Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Incident at BHX - 29 Oct 02

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Incident at BHX - 29 Oct 02

Old 30th Oct 2002, 23:36
  #21 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thumbs up

Best whishes to the crew. Good luck guys hope the company treat you fairly.

There but for the grace of God .................
kinsman is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2002, 23:45
  #22 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Where the Money Takes Me
Posts: 946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I can just imagine Fleet Captains interviewing their "young commanders" for ignoring ATC at BHX:

"I ignored the instructions cos I remember wiley ole 411A's comments numerous years ago!

Come on 411A, Tristar equipment? Is your memory adeqautely equipped to remember such times??

p.s. Mmmm. Tristars....you could get a job with NDR.....if you're not careful!!!!
LGW Vulture is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2002, 23:58
  #23 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: DXB
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I have to admit the closest I've ever come to going off the end of a rwy is at BHX in a 146. Captains landing spot on in the right place right speed etc etc, and asked to keep the speed up to vacate off Rwy15. VERY slippery indeed in the wet at that end and the antiskid was doing it's stuff. Could have been very embarrasing. Beware, I for one now slow down in good time at the end of 15. Surprised it hasn't happend before.
Stall Inducer is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2002, 02:50
  #24 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Well then LGWVulture assuming, (for the point of discussion) that you really are a Commander (yeah I know, a stretch), who is in charge of the aeroplane assigned to and signed for by you...you OR the ATC controller?

If you don't know, you certainly have no business at the pointy end.
411A is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2002, 07:10
  #25 (permalink)  

the lunatic fringe
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Everywhere
Age: 67
Posts: 618
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
411A is correct.

If ATC want you off the runway, and you are not happy with the situation, You go at your own pace. Simple as that.

More than that, every Chief Pilot, and Fleet Captain I have ever worked for would back that position up.

13 years based at BHX, and the far end of 15 is nasty when wet. ATC know it, and usually give you room to slowly make the exit. If the guy behind me has to go-around, well bad luck. Better that than going off the end. Then the Fleet Captain is going to give me a hard time.

L337 is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2002, 09:15
  #26 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: IOM
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I operate into BHX most days, and agree with most comments about the slippery nature of the 15 stopend. Trying to do the right thing and keep runway occupancy down to a minimum does lead to faster than normal taxispeeds, turning off at the end of 15 at anything other than a crawl when it's wet, can leave you feeling somewhat out of control.

I would advise anyone who has had an experience where their heart has been in their mouth wondering if they are actually going to be able to make that left turn at the end, to file an ASR and tick the MOR box (assuming that your reporting forms are the same as ours). A few reports in the CAA's in trays will probably get something done about it ( if there is nothing in the pipeline already).

They are impressive furrows in the grass there, I must say !!.
Capt. Horrendous is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2002, 09:32
  #27 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2000
Location: SW of BHX
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Without a doupt this incident will have the yellow-jacketed, Nanny state, job's worths of Birminghams management team running round yelling into walkie takies and closing taxyway's and about a third of the main r/w!
Jacksman is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2002, 10:34
  #28 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: 52N 20E
Posts: 713
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Just as well we are able to land short in our quadra puff and exit up 24.
Provided ATC let us of course.

The BHX Icerink should be relocated to the NEC/NIA and no longer remain at the threshold of 33.
Smokie is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2002, 12:35
  #29 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
And...just WHAT is wrong with Frankfurt?

