Goodwin to Resign from United; Chapter 11 Soon?
Don Quixote Impersonator
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Australia
Age: 77
Posts: 3,403
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm no international lawyer, but given the nature of the attack and that even the good guys didn't or couldn't see it coming in quite that form, surely the US Government has to enact a moratorium to stop the greedy and the bottom feeders in the legal profession 
from enriching themselves at the expense of the dead.
The "plan" was beyond the imagination and wildest fantasies of even the Tom Clancys of this world.
Assymetric War is what they are calling but it was an act of War nontheless.
OK so there may have some negligence and errors in some areas.
But surely this is a time for fixing the system rather than recrimination.
To tip any company into "bankruptcy" due a unilateral act of WAR by a third party simply defies common sense or justice.
OK so UA was a bit wobbly but so were the rest of them.
They like AA had the misfortune to be "chosen" as an implement of war. They don't therefore deserve to be trashed.
Maybe the scum should have been more democratic and shared the spoils amongst all the operators.
Time to start calling a digging implement a spade methinks.
from enriching themselves at the expense of the dead.The "plan" was beyond the imagination and wildest fantasies of even the Tom Clancys of this world.
Assymetric War is what they are calling but it was an act of War nontheless.
OK so there may have some negligence and errors in some areas.
But surely this is a time for fixing the system rather than recrimination.
To tip any company into "bankruptcy" due a unilateral act of WAR by a third party simply defies common sense or justice.
OK so UA was a bit wobbly but so were the rest of them.
They like AA had the misfortune to be "chosen" as an implement of war. They don't therefore deserve to be trashed.
Maybe the scum should have been more democratic and shared the spoils amongst all the operators.
Time to start calling a digging implement a spade methinks.
Guest
Posts: n/a
The problem is that both UA and AA were partially to blame for Tuesday's events - they didn't profile the hijackers and obviously if they had followed the rules then they would at least have subjected them to further scrutiny and may well have averted the entire incident.
If the US government is going to bail out its airlines, then it should also compensate those foreign carriers that were affected - otherwise, under WTO rules, it's illegal.
If the US government is going to bail out its airlines, then it should also compensate those foreign carriers that were affected - otherwise, under WTO rules, it's illegal.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: London England
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is their any possibilty that UA and AA will merge? I heard in another post that BA and VS could merge. Is this is stupid idea or what? 
I'm only 13 and want to be a pilot. Is it worth it? I am quite intelligent, no i'm not big headed, and i could do other things if i wasntd, but i love flying. What do real world pilots see urself in 15 years...
I'm only 13 and want to be a pilot. Is it worth it? I am quite intelligent, no i'm not big headed, and i could do other things if i wasntd, but i love flying. What do real world pilots see urself in 15 years...
Everything is under control.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 435
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RTJ, I'm no pilot, but I know a little about U.S. antitrust law. A UA and AA merger? Normally, no. The federal government would determine there would be a lack of competition at major markets which would increase prices unfairly to consumers. (Not that I necessarily agree, but that is what the government would say.) Long term, there would be no merger, in my view. Short term, the government might allow some combining of operations or sharing of information that would normally be considered in violation of antitrust law.
As for your piloting interests, the older I get, the more important I see it is to do what makes me happy. The money will follow. If you are very intrested in something and work hard, you can get it.
[ 15 September 2001: Message edited by: Eboy ]
As for your piloting interests, the older I get, the more important I see it is to do what makes me happy. The money will follow. If you are very intrested in something and work hard, you can get it.
[ 15 September 2001: Message edited by: Eboy ]
Union Goon
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 1,097
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the war on drugs profiling was used by the police so as to help them find drug smugglers.
On the New Jersey turnpike blacks and hispanics were getting arrested in larger number than whites, even though whites were a larger part of the population. This was found to be racial discrimination (of course the question never answered was what percentage of the CRIMINALs, not the general population were white) and the practice of racial profiling has become a hot button item. Furthermore, Arabics sued for discimination in the aftermath of the gulf war because more arabs were being searched than caucasions when boarding aircraft.
So as a result of those cases Profiling became a dirty word. I suspect that the pendulum may be about to swing the other way, but don't count on it.
