Easyjet to buy 120 A319s, with options for another 120 a/c
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Rananim and doggie whatever,
Just one question....
Have either of you actually flown the airbus or undertaken an airbus conversion course?
A simple yes or no will suffice.
Or, given your comments on the reliability of the 'bus, are you licenced engineers with line experience of the airbus?
Again, yes or no?
If you have answered no to the above questions, then you cannot possibly be in a position to comment knowledgeably on the merits or otherwise of the airbus.
It is interesting that the vast majority of comments on this thread (and in 'real life') from people that are qualified on both the Boeing and Airbus, are of a positive nature. The only negative comments are from people like yourselves that are commenting from a position of ignorance.
Basing your arguments along the lines of 'I once saw an airbus break-down' or 'An airbus once crashed' could just as easily apply to any commercial airliner could it not?
May I politely suggest that you go and get a few thousand hours experience on the airbus and then come back and pontificate with some knowledge? People might then be more inclined to take note of your side of the discussion.
Just one question....
Have either of you actually flown the airbus or undertaken an airbus conversion course?
A simple yes or no will suffice.
Or, given your comments on the reliability of the 'bus, are you licenced engineers with line experience of the airbus?
Again, yes or no?
If you have answered no to the above questions, then you cannot possibly be in a position to comment knowledgeably on the merits or otherwise of the airbus.
It is interesting that the vast majority of comments on this thread (and in 'real life') from people that are qualified on both the Boeing and Airbus, are of a positive nature. The only negative comments are from people like yourselves that are commenting from a position of ignorance.
Basing your arguments along the lines of 'I once saw an airbus break-down' or 'An airbus once crashed' could just as easily apply to any commercial airliner could it not?
May I politely suggest that you go and get a few thousand hours experience on the airbus and then come back and pontificate with some knowledge? People might then be more inclined to take note of your side of the discussion.
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For what it’s worth I thought I would add my opinion. I have flown 4000 hours on the bus A340, A320/1 and currently have 500 hours on the B737-300 & 700, so I guess I’m sufficiently experienced to comment. I like the boeing but I’m afraid that the bus wins hands down, it is far superior. A lot of thought has gone into designing the flight deck, which is comfortable, a nice operating environment as well as being aesthetically pleasing.
Other items:
Autopilot remains engaged for a go-around single or dual operation
Cat 3B
Cat 3A for single engine
Dark cockpit concept
ECAM is good although can get confusing
Table to eat lunch (packed)
My only concern is towards the 156 config as we will need a minimum of 4 cabin crew, unless any concessions are available. If not then why not go for the A320 subject to operating costs over yields.
As far as reliability goes the bus is great if it’s kept flying, however most tech problems can be solved by a computer reset. I’ve only been sent home the once due to a nosewheel steering problem which is also fly-by-wire. I think the boeing pretty much holds its own here, not had too many probs.
The engineers I’ve spoken to prefer the bus because of its fault monitoring program which prints out the problem for the last sector after landing.
I hope the ACARS isn’t deactivated and to achieve the 20 min turnrounds then we will definitely need brake fans fitted. The boeing isn’t fitted with brake temp gauges (well we haven’t taken the option if it’s available) and because of this we have to check the brake cooling schedule after every landing – Don’t we?
MF32.5
Other items:
Autopilot remains engaged for a go-around single or dual operation
Cat 3B
Cat 3A for single engine
Dark cockpit concept
ECAM is good although can get confusing
Table to eat lunch (packed)
My only concern is towards the 156 config as we will need a minimum of 4 cabin crew, unless any concessions are available. If not then why not go for the A320 subject to operating costs over yields.
As far as reliability goes the bus is great if it’s kept flying, however most tech problems can be solved by a computer reset. I’ve only been sent home the once due to a nosewheel steering problem which is also fly-by-wire. I think the boeing pretty much holds its own here, not had too many probs.
The engineers I’ve spoken to prefer the bus because of its fault monitoring program which prints out the problem for the last sector after landing.
I hope the ACARS isn’t deactivated and to achieve the 20 min turnrounds then we will definitely need brake fans fitted. The boeing isn’t fitted with brake temp gauges (well we haven’t taken the option if it’s available) and because of this we have to check the brake cooling schedule after every landing – Don’t we?
