KLMuk/Buzz vote on strike action
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I have seen a couple of news items relating to this strike. Seems strange that only Buzz is mentioned. Do the press people on this site not know the KLM connection.
I think the problem was that the Press Association story which ran on the wires the other day referred only to Buzz. PA feeds to just about every newsroom in the UK - most importantly the BBC - and sometimes oversights can get repeated. The disruption caused by a strike affecting KLMuk operations is much more significant from my point of view.
There was no vote on a split, and pilots did not vote in favour.
ACAS talks tomorrow (Monday) may bring a solution; fingers crossed.
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There has been no press release from BALPA;
This will only happen if the meeting with ACAS today (monday) breaks down with the company.
All BALPA has said to the press so far when questioned is " we can confirm we are in dispute with the company"
KLM and BUZZ are treating this seperate pilot workforce (KLMuk) with complete contempt, Mr F V Pallant is arrogant to the extreme, they would never get away with this at KLM mainline.
I believe Mr F V Pallant is modeling himself on M O' Leary, except this one will be far far worse.
This will only happen if the meeting with ACAS today (monday) breaks down with the company.
All BALPA has said to the press so far when questioned is " we can confirm we are in dispute with the company"
KLM and BUZZ are treating this seperate pilot workforce (KLMuk) with complete contempt, Mr F V Pallant is arrogant to the extreme, they would never get away with this at KLM mainline.
I believe Mr F V Pallant is modeling himself on M O' Leary, except this one will be far far worse.
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UNWISEOWL,
Are you a member of BALPA? If you are, then I don't think you are required to cross a picket line. If not then you might like to consider changing your Name to:- SCAB
I would not cross your picket line!
Are you a member of BALPA? If you are, then I don't think you are required to cross a picket line. If not then you might like to consider changing your Name to:- SCAB
I would not cross your picket line!
stilljustanothernumber
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Yes I am a member of BALPA! Please READ my previous posts: they mean exactly what they say. I hope very much that the KLMUK/BUZZ pilots do well out of the strike and would hate to be made to operate their flights. I will do everthing I can to, within the law, to avoid operating their flights. The fact is, I would be liable to dissmisal if I refused to operate any flight I'm rostered.
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ajamieson
Thanks for your response.
What BALPA said to you is correct as I understand it. However, by tonight this dispute will move to it's logical conclusion if todays meeting is not used to negotiate a settlement. Dates and times for strikes will then be issued to the company and to the press. I assume a detailed list of the issues will also be provided.
Thanks for your response.
What BALPA said to you is correct as I understand it. However, by tonight this dispute will move to it's logical conclusion if todays meeting is not used to negotiate a settlement. Dates and times for strikes will then be issued to the company and to the press. I assume a detailed list of the issues will also be provided.
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Only one source but a reliable one.
Hope this is not premature.
On the Dutch Union site (VNV) it is being reported in a newsflash that Monday night the two parties reached agreement. The deal will be put by BALPA to its members for a vote. BALPA is advising a vote for the agreement. Details are not known as of this time, but subjects in the agreement cover: pensions, salaries, and redundancy protection.
Regards, O.
On the Dutch Union site (VNV) it is being reported in a newsflash that Monday night the two parties reached agreement. The deal will be put by BALPA to its members for a vote. BALPA is advising a vote for the agreement. Details are not known as of this time, but subjects in the agreement cover: pensions, salaries, and redundancy protection.
Regards, O.
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Interesting Otterman. It is amazing that the VNV have got wind of the results of the ACAS meeting before any of the BALPA members! There has been no communique from the company council at all as of this morning...our company website has had over fifty people browsing this morning obviously looking for something from BALPA. Maybe there will be something later.
If an agreement has been reached then I would cautiously say that is a good thing. I say cautiously because we have all heard rumours from KLC offices that have said if we go on strike then they will wind up the blue operation....yeah right...very difficult under law. We take it for what is is...a threat. I just hope that BALPA have not been taken in by this and are not going to give us some half baked improvement in the agreement with the sword of damocles waving over our head.
If an agreement has been reached then I would cautiously say that is a good thing. I say cautiously because we have all heard rumours from KLC offices that have said if we go on strike then they will wind up the blue operation....yeah right...very difficult under law. We take it for what is is...a threat. I just hope that BALPA have not been taken in by this and are not going to give us some half baked improvement in the agreement with the sword of damocles waving over our head.
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The Strike is Off
The strike is off...suspended at least pending approval of the renegotiated agreement which was completed late last night at ACAS.
