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Missile fired at Israeli charter aircraft

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Missile fired at Israeli charter aircraft

Old 28th Nov 2002, 06:39
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Missile fired at Israeli charter aircraft

Haaretz
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Old 28th Nov 2002, 07:06
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Two missiles fired, both missed.....military or civil, an IR missile up the pipe, this must be the worst nightmare. Soon be carrying chaff and flares!!
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Old 28th Nov 2002, 07:13
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Two missiles fired at the Isreali aircraft and a bomb exploded at the hotel used by their crew according to Sky News. They also report that El Al have cacelled all international flights.
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Old 28th Nov 2002, 07:16
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According to the latest news, the a/c is continuing to Israel.

The point about chaff and flares may be a good one. How do you drivers ( without any military background ) feel about being suitably equipped ?

Just what the industry needs right now !
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Old 28th Nov 2002, 07:52
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Sounds like it is an Arkia 757-300. 260 pax on board so just a handful of free seats. Maybe the power of those RB211s was underestimated by the idiot who was firing the missile?

MG
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Old 28th Nov 2002, 07:56
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IF and right now it's a big IF the reports of this Attack! are correct were does this leave the industry?

There have been reports like this in the past but given the bombing at the hotel and the reports coming out of Israel I suppose we can give this story some more weight.

Jezz what next
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Old 28th Nov 2002, 08:11
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Well it seems bona fide. Arkia have had a spokesman who has confirmed that the aircraft was fired upon. Hopefully when the aircraft lands, in just over an hour, then we might be able to get more info!
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Old 28th Nov 2002, 08:41
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There was a thread on PPRuNe in the last few days about attacks by man portable missiles. Coincidence? I certainly hope so.

Am I looking at this too deeply or should we be more wary of subjects that are discussed in open forums?
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Old 28th Nov 2002, 10:08
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People have been firing missiles at airliners for years, this wasn't kicked off by a pprune thread!

However, I am willing to start 'Naked women in fields on final approach - and how to knock down an airliner with them' thread if you think it would be a worthwhile experiment.
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Old 28th Nov 2002, 10:11
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Reading between the lines, I get the impression this was an RPG attack, rather than missiles.

Reports that I've heard say it was just after take-off, you don't need the target that low for a missile. Also, they are now saying that the terrorists could have come across from Somalia, where RPG's are plentifull. I doubt that you could fire shoulder launched SAM's at such an undefended target and miss. Not the type of work usually associated with this crowd.

Thank god it did miss though.
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Old 28th Nov 2002, 10:44
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RPG?

But it does depend on the aspect of the shot. Even something crap like the SA7A, which is widely available, is unlikely to miss from a 6 o'clock shot. If fired from fwd of 9 o'clock it has a very low chance.... similarly Stinger1 and we all know the USA provided hundreds of those to the Taliban years ago.

A more sophisticated shoulder launched missle, Stinger2 or SA18...well, even the best flare programs have trouble stopping the kill.

The Washington Times (26Nov02) is reporting Al Queda arrests in Saudi for the recent SA7 attempted shoot down of an American Jet. In the same edition is an article detailing US Govt rumours of SA7 and Stinger SAMs being smuggled into the US.

www.washtimes.com/world/20020619-71518182.htm
www.washtimes.com/national/20020531-888741.htm

Interestingly these links, which worked yesterday, is no-longer avail. Maybe someone else will have more luck.




"Its a riddle wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma"
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Old 28th Nov 2002, 12:24
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As mentioned by Damien above, this isn't by any means the first missile vs airliner attack.

It has been taken seriously for a long time by, for instance the Saudi Royal family, who had ECM on their SP Jumbo years back, already.

The rest of the industry needs to wake up and realise that we are very much at war - just as in the old sailing clipper days, where civilian ships had to be armed.

It's getting on for open season again and with the money and weapons available to these goons - and the spotter positions (even with a mobile restaurant at ZRH - 3/4Mile final) - it is just a matter of time.
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Old 28th Nov 2002, 12:40
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Once saw a photo of a Skyvan in Angola which landed with a SAM7 round jammed in the No 1 engine tailpipe. The Gods were smiling on crew and pax that day.
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Old 28th Nov 2002, 13:13
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Here is a similar incident on an Air India

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ighlight=India

And before some one points out the obvious, yes I posted the original thread as I picked it up in the Indian media at that time.
Interesting that both the flights orginated in Kenya
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Old 28th Nov 2002, 14:34
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You're going to be popular with the spotters FEW CLOUDY !! They have to put up with enough kneejerk total nonsense in the name of security as it is. Let's be honest, with the right weapon (and Bin Liner's lot can afford them) they don't need to be anywhere near the airport perimeter. Five miles out will do fine. How do you plan to organise effective security for say a radius of 20 miles around all of the worlds' airports without increasing the price of flying by about 1000%?

In fact, come to think of it, spotters are probably the cheapest and most effective security you can have around an airport. They will soon notice anything suspicious going on. What airport managements need to do is encourage local spotters and give them a special telephone number to call as soon as they observe any suspicious activity. Now that would make a lot more sense to me.
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Old 28th Nov 2002, 15:11
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Aren't all El Al flights international? I think this has happened before, in any case.
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Old 28th Nov 2002, 16:31
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El Al seem to be back to normal ops. Referring to Bubbette's point, you are right about all El Al flight being International.
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Old 28th Nov 2002, 16:36
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Flypuppy the missile thread here was in response to an article published elsewhere on the web, and repeated on Usenet.
That article itself was about US intelligence warnings to airlines re: missiles. It's possible that they had picked up a whiff about this attack, but simple coincidence is most likely IMO.

BBC now reports missile casings found and two suspects apprehended.
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Old 28th Nov 2002, 17:13
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Very disturbing news, but entirely predictable. Its a case of when not if. This could be the death of inner city airports. I can name many many citys where you could pick em off with a heavy machine gun as they float majesticaly over 10 miles of suburban gardens.

I know that this may not be a popular thought but has anybody found out what these b@stards want? if its no meat on fridays or something stupid maybe we should pay up and they would allow us to get on with our lives because just like 11/9 when its been done once you we will never be able to travel in peace of mind again and another 10,000 airmen will be out of a job.
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Old 28th Nov 2002, 18:14
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C4 news showed pics of 2 discarded launchers found near scene. Commentary said SA-7 but looked more modern to my untrained eye. Certainly not the 'classic' RPG type launcher anyway.
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