MF32.5
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BITE
Yes, 4 overwing exits. They will use the centre section of the A320 to achieve this.
I understand that any new aircraft in 737 / A319 style (door at each corner, plus overwings) needs 4 overwings if it is to achieve more than 145 seats. Boeing overcame this on the -700 by redesigning the overwing exit to the pop-up type (used on all NG's).
Older types (-300's) are exempt from this 145 rule based on 'grandfather rights'.
Yes, 4 overwing exits. They will use the centre section of the A320 to achieve this.
I understand that any new aircraft in 737 / A319 style (door at each corner, plus overwings) needs 4 overwings if it is to achieve more than 145 seats. Boeing overcame this on the -700 by redesigning the overwing exit to the pop-up type (used on all NG's).
Older types (-300's) are exempt from this 145 rule based on 'grandfather rights'.
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Turnaround times 310 vs 737
I read in one of today's news reports that EZY think they can improve their turnarond times by 10% with the new 310's. I would be interested to hear your comments on what's so different about the Airbus as compared to the Boeing.
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The repercussions for the UK pilot market
Is it me? Or have you all missed the most important repercussion of Ezy ordering all these Airbus?
BA were slowly eeking out their 737's from the clutches of their 'greedy' pilots and planting Airbus' under their backsides. Result - No one to turn to in the Low Frills market when they retired early at 55.
But more importantly, with this order, EasyJet have provided an option to the many (400 rising to 800 in the next few years) Airbus pilots working for GB/BMed and BA Short Haul. So if 'the price isn't right', pilots can go elsewhere.
Congratulations EasyJet, you've solved the projected shortage of pilots with one fell swoop.
Marvellous.
BA were slowly eeking out their 737's from the clutches of their 'greedy' pilots and planting Airbus' under their backsides. Result - No one to turn to in the Low Frills market when they retired early at 55.
But more importantly, with this order, EasyJet have provided an option to the many (400 rising to 800 in the next few years) Airbus pilots working for GB/BMed and BA Short Haul. So if 'the price isn't right', pilots can go elsewhere.
Congratulations EasyJet, you've solved the projected shortage of pilots with one fell swoop.
Marvellous.
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Spot on Land ASAP, the 737 Pilot market is almost exhausted so this Bus deal opens up a whole new bunch of shiny guys/gals for Ezy. What of the 700 rated current crop? a looooooooooong wait for a bus rating!
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In our place the 'Ground Bus' has been cuasing headaches since day one. We operate a dying fleet of 733's and new A320/1. We have had no end of problems with getting them to go flying, so many small but no go probs not done us any good !
Given the choice again I think our lot would have gone NG B737.
Good for jobs I agree, but so is Ryanair getting B737-800's !
Given the choice again I think our lot would have gone NG B737.
Good for jobs I agree, but so is Ryanair getting B737-800's !
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no question...its a political purchase...the new europe is fighting back at mother aviation...regardless of attributes of airbus vs. boeing...easy is digging in deep and siding with its logical partner, the frech monster that, given time, will be the first to develop and sell non-piloted aircraft.
time will tell and, yes, in the near future pilots will have to "purchase" 320 type rating...they dont need " butt feeling "
anymore...airbus has written that out of the picture.
damned robot makers.
time will tell and, yes, in the near future pilots will have to "purchase" 320 type rating...they dont need " butt feeling "
anymore...airbus has written that out of the picture.
damned robot makers.
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Dewdrop,
I think the critical path is pax off & on so a few reasons for the faster turnround could be;
The wide aisle with a more or less constant aisle width of about 25 inches should allow people to pass during boarding and deplaning so if someone is loading an overhead stowage or deciding which seat to take, boarding will not stop for the duration. As far as I know, all UK operators have chosen the 19 inch aisle and wide seat up till now so this will new to the market. The aisle of a 737, particularly at the front and back in the taper, is really narrow.
The overhead stowages are huge so people will spend less time in the aisles looking for a space to put the bag.
Unlike the 737, all the main-deck doors on the A319 are the same size and opposite each other so boarding/deplaning through the rear left door will be faster on the A319 and any service crews can work faster through the big RHS doors.
On the lower deck, the doors open outwards, so will be blocked by errant bags less often. The 737-700/800 are nearly always loaded by belt loader, just like the bulk loaded Bus, and anyway you can unload/load both types off a flatbed if you really want to. Are easyJet taking the containers? - if yes that could speed turnrounds even more.
