Ryanair runway excursion
Well said!
Much mud-slinging is done in RyanAir's direction - for no real reason other than jealousy at their success. That is thoroughly unworthy of our profession......
Much mud-slinging is done in RyanAir's direction - for no real reason other than jealousy at their success. That is thoroughly unworthy of our profession......
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Whose name? I didn't see it.
Censored?
Anyhow, coupla points.
If it was a misjudged 180 then its the inevitable result of all the high speed taxiing FR are known for.
Maybe they'll learn from this one.
Nobody got hurt.
Please stop taxiing like lunatics, FR chaps and chapesses? You should know by now that the Piano Keys are always ice rinks in the wet.
MOL will still be rolling around in money after you've flushed your licence and career down the toilet trying to keep him happy with his ridiculous turnaround times. Stuff him!
The best driver I ever knew lost his job over a stupid incident like this one. Wise up.
Censored?
Anyhow, coupla points.
If it was a misjudged 180 then its the inevitable result of all the high speed taxiing FR are known for.
Maybe they'll learn from this one.
Nobody got hurt.
Please stop taxiing like lunatics, FR chaps and chapesses? You should know by now that the Piano Keys are always ice rinks in the wet.
MOL will still be rolling around in money after you've flushed your licence and career down the toilet trying to keep him happy with his ridiculous turnaround times. Stuff him!
The best driver I ever knew lost his job over a stupid incident like this one. Wise up.
Ridiculous turn round times? Or just efficient?
I flew back from Germany with FR recently; the inbound flight taxied at a totally normal pace onto chocks, the first passenger was out 104 seconds later and the first of the 107 outbound pax boarded 4 minutes after that. Bags off, bags on, pax brief given and we pushed back 20 minutes and 44 seconds after the ac had chocked in. But at no time was there any feeling of being rushed or hurried along.
I suspect that someone has looked carefully at all aspects of the operation, has identified where time was being wasted and has merely developed a slick operation. Compare that to those airlines where, after parking, there is an interminable wait for a jet way to be lowered. Then someone in a yellow coat with a squawking walkie-talkie turns up, wades slowly through the general declarations before permitting the SLF to disembark. Then there's a faff with the outbound flight because some business class punter has turned up late at the gate.....
No - I'm impressed with FR's style. "This is us. That's what you pay. You will need the booking number and acceptable photo ID. The gate closes at this time. Be there beforehand or you won't fly." Simple enough and clear enough. In flight the ac is kept tidy by the efforts of the cabin crew, so those no need for any cleaners to muck out the ac (have you seen the state that LH business class people leave the ac in, for example?). I don't particularly mind not having a specific seat number on a short trip - and again, it saves turn round time if the passengers just get in, find a seat and sit down.
Would I go back to paying around £50 extra for a Lufthansakaesebroetchen and a 'free' drink served at top-of-drop once the 'Someone else paid for my ticket' Class have been fawned over? Err, I don't think so...........
I flew back from Germany with FR recently; the inbound flight taxied at a totally normal pace onto chocks, the first passenger was out 104 seconds later and the first of the 107 outbound pax boarded 4 minutes after that. Bags off, bags on, pax brief given and we pushed back 20 minutes and 44 seconds after the ac had chocked in. But at no time was there any feeling of being rushed or hurried along.
I suspect that someone has looked carefully at all aspects of the operation, has identified where time was being wasted and has merely developed a slick operation. Compare that to those airlines where, after parking, there is an interminable wait for a jet way to be lowered. Then someone in a yellow coat with a squawking walkie-talkie turns up, wades slowly through the general declarations before permitting the SLF to disembark. Then there's a faff with the outbound flight because some business class punter has turned up late at the gate.....
No - I'm impressed with FR's style. "This is us. That's what you pay. You will need the booking number and acceptable photo ID. The gate closes at this time. Be there beforehand or you won't fly." Simple enough and clear enough. In flight the ac is kept tidy by the efforts of the cabin crew, so those no need for any cleaners to muck out the ac (have you seen the state that LH business class people leave the ac in, for example?). I don't particularly mind not having a specific seat number on a short trip - and again, it saves turn round time if the passengers just get in, find a seat and sit down.
Would I go back to paying around £50 extra for a Lufthansakaesebroetchen and a 'free' drink served at top-of-drop once the 'Someone else paid for my ticket' Class have been fawned over? Err, I don't think so...........
maxalt quote:
If it was a misjudged 180 then its the inevitable result of all the high speed taxiing FR are known for.
