the UK and in Europe.
* We are writing to all interested consumer groups.
* We may be running a major Lobby of the Council meeting in Luxembourg on 10th June, further details will be sent to those members who volunteered last year.
We will know by 4th June if our argument is getting home and whether the issue will appear on the council agenda in Luxembourg. But our experience since the issue first arose over a decade ago, and of the Fully Awake campaign which successfully ran in January, is that the argument is never really won; they will keep coming back. And BALPA will continue to resist anything that is not based on science.
Hope you are all able to help (get a thread going on your forum, it is a great source of ideas; and wit!) And if you want to make suggestions please don't hold back.
Jim McAuslan, General Secretary
www.balpa.org
For those who wll be future passengers do you really want the folks at the front driving you at the ground to be knackered
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,425
Likes: 0
From: n/a
Having e-mailed my MEP MP and the PM and transprt sec.
I've had some very negative replies along the lines of
"you dont understand the political issues"
and
"at least this compromise is better than no regulation at all"
They try to state that the UK will retain its higher standard of FTL through CAP.
My experiance with the elements of JAR implemented so far, and personally in other industries affected by euroland, is that once there is a common EU policy the UK will be forced to rapidly come into line with it regardless of the wishes of the national regulator.
This issue is critical NOW.
Hassle your elected representatives. Its easy and its what they are getting paid £60K+ a year for.
I've had some very negative replies along the lines of
"you dont understand the political issues"
and
"at least this compromise is better than no regulation at all"
They try to state that the UK will retain its higher standard of FTL through CAP.
My experiance with the elements of JAR implemented so far, and personally in other industries affected by euroland, is that once there is a common EU policy the UK will be forced to rapidly come into line with it regardless of the wishes of the national regulator.
This issue is critical NOW.
Hassle your elected representatives. Its easy and its what they are getting paid £60K+ a year for.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,178
Likes: 0
From: UK
The EU meeting of the 10th deferred FTLs discussion till the 11th.
The meeting on the 11th, said it was to come before the EU council again for discussion at "...one of our next meetings..."
What a waste of time!
The meeting on the 11th, said it was to come before the EU council again for discussion at "...one of our next meetings..."
What a waste of time!
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 4
From: last time I looked I was still here.
Wow, there are now 3 threads on page 1 along these lines. I'm not sure if the use of the 'fatigue' weapon is the most likely to succeed. It is too subjective, perhaps.
If the MP & MEP route is not proving successful, there might be another.
Recently, and I can't remember his name or the case in question, but the chairman of the famous 'Health & Safety at work Executive' was getting hot under the collar about the consequences of people being overworked and overstressed in certain industiries. I think teachers and health workers were among them. He was going into action! He even specualted on the cost to the country of the loss in productive days due to sickness. (I wonder what the total % sick leave is in the airline world; flight crews not office staff/)
Surely we can get more from the HSE than being made to look like 2 legged canaries every time we go to work.
Once again, though, I have no faith in BALPA, the ECA (if it still exists) or any other of the pilot associations. There were decrees made by the EU commission more than 10 years ago, that public transport had to introduce compensation measures for its employees until the could, very shortly, impliment improvements in working conditions similar to those enjoyed by ground personel in other industries. This edict has been totally ignored and the pilot bodies, and authorities, have done sweet fanny adam about it. Get a copy of that EU commission edict and shove it under the correct noses. They will soon be out of joint and maybe something will happen.
However, with all the blah blah that has been on here in the past 2 years, Times reporters and all, how come it still not yet in the public demain? Panorama would love it. When an a/c crashes Discovery channel does a great job of recreating it. It's pure entertainment, intreaguing and no doubt somewhere a little controversial. Often it shows someone somewhere, in authority, not having done their job quiet right. The last was the Alaska Airlines MD8X??? where maintenance procedures were at fault. There was a finger to point and a target.
Surely, a good investigative reporter could make a fine program into the flight crew lifestyle problem. If nothing else it would explode the myth of overpaid underworked prema donnas lying on sun kissed beaches interupting their leisure time with occaisional bouts of work; which is any case is hours of boredom started and finsihed with seconds of terror.
Isn't it?
If the MP & MEP route is not proving successful, there might be another.
Recently, and I can't remember his name or the case in question, but the chairman of the famous 'Health & Safety at work Executive' was getting hot under the collar about the consequences of people being overworked and overstressed in certain industiries. I think teachers and health workers were among them. He was going into action! He even specualted on the cost to the country of the loss in productive days due to sickness. (I wonder what the total % sick leave is in the airline world; flight crews not office staff/)
Surely we can get more from the HSE than being made to look like 2 legged canaries every time we go to work.
Once again, though, I have no faith in BALPA, the ECA (if it still exists) or any other of the pilot associations. There were decrees made by the EU commission more than 10 years ago, that public transport had to introduce compensation measures for its employees until the could, very shortly, impliment improvements in working conditions similar to those enjoyed by ground personel in other industries. This edict has been totally ignored and the pilot bodies, and authorities, have done sweet fanny adam about it. Get a copy of that EU commission edict and shove it under the correct noses. They will soon be out of joint and maybe something will happen.