I think the critical path is pax off & on so a few reasons for the faster turnround could be;
The wide aisle with a more or less constant aisle width of about 25 inches should allow people to pass during boarding and deplaning so if someone is loading an overhead stowage or deciding which seat to take, boarding will not stop for the duration. As far as I know, all UK operators have chosen the 19 inch aisle and wide seat up till now so this will new to the market. The aisle of a 737, particularly at the front and back in the taper, is really narrow.
The overhead stowages are huge so people will spend less time in the aisles looking for a space to put the bag.
Unlike the 737, all the main-deck doors on the A319 are the same size and opposite each other so boarding/deplaning through the rear left door will be faster on the A319 and any service crews can work faster through the big RHS doors.
On the lower deck, the doors open outwards, so will be blocked by errant bags less often. The 737-700/800 are nearly always loaded by belt loader, just like the bulk loaded Bus, and anyway you can unload/load both types off a flatbed if you really want to. Are easyJet taking the containers? - if yes that could speed turnrounds even more.
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What are the odds wilber burroughs is an American? Never mind the cost, just buy political! Since when was the UK part of 'the new Europe'? Remind me again, is it the military wing of Boeing or Airbus which is spending vast sums developing UAVs?
Saman has it right about the pax being the critical issue.
Engineering has no problem turning round in less than 30 min, same for fuel and baggage. What tends to happen with pax is those who have heard that its safer down the back, load at the back and grab the rear seats blocking access. Those loading at the front want seats at the front for a quick getaway, again blocking access. If the 319 has wider aisles this would indeed help the situation.
The comment about the 4 overwing doors is interesting. I heard that the new centre section would also bring a slight stretch with it. Could this be enough to give the extra seat space?
Engineering has no problem turning round in less than 30 min, same for fuel and baggage. What tends to happen with pax is those who have heard that its safer down the back, load at the back and grab the rear seats blocking access. Those loading at the front want seats at the front for a quick getaway, again blocking access. If the 319 has wider aisles this would indeed help the situation.
The comment about the 4 overwing doors is interesting. I heard that the new centre section would also bring a slight stretch with it. Could this be enough to give the extra seat space?
simba101
QUOTE:From Simba101 p1 of this thread,
The money men don't like it - EZY shares currently 9.5p off on volume of nearly 90,000 shares.
Well simba perhaps you might like to monitor share price trends a little more accurately, todays' close at over £3.00 GBP up from about £2.40 GBP when you shot your bolt and posted. As a CEO of a major airline I would have imagined you would know better than to make such a rash analysis.
Perhaps you'd like to add FTSEsim2000 to your flight sim collection and get a bit more practise. You my old china are in danger of not even making the grade of being a 'Legend in your own front room', let alone a 'Legend in your lifetime'.
The money men don't like it - EZY shares currently 9.5p off on volume of nearly 90,000 shares.
Well simba perhaps you might like to monitor share price trends a little more accurately, todays' close at over £3.00 GBP up from about £2.40 GBP when you shot your bolt and posted. As a CEO of a major airline I would have imagined you would know better than to make such a rash analysis.
Perhaps you'd like to add FTSEsim2000 to your flight sim collection and get a bit more practise. You my old china are in danger of not even making the grade of being a 'Legend in your own front room', let alone a 'Legend in your lifetime'.
Glasgow's Gallus Gigolo .... PPRuNeing is like making love to a beautiful woman ... I take hours.
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Jumpseater, for a better picture of Simba's status as head of a major airline, check JB, and the thread on the return of the Guv..... entertaining reading! 
You're closer to the truth than you think...
You're closer to the truth than you think...
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Rob L
No stretch comes with the extra overwing exit. Airbus are simply using the A320 fuselage centre section on the A319 to get over the exit limit problem. The A319 is stuck at 145 pax with the single overwing but goes up way beyond the space limit with the double overwing.
No stretch comes with the extra overwing exit. Airbus are simply using the A320 fuselage centre section on the A319 to get over the exit limit problem. The A319 is stuck at 145 pax with the single overwing but goes up way beyond the space limit with the double overwing.
Last edited by saman; 19th Oct 2002 at 18:04.
