CitiExpress Lose Pilots!!
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CitiExpress Lose Pilots!!
Well it seems that after FSAS 1 and now 2 that CitiExpress pilots have finally had enough and decided to vote with their feet. I heard recently that 5 pilots resigned last week and rumour has it that more are on the way.Undoubtedly the company don't need them anyway as they are getting rid of all the turboprops and appear to have a bit of a surplus at the minute, but is this the start of a lot of pissed of pilots starting to take advantage of a recovering job market.
If it does boom i dread to think what will happen!!
But do they care? Probably couldn't give a stuff.
Onward and Upward chaps!
If it does boom i dread to think what will happen!!
But do they care? Probably couldn't give a stuff.
Onward and Upward chaps!
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M.Mouse
I think you will find that BA Citiexpress is not part of mainline BA in quite the way you imply!
No doubt others will set you straight.
I can tell you this though, BACE will soon have the best paid RJ captains in the country!
I think you will find that BA Citiexpress is not part of mainline BA in quite the way you imply!
No doubt others will set you straight.
I can tell you this though, BACE will soon have the best paid RJ captains in the country!
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Tandemrotor
Can you perhaps provide a little further information with regard to your last line of your posting.
Are you referring to BA mainline pilots flying the RJ or do you know something the rest of us at CitiExpress don't.
Can you perhaps provide a little further information with regard to your last line of your posting.
Are you referring to BA mainline pilots flying the RJ or do you know something the rest of us at CitiExpress don't.
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They (Mainline pilots) joined a company with a set of t+c's, we (BACE pilots) joined a company with a different set of t+c's. Let's not get into another us and them dingbat, if we don't like it we can join our illustrious recently departed friends at Easyjet or get on with the business of flying planes. Q.E.D.
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Dr A Head,
Its not as simple as that, you are never going to have a satisfactory working arrangement whilst one group of pilots working for the same company as another group are paid significantly higher salaries for the same job.
What I want to see more than anything else is a management team with some idea of where they want the company to go, not what bit of the company they can cut up and give away next.
Eastern meanwhile are laughing their aircraft fleet will double and they are considering the possibility of introducing BAe 146s later this year. Mr Liddiard may only be a non exec director but he is obviously having a large input into their expansion plans.
I have also read today that the introduction of BMI Baby at Cardiff has created a 46% increase in business already, how is it that in all the years BRAL and BACX flew from Cardiff they were unable to grow business to this degree, questions certainally need asking.
Its not as simple as that, you are never going to have a satisfactory working arrangement whilst one group of pilots working for the same company as another group are paid significantly higher salaries for the same job.
What I want to see more than anything else is a management team with some idea of where they want the company to go, not what bit of the company they can cut up and give away next.
Eastern meanwhile are laughing their aircraft fleet will double and they are considering the possibility of introducing BAe 146s later this year. Mr Liddiard may only be a non exec director but he is obviously having a large input into their expansion plans.
I have also read today that the introduction of BMI Baby at Cardiff has created a 46% increase in business already, how is it that in all the years BRAL and BACX flew from Cardiff they were unable to grow business to this degree, questions certainally need asking.
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Initially to stay "on thread", good luck to those lucky enough to be moving to a forward looking company. I'm sure you won't be the last especially with EASY expanding rapidly near and at more BACX bases !
Just to answer Amazon Man's point about CWL as someone directly involved. The reason we never managed to grow the CWL operation was a combination of NO ADVERTISING, HIGH FARES and the J41's reliability problems.
BMI have apparently created a vibrant buisiness at CWL, although that 46% rise should be taken with a pinch of salt as they gave away several thousand tickets, the main reason for this is ADVERTISING ! The good people of South Wales now know they have an airport and an airline with reasonable fares. I don't say Low Fares because we all know that this is a myth. However it is still possible to fly to EDI now for under £100 we were charging over £300 and using a J41. Even those that knew the service existed (not many as it was never really advertised) all thought it too expensive especially when GO brought their nice new 737s to BRS.
Even when the fares came down the J41s were by then so unreliable that the service became a joke. There was a period where the EDI and GLA flights were combined virtually every day !
The Embraer routes all did reasonable business even with the high fares being charged and when those were reduced passenger numbers increased to the point where it was even reported in BA news, although not advertised locally to any significant degree.
Had we had the capacity or foresight to put maybe one more 145 at CWL and advertised we'd have become a very profitable base. I'm not sure BMI will succeed long term with 737s as the business is not there once they have to start charging economic prices, but the 145 is the right tool for the job.