So the Britannia 767 that went into the mud at Luton a good few years ago (doing a 180), was the inevitable result of all the low speed taxying BAL are known for?
escort is obviously no expert, first they didnt make the turn at the end of the runway, because speed was a factor, yet it appears that the aircraft was making a 180 on a runway with a parallel taxiway, so a little clarification is needed
Land quote:
If the crew in question were at the correct speed over the threshold with serviceable brakes, would the incident have occurred? No.
Hmm.... please provide evidence that a: the aircraft was at an incorrect speed over the threshold, and b: the brakes were unservisable
This was a minor incident of which many similar have occurred previously see BAL above, and will occur again, it can happen to any operator for a whole variety of reasons, wonder if maxalt or Land will be so quick to comment in a similar vein if BA/Virgin or anyone else get stuck in the mud tomorrow? Perhaps they'd like to borrow my signature
If it was a misjudged 180 then its the inevitable result of all the high speed taxiing FR are known for.
So the Britannia 767 that went into the mud at Luton a good few years ago (doing a 180), was the inevitable result of all the low speed taxying BAL are known for?
escort is obviously no expert, first they didnt make the turn at the end of the runway, because speed was a factor, yet it appears that the aircraft was making a 180 on a runway with a parallel taxiway, so a little clarification is needed
Land quote:
If the crew in question were at the correct speed over the threshold with serviceable brakes, would the incident have occurred? No.
Hmm.... please provide evidence that a: the aircraft was at an incorrect speed over the threshold, and b: the brakes were unservisable
This was a minor incident of which many similar have occurred previously see BAL above, and will occur again, it can happen to any operator for a whole variety of reasons, wonder if maxalt or Land will be so quick to comment in a similar vein if BA/Virgin or anyone else get stuck in the mud tomorrow? Perhaps they'd like to borrow my signature
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Thank you Sick,
My initial thought after touchdown was that the runway must be very long given the speed we were going at.
There was no real feeling of slowing down until we approached the end of the runway when there was very heavy braking.
My initial thought after touchdown was that the runway must be very long given the speed we were going at.
There was no real feeling of slowing down until we approached the end of the runway when there was very heavy braking.
Last edited by escortmk2; 7th Dec 2002 at 13:09.
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BEagle are you a pilot or SLF?
If you were a pilot (I suspect not) you'd know that flight STDs are usually works of fiction created by marketing bods in an office somewhere. In the real world of aviation nothing runs on time all the time.
While FR do a great job of shaving time off turnarounds (congratulations) the requirement is that the 'saved' time is used for an extra rotation. Thus when things go unavoidably off the rails (e.g. ATC delays or WX) the operation starts to go badly awry very quickly. There is no 'fat' in the system to compensate for delay.
The result is that crews are put under enormous pressure to keep the show on the road by whatever means possible. You can pretend to yourself that this isn't the fact, or that FR don't taxi faster than anyone else, but I have friends in FR who say they feel pressured into rushing around more than they are comfortable with. It's that kind of operation, like it or not.
Your crack at me is silly because I already told you a good friend of mine lost his job through a fast taxiing incident. Who's in denial here?
The point I'm making is...I'm gonna be damned sure it will never happen to me because of high speed taxiing.
Brake failure is one thing.
Rushing is another.
If you were a pilot (I suspect not) you'd know that flight STDs are usually works of fiction created by marketing bods in an office somewhere. In the real world of aviation nothing runs on time all the time.
While FR do a great job of shaving time off turnarounds (congratulations) the requirement is that the 'saved' time is used for an extra rotation. Thus when things go unavoidably off the rails (e.g. ATC delays or WX) the operation starts to go badly awry very quickly. There is no 'fat' in the system to compensate for delay.
The result is that crews are put under enormous pressure to keep the show on the road by whatever means possible. You can pretend to yourself that this isn't the fact, or that FR don't taxi faster than anyone else, but I have friends in FR who say they feel pressured into rushing around more than they are comfortable with. It's that kind of operation, like it or not.
Your crack at me is silly because I already told you a good friend of mine lost his job through a fast taxiing incident. Who's in denial here?
The point I'm making is...I'm gonna be damned sure it will never happen to me because of high speed taxiing.
Brake failure is one thing.