Wino
On the New Jersey turnpike blacks and hispanics were getting arrested in larger number than whites, even though whites were a larger part of the population. This was found to be racial discrimination (of course the question never answered was what percentage of the CRIMINALs, not the general population were white) and the practice of racial profiling has become a hot button item. Furthermore, Arabics sued for discimination in the aftermath of the gulf war because more arabs were being searched than caucasions when boarding aircraft.
So as a result of those cases Profiling became a dirty word. I suspect that the pendulum may be about to swing the other way, but don't count on it.
Wino
Trash du Blanc
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: KBHM
Posts: 1,185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is not right to "profile" folks due to their ethnicity, but you can damn sure scrutinize someone if they pay cash for a one way ticket, just before departure, with no checked bags (as some of these terrorists did). You can also use an El Al-type questionaire to search for suspicious types.
RTJ: Do it, man! Get your degree first, though. And stick to cargo - the only way to fly, IMHO.
RTJ: Do it, man! Get your degree first, though. And stick to cargo - the only way to fly, IMHO.
Guest
Posts: n/a
One point here is to remember that, literally, thousands of airport employees do not pass through any form of security check on their way to work each day. They arrive at the airport car park and get on to a shuttle bus which oftentimes drives straight into the secure airport area. The only check required is possession of an airport employee ID card.
Excuse my "profiling" but it is quite apparent that many of these people are recent immigrants (very little english) and are from states which are not friendly to the USA. We know most of these people are perfectly reliable but this situation is an open door for terrorists to gain access to any aircraft they wish.
It does not challenge the intelligence to see that a planted employee could bring a bomb or firearm onto the airport and leave it a position where it can be retrieved later by a passenger terrorist accomplice.
There is as yet no proof of how the terrorists got their "weapons" onto the aircraft so speculation about airport or airline security failures is premature. In the US each aiport designs a security system which is then approved by the FAA as meeting its standards. In some cases individual airlines are responsible for TERMINAL access security which covers passengers, airport terminal employees and crew members. I have no idea about what type of pre-employment screening is needed for airport ground workers who do not go through this terminal security before they are issued with an ID card which allows them virtually unrestricted airport area access. Clearly this complicates the allocation of responsibility because hundreds of separate companies could be granting airport access to their various employees.
Ironically, the FAA's "window dressing" security checks prevent a crewmember from possessing any sort of weapon at work, the very situation which in this case could have saved 5,000 lives.
[ 15 September 2001: Message edited by: BOING ]
[ 15 September 2001: Message edited by: BOING ]
Excuse my "profiling" but it is quite apparent that many of these people are recent immigrants (very little english) and are from states which are not friendly to the USA. We know most of these people are perfectly reliable but this situation is an open door for terrorists to gain access to any aircraft they wish.
It does not challenge the intelligence to see that a planted employee could bring a bomb or firearm onto the airport and leave it a position where it can be retrieved later by a passenger terrorist accomplice.
There is as yet no proof of how the terrorists got their "weapons" onto the aircraft so speculation about airport or airline security failures is premature. In the US each aiport designs a security system which is then approved by the FAA as meeting its standards. In some cases individual airlines are responsible for TERMINAL access security which covers passengers, airport terminal employees and crew members. I have no idea about what type of pre-employment screening is needed for airport ground workers who do not go through this terminal security before they are issued with an ID card which allows them virtually unrestricted airport area access. Clearly this complicates the allocation of responsibility because hundreds of separate companies could be granting airport access to their various employees.
Ironically, the FAA's "window dressing" security checks prevent a crewmember from possessing any sort of weapon at work, the very situation which in this case could have saved 5,000 lives.
[ 15 September 2001: Message edited by: BOING ]
[ 15 September 2001: Message edited by: BOING ]
Guest
Posts: n/a
In the House of Representatives at the moment, there's a bill being shotgunned through which will make up to US$15 billion available for government loans and guarantees to businesses hit by this action - including in particular airlines.
However, it appears that there are a number of Representatives who object to rubber-stamping legislation of this magnitude without proper consideration - and they are blocking it. Click here for further information.
At the same time in the Senate, Missouri Republican Kit Bond is drafting legislation that would let the federal government assume liability for non-passenger-related damages faced by UAL Corp. and AMR Corp for Tuesday's events.