Hey 411,
The bomb damage had obviously just been repaired when you went to Frankfurt !!
But its now wearing out!
major1 is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2002, 08:04
  #30 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Singapore
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Its the worst possible combination of a light aircraft and slippery runway, with plenty of residual thrust on those big motors.
I remember donkeys years ago in Newcastle, when a B727 positioning empty back to Manchester, slid off the contaminated taxiway. Red faces all around particularly when the same crew and aircraft repeated the entire scenario the following day, with exactly the same result. The airport director was pulling his hair out and jumping up and down, despite the fact that if they had cleared the rutted ice properly, it wouldn't have happened in the first place. The poor old training captain was dispatched to LGW for a spanking.
OZZY AIRBORNE is offline  
Old 3rd Nov 2002, 16:38
  #31 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: midlands
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
This thread seams to be predominately concerned with taxiing "expeditiously".
The concrete at the end of 15 at BHX is SO slippery when wet that EVEN at a WALKING PACE, control of the aircraft can be lost. I know, it happened to me, only max reverse stopped us sliding onto the grass....just, and I mean just.
We filed an ASR and thats the last I heard of it.
It is unacceptable that Birminghams Airport Authorities rely on local knowledge to stop accidents happening. The runway is unsafe and they should tell everyone that it is, until they spend the money to make it safe.
How about "Very Slippery When Wet" being promulgated by NOTAM until it is promulgated on the airfields charts?
ps Don't tell anyone, it's a secret.
hotnhi is offline  
Old 3rd Nov 2002, 19:37
  #32 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 1,930
Received 32 Likes on 9 Posts
Can only concur with those who have sympathy with the 767 crew who were not 'BHX regulars' and would not have been aware of the slippy concrete bit ( very technical language I know).

BHX has become a shambles over the last couple of years - nice
big piers for Emirates that re-created another cul-de-sac which
further delays push-backs and arrivals on stand ! Just how much
time and money is wasted tugging BA/Maersk aircraft around the
airfield every night ? Buses to de-plane pax which are adjacent
to the baggage reclaim area - yes I know its all to do with inbound and outbound pax not mixing but then again that does not appear to be a consideration at GLA/DUB/LGW to name but three.

So lets be both honest and radical.

1. Second runway - no chance.

2. New airport at Rugby - ditto.

3. Bin GA/Freight - off to Coventry please.

4. New low-cost terminal on old terminal site - yes Ryanair/Travel Lite - thats you.

5. RET for 15 if physically possible.

6. Shoot that bloody heron which sits just off the 15 threshold.

7. Use 06/24 for something useful - have'nt seen anything bigger
than a light single use it for ages.

8. Either get the monorail working or bin it.

9. Build a staff bus shelter for those who use the main terminal.

10. Oh yes more celebrities for the Alpha sale - why stop at Lulu - why not John Leslie/ Angus Deayton/ Graham Taylor/ Doug Ellis -
............................................................ ............................
beamer is offline  
Old 3rd Nov 2002, 20:53
  #33 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Lichfield UK
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
This thread has now made it onto the front page of the 'Sunday Mercury', a local down-market Sunday tabloid ( I buy it for the football) with the huge headline'


(alongside a teaser, 'Corrie star offered me sex')

In addition to the contents of the sawn-off web version, below, the two page expose goes on to quote extensively from postings on this site and from a PALPA spokesman who says that thay will ask their technical staff 'to examine any problems on Monday...We take these reports extremely seriously and we will be looking into them straight away.'

A BHX spokesman declined to comment except to say that, 'We fully comply with all CAA requirements.

RealFish is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2002, 17:04
  #34 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What does the executive jet "exploding" on takeoff have to do with the price of fish? That paragraph really has nothing to do with the rest of the "factual" report.

I didn't know ice on the wings caused aircraft to explode on takeoff!! I'll stick to flying during the summer then.
Panman is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2002, 11:28
  #35 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
For those of you unfamiliar with BHX ...

here's an idea of what they're talking about ...

DistantRumble is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2002, 16:58
  #36 (permalink)  

Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
Join Date: May 1999
Location: UK
Age: 75
Posts: 1,295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I understand that the AAIB have found that full brakes were applied however there was a reduction in retardation. i.e. runway slippery when wet.
I presume that they will now do something like resurface with tarmacadam &/or grove it.
sky9 is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2002, 11:39
  #37 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: midlands
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
At last. Notam:

R/W15-last 100m slippery when wet.

Well done BHX management, its only taken a near disaster plus countless weeks before you've admitted you've got a problem. Now get it Tarmaced.
hotnhi is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.