Broadly speaking the agreement made was favourable to the pilots. A considerable percentage increase in the originally offered pay deal and no loss of transfer rights when transferring between brands....keeping all increments etc.
Many more details will follow...this is just a snippet from a discussion with a CC member. A full package will be issued with a vote but the CC are fully recommending the acceptance of this deal. All strike action is off until the deal is ratified by the members.
Broadly speaking the agreement made was favourable to the pilots. A considerable percentage increase in the originally offered pay deal and no loss of transfer rights when transferring between brands....keeping all increments etc.
Many more details will follow...this is just a snippet from a discussion with a CC member. A full package will be issued with a vote but the CC are fully recommending the acceptance of this deal. All strike action is off until the deal is ratified by the members.
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A.Viator.. shut up! Good luck to you in your pastures new but stop writing selfrighteous posts justifying to yourself why you left!
Things have got considerably worse since 99. So much so I personnally will quit the business if I cannot gain some normality in my life, i.e snatch more than three days in nine at home with my kid`s, who at the moment are growing up without me! And or retain my terms and conditions if I have to work my "butt off" for Buzz while risking loosing my pension for the next twenty plus years of pay negotiations.
Anyway the F-27 was a great aeroplane! I know, when the **** hit`s the fan I will be able to draw on the hand flying skill`s I learnt flying this old lady of the skies. Will you be able too? I suspect you are no more than an "autopilot two" aviator, God help the public, ha!
Things have got considerably worse since 99. So much so I personnally will quit the business if I cannot gain some normality in my life, i.e snatch more than three days in nine at home with my kid`s, who at the moment are growing up without me! And or retain my terms and conditions if I have to work my "butt off" for Buzz while risking loosing my pension for the next twenty plus years of pay negotiations.
Anyway the F-27 was a great aeroplane! I know, when the **** hit`s the fan I will be able to draw on the hand flying skill`s I learnt flying this old lady of the skies. Will you be able too? I suspect you are no more than an "autopilot two" aviator, God help the public, ha!
Last edited by leftarmover; 20th Nov 2002 at 18:06.
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It did work!
A.viator, the threat of strike did work; an agreement has been made! My congratulations to the KLMuk pilots, who were brave enough to stand up to what was clearly a ridiculous management position. I look forward to (in about five years time) flying with those of you who have chosen the mainline option.
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Whoooa leftarmover
That's a bit strong isn't it? Go take a chill pill then re-read what A.Viator said. Lot of sense in what he says. Act in haste and repent in leisure. Sitting on the sidelines, without the stress it's easy for outsiders like us to see the wood for the trees, not so easy for you guys that are in the thick of it. I, like he does, sympathise with all concerned; his message was sympathetic but urging caution.
If you personally want to fall on your sword, that's up to you, but don't accept all of your peers to follow suit; they never do. Hopefully, you can find alternative gainful employment, as no doubt A.Viator did. That's his decision, and by the sounds of it, one which he doesn't regret. Hopefully, you will feel the same if you quit.
No-one really wins in these situations, just accept the fact that an airline is a corporate body which doesn't feel pain, humiliation, hurt or anything you can throw at it. Pilots, however, are mere mortals who do get hurt emotionally and physically and most importantly, financialy by what happens. The airline doesn't feel a thing emotionally, albeit you might by collective agreement cause it some financial discomfort; something it will weather in time.
I think an apology to A.Viator would be in order because your post was out of order. If you think I am being condescending, then I pity you, maybe you should find alternative employment. Pilots need to think rationally when faced with what might appear to be a confused and threatening situation. It is what you are trained to do.
A few spellos in the above, I notice. Forgive me if I don't edit to correct. The gist is there
That's a bit strong isn't it? Go take a chill pill then re-read what A.Viator said. Lot of sense in what he says. Act in haste and repent in leisure. Sitting on the sidelines, without the stress it's easy for outsiders like us to see the wood for the trees, not so easy for you guys that are in the thick of it. I, like he does, sympathise with all concerned; his message was sympathetic but urging caution.
If you personally want to fall on your sword, that's up to you, but don't accept all of your peers to follow suit; they never do. Hopefully, you can find alternative gainful employment, as no doubt A.Viator did. That's his decision, and by the sounds of it, one which he doesn't regret. Hopefully, you will feel the same if you quit.
No-one really wins in these situations, just accept the fact that an airline is a corporate body which doesn't feel pain, humiliation, hurt or anything you can throw at it. Pilots, however, are mere mortals who do get hurt emotionally and physically and most importantly, financialy by what happens. The airline doesn't feel a thing emotionally, albeit you might by collective agreement cause it some financial discomfort; something it will weather in time.