Rushing is another.
maxalt - both.
I apologise if you thought that I was 'having a crack at you' - because there was no such intention. All I wanted to say was that on the flight I was referring to, all went very well. No rushing, fast taxiing or anything to raise the eyebrows over.
I reckon that some company chap has looked very carefully at all aspects of air transport operations and, having identified where time can be saved, has done so.
Good luck to the low-costs - and to UK regional airports!!
I apologise if you thought that I was 'having a crack at you' - because there was no such intention. All I wanted to say was that on the flight I was referring to, all went very well. No rushing, fast taxiing or anything to raise the eyebrows over.
I reckon that some company chap has looked very carefully at all aspects of air transport operations and, having identified where time can be saved, has done so.
Good luck to the low-costs - and to UK regional airports!!
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It is very difficult to see the end of the runway from the terminal in Charleroi and to to be able to see exactly what had happened to the aircraft at the far end of the runway when you are a passenger lining up at the other end is very impressive indeed!!
I am very glad that passengers are becoming such experts at flying aircraft, next time I have a tricky landing to accomplish I will call down the cabin and ask of tips of all the experts.
I AM A PILOT I dont know what happened and so will not comment as to why the real experts on the flight had this small incident.
PS I was watching a medical program about a heart transplant the other week and I real dont think the surgeon did a very good job with his stiching at the end, could have done far better myself.
As for ''had the crew been at the correct speed and with servicable brakes the accident wouldnt have happened''. Well I think we can bin the accident investigation since we have an expert who obviously knows what he is talking about right here on the forum, dont quote about things you know nothing about.
I am very glad that passengers are becoming such experts at flying aircraft, next time I have a tricky landing to accomplish I will call down the cabin and ask of tips of all the experts.
I AM A PILOT I dont know what happened and so will not comment as to why the real experts on the flight had this small incident.
PS I was watching a medical program about a heart transplant the other week and I real dont think the surgeon did a very good job with his stiching at the end, could have done far better myself.
As for ''had the crew been at the correct speed and with servicable brakes the accident wouldnt have happened''. Well I think we can bin the accident investigation since we have an expert who obviously knows what he is talking about right here on the forum, dont quote about things you know nothing about.
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Sick, escortmk2, and maxalt are the only ones on this thread talking sense. Between them, you'll get the reason behind this A/C sliding off into the mud.
Nicely kept out of the media though!
Do Ryannair have Ops Monitoring/Trend Analysis on their 800's? Oh hang on, on second thoughts, maybe it's better they didn't!!!!! Might lose them some precious seconds!!!
Slow down Guys/Gals!!!! It's just not worth it!!!!!!
Nicely kept out of the media though!
Do Ryannair have Ops Monitoring/Trend Analysis on their 800's? Oh hang on, on second thoughts, maybe it's better they didn't!!!!! Might lose them some precious seconds!!!
Slow down Guys/Gals!!!! It's just not worth it!!!!!!
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Reciprocal, ie the other end. If you were on the threshold of 25 they were on 07 or vica versa. I understand your meaning the reciprocal of the runway they landed on. I too wondered as to the logic of taking off towards an obstacle.
I am a pilot with probably much more experience of Charleroi than you my friend. As a fellow pilot I am surprised that you would speculate without knowing the facts of the matter.
This is an unfortunate incident that happens to all airlines, but as usual because its Ryanair people have to take a pop and scaremonger. When the results are know discuss it but until then leave the investigation to the investigators and just report the facts without the speculation.
I am a pilot with probably much more experience of Charleroi than you my friend. As a fellow pilot I am surprised that you would speculate without knowing the facts of the matter.
This is an unfortunate incident that happens to all airlines, but as usual because its Ryanair people have to take a pop and scaremonger. When the results are know discuss it but until then leave the investigation to the investigators and just report the facts without the speculation.
Last edited by batty; 8th Dec 2002 at 23:41.
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The aircraft landed deep and fast. the captain took control and tried to stop but couldn't ,then tried to turn off at the end and the aircraft ended up ten metres into the grass with the nosewheel 90 degrees off. FACT
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I understand that the britannia at LGW went off the runway onto a section of grass that had been "SPRAYED WITH TARMAC" as a temporary measure for expediting passage of maintenance vehicles. More details available on the AAIB site.
Guess he could be excused a little for that one!!
Guess he could be excused a little for that one!!
