EASYJET to scrap 6-on 3-off roster?
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A bit too 'conspiracy theory' there FlapsOne. If you ask rostering they will tell you that they don't have enough flexibilty in the 6 on 3 off and it's as simple as that. It's all to do with using the Carmen system in conjunction with AIMS, which they hope to have perfected by April. I believe they are looking at set blocks of working days i.e. 5 on 3 off, 6 on 2 off, 4 on 2 off. How this will work I'm not too sure but there maybe a way of planning ahead. With this also comes 3 or 4 requested days off a month. I would imagine that this is closer to how GO operate and may have something to do with Nick taking up his new post. It may not be all bad but we'll have to wait and see.
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workerant
I didn't mean anything as sinister. Poor choice of words by me perhaps.
I was simply trying to make the point that it seems some people will continue to post negative rumour after negative rumour, often based on pure fantasy, just to try and illicit a militant response from the readership.
If one rumour is dispelled, they just move on to something else equally emotive. It's often the same names over and over again.
We've waited this long, let's just sit it out until a deal is offered, think it through, vote on it and take it from there.
Any thoughts that Al Quaeda are involved in the discussions are, of course, purely rumour.
I didn't mean anything as sinister. Poor choice of words by me perhaps.
I was simply trying to make the point that it seems some people will continue to post negative rumour after negative rumour, often based on pure fantasy, just to try and illicit a militant response from the readership.
If one rumour is dispelled, they just move on to something else equally emotive. It's often the same names over and over again.
We've waited this long, let's just sit it out until a deal is offered, think it through, vote on it and take it from there.
Any thoughts that Al Quaeda are involved in the discussions are, of course, purely rumour.
Join Date: Jan 1999
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Atlantic-Coast,
Please could you explain in a bit more detail exactly how "line-bidding" works?
I'd much rather work the SouthWest system ("work hard, play hard") and get my 80 hours done in 14 days a month, not the 20 it takes at the moment. But despite EZY/GOE all claiming to be Southwest, this never seems to extend to the rostering. Or the pay and conditions for that matter.
Z
Please could you explain in a bit more detail exactly how "line-bidding" works?
I'd much rather work the SouthWest system ("work hard, play hard") and get my 80 hours done in 14 days a month, not the 20 it takes at the moment. But despite EZY/GOE all claiming to be Southwest, this never seems to extend to the rostering. Or the pay and conditions for that matter.
Z
Join Date: Feb 1999
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Well, I think anyone snivelling about losing a fixed 6/3 pattern where the company changes shifts frequently at will, against a slightly looser shift pattern, but one that is set in concrete (99% of the time) from the moment the roster is published, is very short sighted and selfish.
Why does anyone need to 'calaculate their days off this time next year to plan ahaead, when the Go rostering system includes requested days off, which are almost always accommodated.
I dont want to pick a fight, but I think a few people are being somewhat pig headed over a minor issue.
Why isnt this discussuion in the company forum anyway?
Why does anyone need to 'calaculate their days off this time next year to plan ahaead, when the Go rostering system includes requested days off, which are almost always accommodated.
I dont want to pick a fight, but I think a few people are being somewhat pig headed over a minor issue.
Why isnt this discussuion in the company forum anyway?
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Outof synch
Nice attitude!
When you have actually worked for Easyjet you might appreciate why people are concerned. How are you to know what will replace it, because here promises and agreements mean nothing.
You did pick a fight, and the reason is that a great many pilots do not consider this a 'minor issue' !
And I see you're the posting police too, nice.
Nice attitude!
When you have actually worked for Easyjet you might appreciate why people are concerned. How are you to know what will replace it, because here promises and agreements mean nothing.
You did pick a fight, and the reason is that a great many pilots do not consider this a 'minor issue' !
And I see you're the posting police too, nice.
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Few Cloudy,
SAS still has the 5 on 4 off system. Some (most) work that system, others work in a flex group. Same amount of days off in both groups of course. All those commuting to work are of course thrilled with the 5/4 system, but in the current situation at SAS (read deep sh**), one of the first things that SAS wants thrown out the window, is the 5/4 system. Too inflexible they say.
Then the pilots came up with the linebidding thing, and this is for
Atlantic Coast too,
A linebidding system called OPUS. I haven´t seen a pilot not willing to work in that system, but SAS hasn´t decided nothing yet on linebidding. We want it, but they don´t know if they´ll let us have it yet. Working on it!