I think an apology to A.Viator would be in order because your post was out of order. If you think I am being condescending, then I pity you, maybe you should find alternative employment. Pilots need to think rationally when faced with what might appear to be a confused and threatening situation. It is what you are trained to do.
A few spellos in the above, I notice. Forgive me if I don't edit to correct. The gist is there
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Just for info but in 1999/2000, after the announcement, KLMuk lost about 25 % of it's pilot workforce to other operators.
This included a relatively large number of F100 Commanders under 40 years of age.
I would guess that very few are regretting their decision.
Incidentally, the impression I got was that the only people who had bad things to say about the F27 were the ones who couldn't fly it.
WP
This included a relatively large number of F100 Commanders under 40 years of age.
I would guess that very few are regretting their decision.
Incidentally, the impression I got was that the only people who had bad things to say about the F27 were the ones who couldn't fly it.
WP
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
A.Viator and Horatio. Read what is written BEFORE you burst into print. As of Monday night the strike threat is suspended. Owing to the stand that the pilots took, the management has come up with a deal which (details still to come) appears to fulfil most of the grievances the pilots have. Now we can work together again, everyone has come out better in the long run.
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Herod, may I respectfully suggest you do the same? I had read the information and I only burst into print, as you put it, because I felt that the response to A.viator's post was totally unwarranted, unprofessional and darn right rude!
As for the last post, what can I say?Hardly the balanced, reasoned, mature reactions one might expect from any aviation professional? That kind of attitude destroys any sympathy others may have in their collective plight, except most will recognise that these kind are always from the vocal minority that rarely represent the views of the silent majority. In their case, damned lucky they do still have a job, because with attitudes like that they would be lucky to get a job loading bags in the hold, let alone sitting in at the sharp end. Don't believe me?...go ask any Ops Director you know.
That's my last post on this thread, because I have better things to do with my time than fight with spoilt children.
As for the last post, what can I say?Hardly the balanced, reasoned, mature reactions one might expect from any aviation professional? That kind of attitude destroys any sympathy others may have in their collective plight, except most will recognise that these kind are always from the vocal minority that rarely represent the views of the silent majority. In their case, damned lucky they do still have a job, because with attitudes like that they would be lucky to get a job loading bags in the hold, let alone sitting in at the sharp end. Don't believe me?...go ask any Ops Director you know.
That's my last post on this thread, because I have better things to do with my time than fight with spoilt children.
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Horatio
You seem not to be taking in the information infront of you( a bit of a worry in this line of work). The point is that collective action in the last resort did achieve the required aim.
A massive amount of work to ensure a fair deal post split had been completely thown out, by a synical ceo triing to take advantage of weak crossboarder employment law. The only solution..... (fair, ethical or even common sense failed )cost him more money than he would save.
H...You seem to speak freely on subjects you obviously do not understand, not a trate to be encouraged in this profession.
As one of the (usually) silent majority, I'm afraid I have to agree with the previous assesment of your charicter.
Also don't know any real pilots who hate real aircraft...wrong line of work I'd say.
You seem not to be taking in the information infront of you( a bit of a worry in this line of work). The point is that collective action in the last resort did achieve the required aim.
A massive amount of work to ensure a fair deal post split had been completely thown out, by a synical ceo triing to take advantage of weak crossboarder employment law. The only solution..... (fair, ethical or even common sense failed )cost him more money than he would save.
H...You seem to speak freely on subjects you obviously do not understand, not a trate to be encouraged in this profession.
As one of the (usually) silent majority, I'm afraid I have to agree with the previous assesment of your charicter.
Also don't know any real pilots who hate real aircraft...wrong line of work I'd say.
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Hey Guys, take a chill pill.
We do take this all very seriously don't we? Can you not see that some posts are tongue in cheek?
Anyway much of the bitching over the last few posts would not have occurred had the relevant people read my post...the strike is off, niet, nada..
The new package is likely to be released to us tomorrow for a vote....the recomendation from the CC is that it is accepted and I suspect that it will be. The payrise could possibly be in our December pay packet we are told. Merry Christmas!
We do take this all very seriously don't we? Can you not see that some posts are tongue in cheek?
Anyway much of the bitching over the last few posts would not have occurred had the relevant people read my post...the strike is off, niet, nada..
The new package is likely to be released to us tomorrow for a vote....the recomendation from the CC is that it is accepted and I suspect that it will be. The payrise could possibly be in our December pay packet we are told. Merry Christmas!