However, with all the blah blah that has been on here in the past 2 years, Times reporters and all, how come it still not yet in the public demain? Panorama would love it. When an a/c crashes Discovery channel does a great job of recreating it. It's pure entertainment, intreaguing and no doubt somewhere a little controversial. Often it shows someone somewhere, in authority, not having done their job quiet right. The last was the Alaska Airlines MD8X??? where maintenance procedures were at fault. There was a finger to point and a target.
Surely, a good investigative reporter could make a fine program into the flight crew lifestyle problem. If nothing else it would explode the myth of overpaid underworked prema donnas lying on sun kissed beaches interupting their leisure time with occaisional bouts of work; which is any case is hours of boredom started and finsihed with seconds of terror.
Isn't it?
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 297
Likes: 0
From: The Far Side
Hapzim,
You could, of course, take the horses a*** approach, and announce that if they do what we fear, we shall immediately seek a law increasing the allowable blood alcohol level for flight crew that affords a similar degree of safety.
This would only be logical since a degraded level of safety is clearly perfectly acceptable to them.
And I forgot to mention that even in this little third-world island ,we have an antique law (probably UK heritage from the 1930s) that prohibits truck drivers from more than 10 hours driving duty in any one day. I have a suspicion that the haulage industry in the EU is probably more restricted than the aviation industry. Anyone know the facts?
You could, of course, take the horses a*** approach, and announce that if they do what we fear, we shall immediately seek a law increasing the allowable blood alcohol level for flight crew that affords a similar degree of safety.
This would only be logical since a degraded level of safety is clearly perfectly acceptable to them.
And I forgot to mention that even in this little third-world island ,we have an antique law (probably UK heritage from the 1930s) that prohibits truck drivers from more than 10 hours driving duty in any one day. I have a suspicion that the haulage industry in the EU is probably more restricted than the aviation industry. Anyone know the facts?
I've only made a few posts so I don't feel the need to order a Personal Title and help support PPRuNe
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Some pics of the dedicated few who got off their backsides and demonstrated in Luxemburg. Shame on the 'silent [sic] majority' who whinge on here.
http://tomwag.com/olinger/Gallery/Eu...ciation?page=1
At least Balpa, together with the ECA have been trying to do something about it. The few dedicated members who actually attended managed to catch the medias attention. Apparently five member states asked for the issue to be deferred as there was not the necessary consensus. Not a victory but at least another chance to get the issue researched properly.
Click here for more information on the campaign being run by Balpa. I just wait for the usual Balpa detractors to try their usual poo pooing without any alternative suggestions.
http://tomwag.com/olinger/Gallery/Eu...ciation?page=1
At least Balpa, together with the ECA have been trying to do something about it. The few dedicated members who actually attended managed to catch the medias attention. Apparently five member states asked for the issue to be deferred as there was not the necessary consensus. Not a victory but at least another chance to get the issue researched properly.
Click here for more information on the campaign being run by Balpa. I just wait for the usual Balpa detractors to try their usual poo pooing without any alternative suggestions.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
From: uk
From the BA Intranet:
Pilots block plans for longer working hours
European airline pilots have snatched a victory in a campaign against moves to increase their working hours, reported The Guardian.
Transport ministers from the EU's 25-member states unexpectedly rejected plans to raise the maximum length of a shift in the cockpit from 12 to 14 hours and to cut rest times between flights.
Britain's transport secretary, Alistair Darling, favoured the change but was outflanked by five other countries, which successfully argued for a rethink at a meeting in Luxembourg.
Airlines were strongly in favour of the proposals, on the grounds they needed common regulations in order to compete fairly.
But pilots threatened to disrupt flights if airlines adopted the new regulations.
The UK pilots' union, Balpa, cited a study of 55 fatal accidents by the US federal aviation authority which concluded that crews were six times more likely to crash after 13 hours on the flightdeck.
More than 100 pilots from 20 countries demonstrated outside the ministers' meeting. The plans will be sent back to a committee for amendment.
The proposal was drawn up by the European parliament's transport committee, which was chaired by the British MEP Brian Simpson - who lost his seat in Thursday's election.
Pilots block plans for longer working hours
European airline pilots have snatched a victory in a campaign against moves to increase their working hours, reported The Guardian.
Transport ministers from the EU's 25-member states unexpectedly rejected plans to raise the maximum length of a shift in the cockpit from 12 to 14 hours and to cut rest times between flights.
Britain's transport secretary, Alistair Darling, favoured the change but was outflanked by five other countries, which successfully argued for a rethink at a meeting in Luxembourg.
Airlines were strongly in favour of the proposals, on the grounds they needed common regulations in order to compete fairly.
But pilots threatened to disrupt flights if airlines adopted the new regulations.
The UK pilots' union, Balpa, cited a study of 55 fatal accidents by the US federal aviation authority which concluded that crews were six times more likely to crash after 13 hours on the flightdeck.
More than 100 pilots from 20 countries demonstrated outside the ministers' meeting. The plans will be sent back to a committee for amendment.
The proposal was drawn up by the European parliament's transport committee, which was chaired by the British MEP Brian Simpson - who lost his seat in Thursday's election.