SAS still has the 5 on 4 off system. Some (most) work that system, others work in a flex group. Same amount of days off in both groups of course. All those commuting to work are of course thrilled with the 5/4 system, but in the current situation at SAS (read deep sh**), one of the first things that SAS wants thrown out the window, is the 5/4 system. Too inflexible they say.
Then the pilots came up with the linebidding thing, and this is for
Atlantic Coast too,
A linebidding system called OPUS. I haven´t seen a pilot not willing to work in that system, but SAS hasn´t decided nothing yet on linebidding. We want it, but they don´t know if they´ll let us have it yet. Working on it!
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outofsync........please do not post about matters of which you obviously have no experience . The 6/3 system is the ONLY bright light in the otherwise murky system under which we have to work. If that is lost you too will be the loser in the long run. I am sure that your rostering chap is as good as you all say however he can only work with the resources made available to him.
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Out of sync-thank you for introducing some new,interesting words into this forum.I am going to look up 'calaculate','discussuion' and 'ahaead'.You certainly have management levels of literacy or have you been drinking?
Cheers.
Cheers.
Join Date: Sep 2001
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outofsynch,
You clearly have no idea about the way things are currently running in easyJet - perhaps you should get a grown-up to check your posts in future.
You, my friend, are in for a major shock when you become an employee of this organisation!! That will wipe the smug, arrogant grin off your face.
You clearly have no idea about the way things are currently running in easyJet - perhaps you should get a grown-up to check your posts in future.
You, my friend, are in for a major shock when you become an employee of this organisation!! That will wipe the smug, arrogant grin off your face.
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ok ok Im sorry!
Well, I certainly livened up the discussion didn’t I ?? 
I do apologise to all, because I didn’t want to appear smug or arrogant.
The view I was unsuccessfully trying to promote, was that with NW becoming rostering manager, then that it is likely to be the end of the eJ rostering philosophy as it is/was. I believe he has already stated in the negotiations, that the 6/3 system just doesn’t work efficiently. Perhaps that is why the eJ rostering record is so bad?
From my point of view, I know how the Go system has worked, and that it has been the biggest reason that Go hasn’t had the pilot turnover that eJ has had. It seems to work very well, and I have never heard anyone complain about it.
I agree wholeheartedly, that I know nothing about what you guys have tolerated for so long, apart from what has been said on forums here. I think I do understand though, just how pisssed off you are, and no, I don’t want to experience that for myself!!!
Please don’t flame me. I was proved very wrong in the discussion about FLIDRAS in eJ. You may well prove me wrong this time too! But also, please believe that a new rostering system, MAY prove very successful, and satisfying for us all, even without the 6/3 pattern.
I do apologise to all, because I didn’t want to appear smug or arrogant.
The view I was unsuccessfully trying to promote, was that with NW becoming rostering manager, then that it is likely to be the end of the eJ rostering philosophy as it is/was. I believe he has already stated in the negotiations, that the 6/3 system just doesn’t work efficiently. Perhaps that is why the eJ rostering record is so bad?
From my point of view, I know how the Go system has worked, and that it has been the biggest reason that Go hasn’t had the pilot turnover that eJ has had. It seems to work very well, and I have never heard anyone complain about it.
I agree wholeheartedly, that I know nothing about what you guys have tolerated for so long, apart from what has been said on forums here. I think I do understand though, just how pisssed off you are, and no, I don’t want to experience that for myself!!!
Please don’t flame me. I was proved very wrong in the discussion about FLIDRAS in eJ. You may well prove me wrong this time too! But also, please believe that a new rostering system, MAY prove very successful, and satisfying for us all, even without the 6/3 pattern.
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6 On 3 Off or 7 On 2 Off
Our friend at Go has missed the point that it is the easyJet business model that is to adopted by the new easyJet.
So whoever does the roster will already have his hands tied with little room for original thought. I believe that the crewing ratio and aircraft utilisation rate along with the policy of keeping the working week as long as possible will ensure that the ace roster man from go will have little room for creativity. He can only produce a crew friendly roster if he is given the correct resources. At the moment everything is being cut to save money and add to the bottom line. easyJet are very unlikely to start spending to keep crews happy or to uphold the Go former head of rosterings reputation.