A Bond aide said the legislation would aim to protect the airlines from liability from claims ranging from non-passenger victims to loss of business and the destruction of the World Trade Center towers and damage to surrounding buildings. Such claims would have the potential to drive the carriers out of business, he said.
This legislation is also drawing fire from some senators who believe that if indeed the airlines were partly to blame for Tuesday's events, then they should be forced to pay for their negligence.
However, it appears that there are a number of Representatives who object to rubber-stamping legislation of this magnitude without proper consideration - and they are blocking it. Click here for further information.
At the same time in the Senate, Missouri Republican Kit Bond is drafting legislation that would let the federal government assume liability for non-passenger-related damages faced by UAL Corp. and AMR Corp for Tuesday's events.
A Bond aide said the legislation would aim to protect the airlines from liability from claims ranging from non-passenger victims to loss of business and the destruction of the World Trade Center towers and damage to surrounding buildings. Such claims would have the potential to drive the carriers out of business, he said.
This legislation is also drawing fire from some senators who believe that if indeed the airlines were partly to blame for Tuesday's events, then they should be forced to pay for their negligence.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: U.S.A
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guvnor they need to stick a nuke up your rear end and send you to the moon, because whatever you have been smoking has certainly sent you there already.
next you will be telling us that Ben laden has his own simulators.
You &^$$##@#@$!!!!
next you will be telling us that Ben laden has his own simulators.
You &^$$##@#@$!!!!
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Ballwin MO USA
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For HeloPlt,
Not to pee on your fire for feeling good about the fact that people died to justify your security suggestion, but you're barking up the wrong tree.
What would you have been able to find out had these surveillance measures been instituted?
This wasn't a highly skilled operation, it was based on Religious Fanatisism:
Equiptment? One twenty dollar watch, calling card and flight schedule per group.
You wanna know why the Intelligence community failed so completely?
No paper trail, no-body bought large amounts of nitrate based fertiliser, Diesel or heating oil, strange rentals of storage property or movement of rental vehicles across state lines.
Unless you come up with a : Religious Suicidal Maniac detector at your local airport, you're just P issing in the wind.
And you may consider that one doesn't need a shortlist of known terrorists, you need a shortlist of known Religious Zealots with the frightening possibility that those threatening the security of the United States number in their MILLIONS !
SO, In review, we need a Crazy Suicidal Idiot detector...or... we need to completely erradicate the threat ( For some idea of what that means read the part above" MILLIONS")
Or we need to withdraw our assistance to Israel ( Never happen of course but one must point out that THEY are the invader in Palestine and that they will always be the motivating force behind Arab terrorism in the US )
This will doubtlessly become another ' Vietnam' and also one of the saddest chapters in human history, begun, not closed , with the horrific, inhuman attack on the World Trade Center,
Not to pee on your fire for feeling good about the fact that people died to justify your security suggestion, but you're barking up the wrong tree.
What would you have been able to find out had these surveillance measures been instituted?
This wasn't a highly skilled operation, it was based on Religious Fanatisism:
Equiptment? One twenty dollar watch, calling card and flight schedule per group.
You wanna know why the Intelligence community failed so completely?
No paper trail, no-body bought large amounts of nitrate based fertiliser, Diesel or heating oil, strange rentals of storage property or movement of rental vehicles across state lines.
Unless you come up with a : Religious Suicidal Maniac detector at your local airport, you're just P issing in the wind.
And you may consider that one doesn't need a shortlist of known terrorists, you need a shortlist of known Religious Zealots with the frightening possibility that those threatening the security of the United States number in their MILLIONS !
SO, In review, we need a Crazy Suicidal Idiot detector...or... we need to completely erradicate the threat ( For some idea of what that means read the part above" MILLIONS")
Or we need to withdraw our assistance to Israel ( Never happen of course but one must point out that THEY are the invader in Palestine and that they will always be the motivating force behind Arab terrorism in the US )
This will doubtlessly become another ' Vietnam' and also one of the saddest chapters in human history, begun, not closed , with the horrific, inhuman attack on the World Trade Center,
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
if i was an investigator, the first person i would investigate would be the lunatic redneck above me, capt horation slap head, he is not to clever on the goings on in world politics with his extreme views!!