Oh yes and had Mr Evans and co ever thought to ask, the WDA would have given us as much money as the gave BMI in order to save the CWL base. But the BRS-NCL route (which is where one of the CWL a/c is going) in competition with EASY is BOUND to be more profitable than the CWL-CDG route ! NOT ! But there again those cities are both in ENGLAND aren't they. Good luck to those at GLA and EDI for the future unfortunately I think you're the wrong side of Hadrian's Wall.
Appologies for going off thread but the question was asked.
Just to answer Amazon Man's point about CWL as someone directly involved. The reason we never managed to grow the CWL operation was a combination of NO ADVERTISING, HIGH FARES and the J41's reliability problems.
BMI have apparently created a vibrant buisiness at CWL, although that 46% rise should be taken with a pinch of salt as they gave away several thousand tickets, the main reason for this is ADVERTISING ! The good people of South Wales now know they have an airport and an airline with reasonable fares. I don't say Low Fares because we all know that this is a myth. However it is still possible to fly to EDI now for under £100 we were charging over £300 and using a J41. Even those that knew the service existed (not many as it was never really advertised) all thought it too expensive especially when GO brought their nice new 737s to BRS.
Even when the fares came down the J41s were by then so unreliable that the service became a joke. There was a period where the EDI and GLA flights were combined virtually every day !
The Embraer routes all did reasonable business even with the high fares being charged and when those were reduced passenger numbers increased to the point where it was even reported in BA news, although not advertised locally to any significant degree.
Had we had the capacity or foresight to put maybe one more 145 at CWL and advertised we'd have become a very profitable base. I'm not sure BMI will succeed long term with 737s as the business is not there once they have to start charging economic prices, but the 145 is the right tool for the job.
Oh yes and had Mr Evans and co ever thought to ask, the WDA would have given us as much money as the gave BMI in order to save the CWL base. But the BRS-NCL route (which is where one of the CWL a/c is going) in competition with EASY is BOUND to be more profitable than the CWL-CDG route ! NOT ! But there again those cities are both in ENGLAND aren't they. Good luck to those at GLA and EDI for the future unfortunately I think you're the wrong side of Hadrian's Wall.
Appologies for going off thread but the question was asked.
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Resignations
I believe BACX actually helped guys in NCL to get interviews and sim checks with EZY and should in fact be commended if true.
However it does make one wander the criteria for recommendation to EZY by BACX..Good luck to the lucky few anyway. At least they can stay and operate at their home base!!!!
However it does make one wander the criteria for recommendation to EZY by BACX..Good luck to the lucky few anyway. At least they can stay and operate at their home base!!!!
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dear Mr Cheeky Visual,
you make some good and valid points there, however your argument that the J41 is/was unreliable is a little unfair.
On the company intranet, the TDR rates are as follows - averages for 2002:-
Emb 145 98.77%, BAe 146 98.32%, ATP 98.15%, J41 98.31%, Dash 8 98.67% (so the J41 is almost as reliable as the 146.)
As far as tech despatch was concerned our biggest
hang-up was lack of spares,especially more so once Bae in their
ultimate wisdom decided to cancel the J41 project and informed all the vendors that no more parts would be needed.
To return to the main thread,I wish those that are getting jobs elsewhere well in their new company (whomever it may be).
Its been fun knowing (and working) with you for the past 10 yrs,
and its a damn shame that things have ended this way.
you make some good and valid points there, however your argument that the J41 is/was unreliable is a little unfair.
On the company intranet, the TDR rates are as follows - averages for 2002:-
Emb 145 98.77%, BAe 146 98.32%, ATP 98.15%, J41 98.31%, Dash 8 98.67% (so the J41 is almost as reliable as the 146.)
As far as tech despatch was concerned our biggest
hang-up was lack of spares,especially more so once Bae in their
ultimate wisdom decided to cancel the J41 project and informed all the vendors that no more parts would be needed.
To return to the main thread,I wish those that are getting jobs elsewhere well in their new company (whomever it may be).
Its been fun knowing (and working) with you for the past 10 yrs,
and its a damn shame that things have ended this way.
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As I understand it, from the info that I got, was that BACX didn't arrange anything! The guy's got the 2 day assessment and were offered jobs on that.
They have left at short notice, but the bases that they were at were closing in a few months anyway.
General feeling from my colleagues is that there will be compulsary redundancies in about a year due to all the turboprops going.There's going to be too many crews as there is now!!
As BA have said to us that turboprop pilots are "Not good enough" I don't blame them.Good enough for the cadets to cut their teeth mind you! Good luck to them.
Progress eh! Don't you just love it!
They have left at short notice, but the bases that they were at were closing in a few months anyway.