I think the former Go crews are going to have a hard lesson to learn.
So whoever does the roster will already have his hands tied with little room for original thought. I believe that the crewing ratio and aircraft utilisation rate along with the policy of keeping the working week as long as possible will ensure that the ace roster man from go will have little room for creativity. He can only produce a crew friendly roster if he is given the correct resources. At the moment everything is being cut to save money and add to the bottom line. easyJet are very unlikely to start spending to keep crews happy or to uphold the Go former head of rosterings reputation.
I think the former Go crews are going to have a hard lesson to learn.
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I think it goes a bit further than rostering patterns. It boils down to utilisation. easyJet seem to focus on aircraft utilisation whereas Go focussed (past tense!) on crew uitilisation. Certainly the later is best for crew life styles! easyJet operate night flights, mulit-day "trips", night stops - you can't get the roster stability with this kind of operation with out being well over crewed (my humbe opinion as a pilot!).
Be interesting to see which philosophy is more profitable. From looking at the document issued to shareholders when easyJet was buying Go it seems the easyJet way makes more money.
Be interesting to see which philosophy is more profitable. From looking at the document issued to shareholders when easyJet was buying Go it seems the easyJet way makes more money.
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I dont believe I have missed any point.
I also dont believe that Go has or had a higher crew/acft ratio than easyJet. Which ever way you look at it, you cant use any pilot for more that 900 hours each year. Can you? The 'Go model' is aimed at 880hour per year, so you cant get any more efficient than that.
The idea that the 'old' easyJet business model is indeed that for the 'new eJ, leaves me astounded; as the new eJ management have already agreed to the 'Go style' crewing based schedule for next summer. As I was told, eJ employed an independant advisor to answer this summers crewing disaster. They said the 'Go model' was best.
If the Go company was so poorly run and 'inefficient', then why did eJ shareholders pay £12.00 per share to buy Go, when their own were worth about a third of that?
I also dont believe that Go has or had a higher crew/acft ratio than easyJet. Which ever way you look at it, you cant use any pilot for more that 900 hours each year. Can you? The 'Go model' is aimed at 880hour per year, so you cant get any more efficient than that.
The idea that the 'old' easyJet business model is indeed that for the 'new eJ, leaves me astounded; as the new eJ management have already agreed to the 'Go style' crewing based schedule for next summer. As I was told, eJ employed an independant advisor to answer this summers crewing disaster. They said the 'Go model' was best.
If the Go company was so poorly run and 'inefficient', then why did eJ shareholders pay £12.00 per share to buy Go, when their own were worth about a third of that?
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To confirm what has already been said about about the shocking rostering at Easy, I have just recieved my December roster.
As always there is a week of 7 on, 2 off. (My 12th such week since April), and in that week of 7 consecutive days, I have one duty day of 14 hours 20 mins immediately followed by a duty day of 11 hours 10 mins,(A total of 9 sectors, one of which is positioning). I did not get a requested day off which was only the second one applied for this year, and I did not get first choice of days off over the holiday period.
I do know where sympathy is found in a dictionary! and NW from Go may be able to walk on water, but he has a bag of nails to sort out and I can see him packing it in within 6 months due to frustration. Easy management will not give him any room to manoevre, so come to Easy with your eyes open chaps.
As always there is a week of 7 on, 2 off. (My 12th such week since April), and in that week of 7 consecutive days, I have one duty day of 14 hours 20 mins immediately followed by a duty day of 11 hours 10 mins,(A total of 9 sectors, one of which is positioning). I did not get a requested day off which was only the second one applied for this year, and I did not get first choice of days off over the holiday period.
I do know where sympathy is found in a dictionary! and NW from Go may be able to walk on water, but he has a bag of nails to sort out and I can see him packing it in within 6 months due to frustration. Easy management will not give him any room to manoevre, so come to Easy with your eyes open chaps.
Last edited by Billy Whizz; 16th Nov 2002 at 21:19.
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Well if it is as bleak as you EZY guys make out I think Ill just shoot myself now.
Should we not at least let NW have a try at sorting it out before we condem it as a hopeless case ?
It may be the case that you guys are correct and nothing will change, but let us at least give it a chance ?
Should we not at least let NW have a try at sorting it out before we condem it as a hopeless case ?
It may be the case that you guys are correct and nothing will change, but let us at least give it a chance ?