General feeling from my colleagues is that there will be compulsary redundancies in about a year due to all the turboprops going.There's going to be too many crews as there is now!!
As BA have said to us that turboprop pilots are "Not good enough" I don't blame them.Good enough for the cadets to cut their teeth mind you! Good luck to them.
Progress eh! Don't you just love it!
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rj pay
not sure where u get your info about best paid rj pilots i have a friend whos just gone from skipper on dh8 with displacement pay to RJ and says its no better pay! iffy???
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How do BA have the nerve to say BACX TP guys are not good enough to fly main line?
As both airlines "fly under the same flag" , how would the paying punter feel upon hearing this???
BIT SAD BA ME FINKS
As both airlines "fly under the same flag" , how would the paying punter feel upon hearing this???
BIT SAD BA ME FINKS
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If i may pick up on the tp verse jet pilot thing
There is an industry wide attitude in this country vis avis the suitability of turbo prop pilots (or unsuitability) to fly jets.
Its just protectionism and the old style elitism that needs to be purged from the uk fir.I've been a victim of it, but lucky enough to get around it. I mean how could my 8000 hrs command on dash and fokkers etc possibly prepare me for the rigours of dividing by 8 and 3 and keeping my feet off the rudders,god only knows. the atp was good enough for ba as a training tool in the past. now it seems the only tools are the managers and dinosaurs.
flying jets is a piece of wee and i'd hire a tpdriver with a good provenance over some ex 250hr straight on jet nonce with a few thousand hours on type anytime.
a career of imitating other peoples decisions does not make you a good pilot, being a good pilot does that.
rant over
my sympathies to all of you who have only operated in uk companies, it doesnt (and isnt ) have to be like this
There is an industry wide attitude in this country vis avis the suitability of turbo prop pilots (or unsuitability) to fly jets.
Its just protectionism and the old style elitism that needs to be purged from the uk fir.I've been a victim of it, but lucky enough to get around it. I mean how could my 8000 hrs command on dash and fokkers etc possibly prepare me for the rigours of dividing by 8 and 3 and keeping my feet off the rudders,god only knows. the atp was good enough for ba as a training tool in the past. now it seems the only tools are the managers and dinosaurs.
flying jets is a piece of wee and i'd hire a tpdriver with a good provenance over some ex 250hr straight on jet nonce with a few thousand hours on type anytime.
a career of imitating other peoples decisions does not make you a good pilot, being a good pilot does that.
rant over
my sympathies to all of you who have only operated in uk companies, it doesnt (and isnt ) have to be like this
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As a TP driver who has re-located twice already for the company and now am being forced to re-locate back to Gla or the Iom, within six months of arriving at the expanding base that is Man, am I now to think I have no future with this company ?
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Good one Dick
Dick, spot on mate, best posting on this web site for many a month... all so very true... I even had a well known PPRuNe'r use the same tired excuse to me not too long ago. Until the higher level management of airlines in the UK get staffed by ex-turbo guys it will no doubt continue, as like all the best stereotypes, it has no basis in fact. 
BTW, the BA attitude to TP drivers is oh so typical of that excuse for an 'airline'.
BTW, the BA attitude to TP drivers is oh so typical of that excuse for an 'airline'.
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Well to be honest guys i've flown both and i really cannot see what all the fuss is about. I mean what is a tp? An a/c with a jet engine with a prop stuck to the front. The 145 is far easier to operate than the dash and in general the drills far easier and simpler. Moving on from the dash to the 145 was very easy and i do really feel sorry for anyone who hasn't had the chance to fly any of our tps. As for BA saying tp drivers are not good enough that is b*****s and makes no sense whatsoever. I mean how comes people straight of a piper are but tp drivers aren't??? I worked with the BA cadets in OATS and dont get me wrong some are great guys but as always you get some that are completelely s***t. As far as im concerned it makes no diff at all what you start on and what you move on. If your keen enough to work hard you can do any type rating and fly that a/c with no probs. Being a good pilot has nothing to do with what you fly but how you fly it.
My sincere sympathies to those who relocated here and there and everywhere and still cant find the light at the end of the tunnel .They have shown complete loyalty to the company and this is what they get back.....an..... youre not good enough...
Oh and something i completely forgot.. How comes the x-City Flyer tp pilots are good enough for BA??????
My sincere sympathies to those who relocated here and there and everywhere and still cant find the light at the end of the tunnel .They have shown complete loyalty to the company and this is what they get back.....an..... youre not good enough...
Oh and something i completely forgot.. How comes the x-City Flyer tp pilots are good enough for BA??????